Seattle 1977, Bad recording or bad performance?

[KellyGirl]

Cool to see some love for this gig and for 1977!  Some rough parts, but overall I'm in the group 
that likes this Seattle show.  I wish the video and sound quality were better though.  

And what's with the camera person? They shot it more like Jimmy/Robert and 2 friends, with the
1 friend not so much.  It's a 4 man band and it views like some kind of Jimbert fan made event. 
There's some Bonzo thrown in, but the lack of Jonesy is awful. Need to see ALL the guys. 

And Jimmy's appearance in 1977? Oh boy hahaha  Sure I won't deny the fact with some of you
that if you dressed Jimbo up in a green turtleneck and tights he'd make a dandy looking green string
bean in '77. Still damn a lot photos of Jimmy during  this final American tour are sooo cool and really
fantastic of him. 

Maybe someday we could get something official from this tour.  A best of '77.  one entire lone show  
maybe is not plausible.  I guess too many no's coming from the band. And others...




 

[Nutrocker]

Like I always say, Seattle '77 is best appreciated through the AUDIENCE recording. Hell, watch the video with the sound turned down but with the audience recording playing- much better experience that way.

[rm2551]

Is this the one?

 

Was an awesome watch/listen. Always better with the vision - even if like someone mentioned before it was filmed by monkeys. LOL.

 

[IpMan]

^ Ok, now I am confused, dazed & confused to be accurate. A poster said earlier that Jimmy's solo in STH was "painful" to listen to???? Is that guy high or listening to another night by mistake? I went into that assuming the solo would be a combo of good & sticky fingered train wreck but instead I find the solo pretty damn clean, well executed, few repeated measures, and Jimmy fleet fingered in general. Start to finish Jimmy does a very good job on this song, not 77' good but very good period. How anyone could claim Jimmy did not execute the song, and in particular the solo, expertly has a very high bar indeed. I would put that solo almost on par with the MSG 73' solo, maybe a bit lower but not much. That song alone, untouched and unedited, is release worthy IMO and I do have a very high bar to meet.

[Jimmywalnutz]

I like the show but my audio recording was a mish mash of sources (I ripped it that way). I know a lot of people don't like buying boots but The GF Matrix is a tremendous improvement ( I'm a few titles away from having all the GF releases on CD)  . I never would have bought it otherwise. GF did a good job and it doesn't sound patched or EQ'd to death , a very enjoyable listen it's an excellent show  by 77 standards.

Maybe people see Seattle and the numbers 7 & 17 and expect something circa 73 or 75 ? Not on par those shows but it doesn't deserve the bad rap.

The video was a one watch and done for me. As was said, I would have liked to see more JPJ and Bonzo too

It's the first show after The Forum run. If memory serves Jimmy didn't go back to England. So couple the inevitable letdown from the last three shows with a few weeks in LA and IMO Jimmy played remarkably well!

Hi Nutrocker, What would be the definitive AUD recording? From the video ? Any help would be appreciated, real busy lately with a couple of jobs, besides who better to defer to  ?

I'd love to add a solid second matrix to my collection.

[Xolo1974]

17 hours ago, Nutrocker said:

Like I always say, Seattle '77 is best appreciated through the AUDIENCE recording. Hell, watch the video with the sound turned down but with the audience recording playing- much better experience that way.

Hi Nutrocker,

I have the Winston remaster of this show....is this the best non audience version out there....or is it Conquering Kingdome? I've not heard the audience version yet - what is the name of the boot you have?

Also, i'm sorry to veer off topic mate....but there was something else I was hoping you could help me out with. It's in relation to the Cleveland shows....if memory serves, I've read you on this forum stating the audience boots are best. I have the 'Dr Who' WR of the 27/4/77. There's that many versions of the 27 and 28 shows out there, it's so bloody confusing trying to figure out which is which. So i'm hoping you might point me in the right direction....which is the better show?.....which is best, audience or soundboard? which version of the sbd or aud boot(s) should I look out for?

I'm assuming you got to see LZ? Very jealous. I was born 3 months before they released PG....IMO the best album in the history of rock. Saw Page and Plant in '98 in Manchester UK. I was disappointed. The acoustics of the venue were crap! Listened to my Dad's vinyl LZII when I was 12 and haven't looked back since!

Appreciate any help mate....and apols to everyone else for going off topic.

 

 

 

[Ocean73]

[Nutrocker]

14 hours ago, Jimmywalnutz said:

Hi Nutrocker, What would be the definitive AUD recording? From the video ? Any help would be appreciated, real busy lately with a couple of jobs, besides who better to defer to  ?

I'd love to add a solid second matrix to my collection.

8 hours ago, Ocean73 said:

Ocean 73 is correct here, jimmywalnutz, except you want the "Bill B. Master" copy that circulates- the original "Floating On A Sea Of Screams" was a bad rip of the source discs. 

8 hours ago, Xolo1974 said:

Hi Nutrocker,

I have the Winston remaster of this show....is this the best non audience version out there....or is it Conquering Kingdome? I've not heard the audience version yet - what is the name of the boot you have?

Also, i'm sorry to veer off topic mate....but there was something else I was hoping you could help me out with. It's in relation to the Cleveland shows....if memory serves, I've read you on this forum stating the audience boots are best. I have the 'Dr Who' WR of the 27/4/77. There's that many versions of the 27 and 28 shows out there, it's so bloody confusing trying to figure out which is which. So i'm hoping you might point me in the right direction....which is the better show?.....which is best, audience or soundboard? which version of the sbd or aud boot(s) should I look out for?

I'm assuming you got to see LZ? Very jealous. I was born 3 months before they released PG....IMO the best album in the history of rock. Saw Page and Plant in '98 in Manchester UK. I was disappointed. The acoustics of the venue were crap! Listened to my Dad's vinyl LZII when I was 12 and haven't looked back since!

Appreciate any help mate....and apols to everyone else for going off topic.

 

 

 

As I said, Xolo, the "Bill B" audience source is the one to get. I believe in the last couple of years some bootleg company or another has lashed the source together as a "Silver" boot. If not, the good audience source is all over the 'net. 

RE: my remarks on the Cleveland shows...the first night, April 27 is only available as the Soundboard, the famous Destroyer recording. No audience source circulates for that show. The second night, April 28 is one of the best gigs of the entire '77 tour, available on a really good audience recording. No soundboard.

And, no, I was too young to see Zeppelin (though not by much). There are lots of lucky people here who did see them, though, chief among these lucky folks is forum member Strider, who saw a few of the L.A. '77 shows.

 

[Xolo1974]

58 minutes ago, Nutrocker said:

Ocean 73 is correct here, jimmywalnutz, except you want the "Bill B. Master" copy that circulates- the original "Floating On A Sea Of Screams" was a bad rip of the source discs. 

As I said, Xolo, the "Bill B" audience source is the one to get. I believe in the last couple of years some bootleg company or another has lashed the source together as a "Silver" boot. If not, the good audience source is all over the 'net. 

RE: my remarks on the Cleveland shows...the first night, April 27 is only available as the Soundboard, the famous Destroyer recording. No audience source circulates for that show. The second night, April 28 is one of the best gigs of the entire '77 tour, available on a really good audience recording. No soundboard.

And, no, I was too young to see Zeppelin (though not by much). There are lots of lucky people here who did see them, though, chief among these lucky folks is forum member Strider, who saw a few of the L.A. '77 shows.

 

Thanks Nutrocker....managed to quickly locate 'The Return of the Destroyer' (Live Remains) and 'Destroyer II' (Silver Rarities). Will compare the two for sound quality. If there's a better version could you let me know.

Thanks again for the tip - looking forward to listening

 

 

[Metta]

"sleeping sickness"

[Stairway is NOT stolen]

 

This changes what many people thought was an average night, into a brilliant night. Page is still playing well from LA. the only thing that lets the gig down is Plant's voice is a bit unstable. 

[Jimmywalnutz]

Thanks for the info ! Looking forward to getting that one and maybe I'll try 4/28 too. My collecting has been a bit redundant of late. Multiple SBD's (some AUD too) of my favorite shows.

Solid, well balanced AUD recordings would be a nice compliment to all the sound boards. Really nothing quite like a good audience recording much more ambient IMO. But Millard set the bar pretty high and whoever booted Copenhagen 79.

I just listened to the Seattle show again. Trying to find faults, some bumps and bruises and Plant is having a tough time but the show is real good. Not a classic by any means but hey it's Zeppelin !

Again, GF did a real nice job with this one , less is better sometimes.

[Nutrocker]

19 hours ago, Metta said:

"sleeping sickness"

Nah...Sleeping Sickness In Seattle is a typically sloppy Slumpy 'matrix'- strictly amateur hour stuff. Poor audience source (NOT the Bill B source) combined with a crappy version of the video soundtrack, going in and out of sync...fuck it- just get the Bill B audience source and be done with it.

11 hours ago, Jimmywalnutz said:

Thanks for the info ! Looking forward to getting that one and maybe I'll try 4/28 too.

4/28 is a must have for any '77 fan- it's one of the best, if not the best gig of the whole fuckin' tour!

[Jimmywalnutz]

Thank you. I have heard 4/28 in borderline "un listenable" quality. That's a bold statement and now I am driven . What would you say is the definitive version ? I'm real excited to add these two (Seattle Bill B. and 4/28/77 ? ).

  Promise, last time. Thank You again.

[KellyGirl]

I like your take Nutrocker on a lot of '77 stuff!  Some of these gigs it's very much the recording source and not
the bands performance.  It's one of those tours where if you dig, you can find some really great stuff.  I know for some
'77 just doesn't do much for them,  but eh that's quite alright,  we all like what we like eh! 

[Xolo1974]

51 minutes ago, KellyGirl said:

I like your take Nutrocker on a lot of '77 stuff!  Some of these gigs it's very much the recording source and not
the bands performance.  It's one of those tours where if you dig, you can find some really great stuff.  I know for some
'77 just doesn't do much for them,  but eh that's quite alright,  we all like what we like eh! 

Personally, I like it the best of all the tours. Sure, it was erratic....but I just really like the breadth of material that was played.

 

[BledZabbath]

I have the Pro-shot DVD of this show, I say its good.

[Stairway is NOT stolen]

My only real problem with the 77 tour is the lack of Presence songs. They should have done a Tea for One medley with SIBLY, and maybe limit the Drum and guitar solo down and perform Royal Orleans with For Your life 

[KellyGirl]

23 hours ago, Xolo1974 said:

Personally, I like it the best of all the tours. Sure, it was erratic....but I just really like the breadth of material that was played.

 

Hmm I haven't figured out what my favourite year is. Don't make me choose!! Bearded Jimmy, or Jimmy and his
ill fitting sweaters VS. dragon and poppies??  That's toooo hard. Haha  ah I'm just having some fun. I love
the early years, as much as the later years.  But.. ya know I do however, find myself searching out the '73 thru '77
gigs much more than what some  fans deem thy coveted better Jimmy playing era (1968-1972).  1977 is rough and
tumble, plagued with drugs flowing freely in camp Zep - Jimmy is all smacked out on smack, but I'm really  drawn to
listening to the '77 gigs right now. I'd rather listen  to some of the good '77 shows more so than say Royal Albert Hall
at the moment.

 

14 hours ago, BledZabbath said:

I have the Pro-shot DVD of this show, I say its good.

I like watching the footage of this show, but wow who filmed it? There are times when they should totally be 
on Jones, yet camera dude is like "Nah man zoom in on Page havin' a smoke. 40 years from now fans may
wanna know during this great bass playing of John Paul Jones - Jimmy Page was smoking a Marlboro cig."  
I shouldn't complain really....really any live footage of the band is welcomed.  

[Xolo1974]

11 hours ago, Stairway is NOT stolen said:

My only real problem with the 77 tour is the lack of Presence songs. They should have done a Tea for One medley with SIBLY, and maybe limit the Drum and guitar solo down and perform Royal Orleans with For Your life 

the length of the drum solos is fucked....as well as the inclusion of white summer. A longer acoustic set would have been much more welcome, in conjunction with 'tea for one' and 'for your life'. WTLB would also have been a brilliant addition. I actually quite enjoy the guitar solos though

[Stairway is NOT stolen]

1 hour ago, Xolo1974 said:

the length of the drum solos is fucked....as well as the inclusion of white summer. A longer acoustic set would have been much more welcome, in conjunction with 'tea for one' and 'for your life'. WTLB would also have been a brilliant addition. I actually quite enjoy the guitar solos though

I don't mind White Summer. Quite a lot of the one's I have heard are very good.

[IpMan]

Drum solo should have been aborted like Hitler's fetus, way too damn long. WS/BMS should also have been dropped in favor of either BYA or a BYA / Spanish Blood combo no more than 5min long. Guitar solo no more than five minutes of a combo of the bowing & maybe a snippet of Machine Gun or Voodoo Chile leading into the opening arpeggio of ALS. This would have given a good extra 45 - 60 minutes for extra tunes from PG & Presence such as a full Rover or Custard Pie, maybe even Night Flight; and add Hot's & RO as a medley plus drop SIBLY in favor of TFO. 

Highlight: That alternate, five minute laid back-ish WTLB from Coda could have easily been performed live either as is or done acoustic. Am I in the minority here or does that alternate WTLB kick some serious ass, I really love this arrangement.

[The Rover]

I've only watched some the concert, but from what I saw, it appears, to me, that Robert & Jimmy both have hangovers, of the "too much sex" kind of hangovers. I know you might say, "how can you know that ?" Well, I don't have specific proof, or specific side stories, but it's just what I "feel" in my gut. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it!

[KellyGirl]

4 hours ago, IpMan said:

Drum solo should have been aborted like Hitler's fetus, way too damn long. WS/BMS should also have been dropped in favor of either BYA or a BYA / Spanish Blood combo no more than 5min long. Guitar solo no more than five minutes of a combo of the bowing & maybe a snippet of Machine Gun or Voodoo Chile leading into the opening arpeggio of ALS. This would have given a good extra 45 - 60 minutes for extra tunes from PG & Presence such as a full Rover or Custard Pie, maybe even Night Flight; and add Hot's & RO as a medley plus drop SIBLY in favor of TFO. 

Highlight: That alternate, five minute laid back-ish WTLB from Coda could have easily been performed live either as is or done acoustic. Am I in the minority here or does that alternate WTLB kick some serious ass, I really love this arrangement.

I love both Since I've Been Loving You  and Tea For One,  but in 1977,  I would have liked a bit more representation
from Presence.  They already had Achilles,  so yes Tea for One  and possibly For Your Life  could have been added in.
And I'm game for some more Physical Graffiti  too!

I do wonder though, if Tea For One  would have had the potential of becoming way too dragged out.  It's lengthy
studio wise and with the tone of  the '77 shows,  there's no doubt they would've needed to trim the length of some
of the other stuff in the set or dropped something else completely in order to accommodate  it.  The accoustic set
had it's moments - but you could often hear the audience getting restless,  that along with Bonzo and Pages solos, 
some tweaking should've been done.  

When the Levee Breaks..?  Is that not studio heavy?  Seems to me that never worked out onstage.  Wish it did.
Great song! 

 

[Jimmywalnutz]

Wow the Seattle audience sounds very different than GF SBD, but enjoyable. Thank you.

22 minutes ago, KellyGirl said:

I love both Since I've Been Loving You  and Tea For One,  but in 1977,  I would have liked a bit more representation
from Presence.  They already had Achilles,  so yes Tea for One  and possibly For Your Life  could have been added in.
And I'm game for some more Physical Graffiti  too!


 

I never understood why Presence was so under represented on the 77 Tour. For Your Life would have been fantastic . Tea For One could have ended up being snoozer but maybe interspersing some of it in to SIBLY would have worked.

I love that song but by 77 it did very little for me. It could have used a makeover.

The pre album versions and up to 71 SIBLY was dynamic and for me after the " oh my tears they fell like rain" line was when you would think here it comes....some dirty guitar and powerful vocal adornments 

In 77, the decline of Robert's voice and Jimmy's playing made that point of the song have you thinking..... it's almost over.

PG is loaded with songs that I never understood why they NEVER played them live. Maybe they only wanted to play "new songs". To my knowledge, IMTOD, Kashmir, Trampled ,TYG etc. were not leftover from previous sessions .