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Matjaz1   

Yeah allright, the point is, he earned money from Zep songs! Well that is not a problem legally, so why not! Zep still got paid for it, but Randy California got nothing for Stairway!

And in my opinion quite rightly so, because the difference is big and because this song by Davy Graham from 1959, was before Randy and is actually closer to Stairway! I think Graham's version also makes it clear, why Randy was so quiet for so long!

Edited by Matjaz1

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JLee93   

^^^^^

My thoughts exactly haha. What a joke. Pretty desperate move if you ask me.

Edited by JLee93

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60blues   

Most people who are heavy into music know Cry Me A River, it is a popular and well known song in its own right....and to suggest it even remotely turned up in Stairway...??? Thanks for my laugh for the day.

All music is derivative....and that is not theft.

I get so annoyed when all this talk of thievery surfaces....

If the tables were turned.....and Taurus had become an iconic and best selling song of all time for Spirit would we even be having this conversation?

I think not...

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Strider   

More old news. What...has Mark Andes been living in a cave? As Drop Down pointed out, he played with Heart for years...a band that loves and played Led Zeppelin in concert and on many a tour bus, I would imagine. So I find it preposterous that he's just now noticing the similarity of the opening notes of "Stairway" to "Taurus".

So, not only is the lawsuit specious but it is way too long after the fact. What we have here is a classic "sharks smelling blood in the water" situation. These sleazy lawyers smell money to be made with these new remasters and they're circling.

I have lost all respect for Mark Andes. I hope the judge throws them out on their arse.

By the way, Stairway only uses a few notes from Taurus and even then, it's only the beginning of the song. The majority of the 8 minute song has nothing to do with Taurus.

Meanwhile, ZZ Top's "La Grange" uses the exact riff of Slim Harpo's "Shake Your Hips" throughout the song yet I never hear anybody complaining or suing ZZ Top.

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grasbo   

I seem to recall reading somewhere a long time ago(when Randy was alive)that he agreed that the opening notes were lifted from Taurus but Jimmy expanded on that theme and he (Randy)was ok with that because after that the two songs were completely different.Of course ,as mentioned above,this smells of money grabbing by Andes and I was actually surprised when he reckoned Randy was pissed off with Page because of what I had read was otherwise.May you sleep peacefullyRandy and ol Ed Cassidy.

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mah61   

A sad attempt to get attention get real they wish they could write or play anywhere near jimmy or robert

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Walter   

More old news. What...has Mark Andes been living in a cave? As Drop Down pointed out, he played with Heart for years...a band that loves and played Led Zeppelin in concert and on many a tour bus, I would imagine. So I find it preposterous that he's just now noticing the similarity of the opening notes of "Stairway" to "Taurus".

So, not only is the lawsuit specious but it is way too long after the fact. What we have here is a classic "sharks smelling blood in the water" situation. These sleazy lawyers smell money to be made with these new remasters and they're circling.

I have lost all respect for Mark Andes. I hope the judge throws them out on their arse.

By the way, Stairway only uses a few notes from Taurus and even then, it's only the beginning of the song. The majority of the 8 minute song has nothing to do with Taurus.

Meanwhile, ZZ Top's "La Grange" uses the exact riff of Slim Harpo's "Shake Your Hips" throughout the song yet I never hear anybody complaining or suing ZZ Top.

Jimmy should then turn around and file a suit against GnR for using 4 notes from "Stairway" in the song "Patience"....give me a f'in break! I've had 3 people stop me to ask me about this, knowing I'm such a Zep freak - I just shake my head. :slapface:

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Dandu   

Does anybody know where I can find a copy of the actual claim issued by Spirit's attorneys? I would be very interested in reading it.

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juxtiphi   

Jimmy should then turn around and file a suit against GnR for using 4 notes from "Stairway" in the song "Patience"....give me a f'in break! I've had 3 people stop me to ask me about this, knowing I'm such a Zep freak - I just shake my head. :slapface:

I am 48 years old and I have been defending Zeppelin since 1985. Its funny how a thousand bands have done the same thing (been inspired by a few notes and then wrote something completely different) but its only Zeppelin you hear about. People are just so damn stupid and have to have something to bash or they aren't happy. Its really like they have never heard another song that sounded similar to another one in their entire lives and in this case its like 4 notes for about 3 seconds. Plus!, the notes in question aren't even the crux of the song and Taurus sucks wind compared to Stairway which is why Stairway is so beloved by millions around the world and Taurus is an obscure song that no one outside of Spirit fans even know about.

This guy is a just a jealous idiot who wants to try and cash in on something ha had no part in ever!!

Edited by juxtiphi

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Hope this suit gets thrown out quickly- it's just ridiculous and such a shame they are timing it to pre-empt the Zep IV release. (God forbid something great happens in the Zeppelin airspace without controversy!) I agree with the opinion already out there that they really probably held back the suit not only because of the expense but because Taurus was likely inspired by Graham's "Cry Me a River" so was not completely original to begin with. Which no music is, anyway. Certainly many blues songs that Zep were inspired by were traditional, taken from spirituals and work songs, whose melody was often taken from the very old English/Scottish etc hymns brought over to America (sung by slaves at church sevices they were forced to attend). Hmm...since the original writer of some of these hymns could very well have been for all we know an old ancestor of Jimmy Page's maybe he should just get it over with and sue his own damn self ; ) Close that circle of madness for good.

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Strider   

Jimmy should then turn around and file a suit against GnR for using 4 notes from "Stairway" in the song "Patience"....give me a f'in break! I've had 3 people stop me to ask me about this, knowing I'm such a Zep freak - I just shake my head. :slapface:

Or they could sue Pearl Jam for "Given to Fly" nicking "Going to California".

I mean, ferchrissakes, if this is all it takes to warrant a lawsuit, the Rolling Stones should be forced to list Chuck Berry as songwriter on half their songs!

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You and I, and most people know "Stairway to Heaven" and "Taurus" don't sound exactly the same, however the amount of negative media coverage basically implying otherwise is quite saddening. What is even more disappointing is that many of these stories are distorting the previous cases. Factual errors abound, but because it's now out there in maintream media its almost impossible to correct.

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huw   

Today's obscure classical music term for you all to memorise & use is "Lament Bass".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lament_bass

Notice how many hundreds of years back the examples go.

Stairway & Taurus both use a standard (almost cliché) practice for harmonising a descending bass line under a minor chord, that has been around almost as long as harmony itself.

:)

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Mook   

These lawyers & the remaining members of Spirit have achieved their objective, the Youtube hits on Taurus will be thousands a day at the moment I'd imagine, album sales will be up on the back of it & when this case is thrown out of court they will all have made a tidy profit out of the publicity regardless.

A great bit of opportunism really.

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So the reason Randy California didn't do anything about this is because he "didn't have enough money to sue"? That's odd. It seems that if he had a strong case I'm pretty sure some attorney would have been willing to work on a contingency basis.

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Wolfman   

The sad part is that the damage has been done. Every Zep-Hater has more ammo and even some people who like them are questioning their credibility now. You should see the comments on some sites. The whole thing is a bad joke.

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grasbo   

As i mentioned in a previous post I am certain that Randy didn't have a problem with it.Andes is the one with the problem.I am sure the Randy California quote was in a Guitar Player mag from eons ago and have been searching the shed archives for the last week!

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Strider   

Today's obscure classical music term for you all to memorise & use is "Lament Bass".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lament_bass

Notice how many hundreds of years back the examples go.

Stairway & Taurus both use a standard (almost cliché) practice for harmonising a descending bass line under a minor chord, that has been around almost as long as harmony itself.

:)

Thank you, huw, for your musical knowledge. I knew it was a pattern I had heard before but I didn't know a name existed for it.

This is really sad...the internet and radio are now flooded with the ignorant inflated smears of Zep-haters and those who are too lazy to do any real research. So everyone just takes it as gospel now that all Zeppelin did was steal their songs from others.

I suppose it is both a blessing and a curse that Jimmy's appearance on the Tonight Show was pretaped before these lawsuit accusations were publicized. A blessing in that Jimmy was spared having to answer any questions about the lawsuit and having the focus of the Tonight Show spot shift from talking about the new remasters to defending these Stairway accusations.

But also a curse because if he was asked about the lawsuit it would have been a perfect opportunity to show the ignorant public how ridiculous these charges are. Jimmy could have played Davey Graham's "Cry Me a River" and pointed out how Spirit's "Taurus" borrows from it. He could have mentioned the "Lament Bass" pattern that has been used for centuries. He could point out any number of examples of Bob Dylan, Rolling Stones, ZZ Top, Eric Clapton, and others "borrowing" notes, chord patterns, and entire songs without giving credit.

And lawyers wonder why people hate them so.

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