Sleep just won't come...

[Susan Gibson]

Thank you all for the support and advice. I have finally gotten a good night's sleep and feel somewhat better. We will see a counselor to see if we have anything to salvage at this point. Not sure how that will go. But I have let his other girlfriend know about me and she has ousted him. Either we can fix it or we can't. If not I will have to sell or lose my house, which will most definitely suck. But I guess I will do whatever I have to do.

[lipslikecherries]

I am glad to know you're feeling a bit better. Best wishes to you.

[Strider]

Thank you all for the support and advice. I have finally gotten a good night's sleep and feel somewhat better. We will see a counselor to see if we have anything to salvage at this point. Not sure how that will go. But I have let his other girlfriend know about me and she has ousted him. Either we can fix it or we can't. If not I will have to sell or lose my house, which will most definitely suck. But I guess I will do whatever I have to do.

If it is your house, why should you have to lose it? You are the one kicking him out and since you are not married, he is not legally entitled to any of your property, right?

Glad you finally got some sleep. Scylla had the best advice...sometimes quiet is best. Scylla's entire post was solid gold. Good luck Susan.

[Susan Gibson]

If it is your house, why should you have to lose it? You are the one kicking him out and since you are not married, he is not legally entitled to any of your property, right?

Glad you finally got some sleep. Scylla had the best advice...sometimes quiet is best. Scylla's entire post was solid gold. Good luck Susan.

Just finished school in May so my loan payments will start in November. Just wouldn't be able to afford the house on my own. But if it comes down to it, yes I own the house (and pretty much everything else). That's really why I never got married. I always wanted to be in the advantageous position in the event of a break-up. Worked out well until I went back to school. But still not so bad. I know so many are in worse situations that I am, so I will try not to wallow in self-pity for too long. I have my health, a good job, my terminal degree, etc, etc.

[scylla]

We men are scum bags; at least my experience has been that and most of the guys I know. Men just think with their dicks and don't think about commitment. We generally just want sex when we want it and it is really difficult to get us to change, but it can happen. For example, you are a male who is damaged inside so you commit to one person early on because you believe it will give you some normalcy that you might be craving or missed out on as a child. Also, sometimes, a life changing event, like the birth of a child can cause that change or if you catch us later in life when the dick doesn’t work as well as it did early on in life. There is also that other type of male who is strongly attracted to religion for whatever reason who will commit to one person out of fear, fear that they will rot in some make believe hell or die alone or something. Also, if you are a male who was an only child, relationships can be really tough for those guys because they were brought up being the center of attention, so they think the rules don’t apply to them so they just keep fucking.

Generally speaking, when a woman is speaking, men are thinking in both of their heads ‘would I love to shag her’. If you are a male who is somewhat in shape, and somewhat decent looking, and somewhat healthy you are thinking of getting laid, and you don’t really care with who just so long as you can unload. Some women figure it out early on, and make a point of always being around there man so that he can have his sex, but a lot of women don’t get it, because they don’t believe it and of course a bunch of men will pretend it’s not true so they can look good in the eyes of their companion, but deep down inside, all men know they just want sex.

I am simultaneously very depressed by this, and thinking I should probably print it out and keep it in my wallet.

Really, though - when ANY woman is speaking? I mean, you don't find MOST women you meet attractive, surely? And do you really believe that there's no such thing as a man who settles down early in life without being "damaged", purely because he's in love?

I believe that the male sex drive is (usually) stronger and more insistent than the female. And less discriminating (that men want to shag a higher percentage of the women they meet than vice versa). And that (most) men are better able to separate sex and love. And that sex is always going to be very high on the list of What Men Want. But men want love too. (It seems to me that when they do fall in love, they seem to do it harder and faster than women). I know men basically always want a lot of sex, all the time. But do you really think that they can't be happy having lots of sex...with their wives?

[Pagefan55]

Try not to be depressed about it, Scylla. We're not all sex driven monsters.

Btw, your posts on this thread have been excellent.

[Maaike Roeleveld]

Thank you all for the support and advice. I have finally gotten a good night's sleep and feel somewhat better. We will see a counselor to see if we have anything to salvage at this point. Not sure how that will go. But I have let his other girlfriend know about me and she has ousted him. Either we can fix it or we can't. If not I will have to sell or lose my house, which will most definitely suck. But I guess I will do whatever I have to do.

Susan,

So sorry to read about your situation. I am glad you are feeling somewhat better, wish you all the strength you need to deal with this.

[Maaike Roeleveld]

Oh and scylla, also complements from me. Your posts here were great!

Maaike

[scylla]

Try not to be depressed about it, Scylla. We're not all sex driven monsters.

Btw, your posts on this thread have been excellent.

Sex-driven, I'm prepared to believe. (Everyone's sex-driven, but men more so). I mean, just from reading testimonies of female-to-male transsexuals, who all seem to say that the frequency and intensity (and, often, filthiness) of their sexual thoughts and feelings skyrockets as soon as they start the testosterone shots...it seems pretty clear. Seriously, I wouldn't swap places with a man. It sounds awful; beats me how you all get anything done. (Because you're all trying to impress the chicks, maybe). No, I don't doubt that the average man thinks about sex and is motivated by sex more than the average woman, and is more tormented by it if he doesn't get it. (There's plenty of sexually frustrated women around, but they never seem to do an Elliot Rodger). But no, I'm not yet prepared to write off all men as monsters. I think everyone wants to be loved, and the happiest man is one who's with a woman who he loves and fancies, and who he feels loves and fancies him, and who wants to have lots of sex with him. Feeling undesired is the killer. And really - trying to pick up a new woman every day or week or whatever? Assuming a chap isn't in the 0.001% of men who are absolutely having to beat them off with a stick all the time (very good-looking multimillionaire rock stars, that sort of thing), there must come a point where it gets exhausting.

Cheers!

[scylla]

Thank you all for the support and advice. I have finally gotten a good night's sleep and feel somewhat better. We will see a counselor to see if we have anything to salvage at this point. Not sure how that will go. But I have let his other girlfriend know about me and she has ousted him. Either we can fix it or we can't. If not I will have to sell or lose my house, which will most definitely suck. But I guess I will do whatever I have to do.

Tell me to sod off and mind my own business if you will, but... he managed to maintain the fiction of being single to this woman for five years? She never wanted to stay the night at his place? Or SEE his place? If it's any consolation at all, this other relationship sounds like it was pretty casual, even if it did go on a long time. But perhaps you don't mean all the cheating was with the one person.

If it doesn't work out, perhaps a roommate / lodger would help cover the bills? If you just finished school, you must know mature students who need a place and who you would have a lot in common with. You might enjoy the company too, if you haven't been used to being alone. They'd introduce you to their friends, you'd meet new people... could be cool. Once you've got a foot on the property ladder, it's a shame to fall off if there's any way of avoiding it, even if you have to sacrifice a little privacy for a few years.

[Charles J. White]

Hey, don't think all men are monsters because it's not the case. Sex is just the overarching thing that drives the overwhelming majority of healthy men from the time of puberty until we get older in life and the testosterone levels start to wane; at which point men like to act like ‘they see more clearly now’, when in reality they have changed physically which causes this new found ‘clarity’. Women think it’s a joke, but it really isn’t, men are motivated by sex. And the other rule in life, is that men are only as faithful as what opportunity they currently have. That's why athletes, rockstars, business people, and politicians cheat on their wives and girlfriends because they have all sorts of opportunity that presents itself so they cheat on their wives and girlfriends. I'm not saying it's cool by the way, it just happens.

[ScarletMacaw]

I'm a psychotherapist who works with men. I have probed their psyches. Most men want to fall in love and many do. Unfortunately many fall in love with the wrong woman, and thus end up in my office. But there are also many men who marry women they don't love. They also end up in my office. Men will stay married to someone they don't love because it's convenient, they enjoy being a father, etc. They will continue having sex with the woman whom they do not love. Many women are married to these men and don't even know it. Most of these men cheat and their wives are clueless about that too, except I'm finding that now in the internet age more cheaters are getting caught. Few women on the other hand, especially now that most women have careers, will stay married to someone they don't love.

Not all celebrities cheat on their wives; we just hear more about the ones who do. Everyone has opportunities to cheat. Many people, male and female, are sluts who will have sex with anyone regardless of marital status or anything else, so there are plenty of opportunities for cheating for most married people who wish to engage in this behavior. You don't have to be a rock star or a billionaire to cheat. You just have to have some basic physical attractiveness. Probably if you are really physically repulsive it might be difficult to find someone to have an affair with, but otherwise, it's easy. Especially in urban areas.

[Susan Gibson]

Tell me to sod off and mind my own business if you will, but... he managed to maintain the fiction of being single to this woman for five years? She never wanted to stay the night at his place? Or SEE his place? If it's any consolation at all, this other relationship sounds like it was pretty casual, even if it did go on a long time. But perhaps you don't mean all the cheating was with the one person.

If it doesn't work out, perhaps a roommate / lodger would help cover the bills? If you just finished school, you must know mature students who need a place and who you would have a lot in common with. You might enjoy the company too, if you haven't been used to being alone. They'd introduce you to their friends, you'd meet new people... could be cool. Once you've got a foot on the property ladder, it's a shame to fall off if there's any way of avoiding it, even if you have to sacrifice a little privacy for a few years.

In addition to the home we live in, we also have three rentals, one of which is empty. This is where she thought he lived.

Most of my schoolmates are married (I went back for my doctorate after 20 years). I've thought about a roommate. I can say that it is VERY hard to make these kinds of changes after being so used to my way of life after so many years. I would never have imagined being in this predicament. It's especially hard when I've had to concentrate so much on passing my boards, getting licensed, and starting a whole new career. It feels like I still take two steps back for every step forward. But such is life. I still just keep remembering that so many are worse off than I am and that, for as big as these problems seem when they occur, they're really trivial in the greater scheme of things.

[scylla]

I'm a psychotherapist who works with men. I have probed their psyches. Most men want to fall in love and many do. Unfortunately many fall in love with the wrong woman, and thus end up in my office. But there are also many men who marry women they don't love. They also end up in my office. Men will stay married to someone they don't love because it's convenient, they enjoy being a father, etc. They will continue having sex with the woman whom they do not love. Many women are married to these men and don't even know it. Most of these men cheat and their wives are clueless about that too, except I'm finding that now in the internet age more cheaters are getting caught. Few women on the other hand, especially now that most women have careers, will stay married to someone they don't love.

Not all celebrities cheat on their wives; we just hear more about the ones who do. Everyone has opportunities to cheat. Many people, male and female, are sluts who will have sex with anyone regardless of marital status or anything else, so there are plenty of opportunities for cheating for most married people who wish to engage in this behavior. You don't have to be a rock star or a billionaire to cheat. You just have to have some basic physical attractiveness. Probably if you are really physically repulsive it might be difficult to find someone to have an affair with, but otherwise, it's easy. Especially in urban areas.

Good post; understood and agreed on every point. But any thoughts on why they marry women they don't love (now that shotgun marriages are uncommon...)?

[ScarletMacaw]

Good post; understood and agreed on every point. But any thoughts on why they marry women they don't love (now that shotgun marriages are uncommon...)?

I don't think "shotgun" marriages are that uncommon. Right now I'm working with a male patient who got married because his girlfriend got pregnant and didn't want to have an abortion. You can't force someone to have an abortion. Once the baby's born you're the daddy, and either you deal with being an absentee father who has to send child support checks yet have little to no control over your child's upbringing, or you marry the woman or at least move in with her and that way at least you are part of the household and get to have some say so in how your kid is raised. Many men will choose the latter.

There are also men who have low self esteem and not much motivation and will marry the first attractive woman who shows an interest in them.

[Strider]

In addition to the home we live in, we also have three rentals, one of which is empty. This is where she thought he lived.

Most of my schoolmates are married (I went back for my doctorate after 20 years). I've thought about a roommate. I can say that it is VERY hard to make these kinds of changes after being so used to my way of life after so many years. I would never have imagined being in this predicament. It's especially hard when I've had to concentrate so much on passing my boards, getting licensed, and starting a whole new career. It feels like I still take two steps back for every step forward. But such is life. I still just keep remembering that so many are worse off than I am and that, for as big as these problems seem when they occur, they're really trivial in the greater scheme of things.

This thread is about Susan's heartbreak so I will refrain from jumping in about CJW's "men have sex on the brain" post.

Susan, I hope you give him the heave-ho. After 17 years I think counselling would be a waste of time...once a cheater, always a cheater. Besides, once the trust issue is broken, it is hard to ever get it back. You will always have that doubt in your mind and no relationship can survive once the trust is gone.

I am sure you will have some friends and family saying "give him another chance" and all that tommy-rot, but you deserve better. In fact, after 17 years with the lout, I say you deserve to be on your own for a while...give yourself some "ME time". Do the things you want to do, whenever you feel like doing them. If you spent 17 years with a man with no hint of a wedding, I am guessing that marriage and having kids is not a priority with you, so you certainly don't need a man for validation. Don't rush into a rebound relationship.

[Pagefan55]

This thread is about Susan's heartbreak so I will refrain from jumping in about CJW's "men have sex on the brain" post.

Susan, I hope you give him the heave-ho. After 17 years I think counselling would be a waste of time...once a cheater, always a cheater. Besides, once the trust issue is broken, it is hard to ever get it back. You will always have that doubt in your mind and no relationship can survive once the trust is gone.

I am sure you will have some friends and family saying "give him another chance" and all that tommy-rot, but you deserve better. In fact, after 17 years with the lout, I say you deserve to be on your own for a while...give yourself some "ME time". Do the things you want to do, whenever you feel like doing them. If you spent 17 years with a man with no hint of a wedding, I am guessing that marriage and having kids is not a priority with you, so you certainly don't need a man for validation. Don't rush into a rebound relationship.

Excellent advice, Strider