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Anyone think, regardless of the band's attempt to make a statement with the cover of Presence, that a darker or more mysterious album cover (At least to the senses of the public) would have affected how the music was perceived upon first release? It may sound shallow to think this way, but in those days, album covers were very important in aiding in the tone or feel of the album. Think about this. Most of us probably agree that Presence is a better album than ITTOD. Yet ITTOD has outsold Presence by at least 3 million in the U.S. alone. Both hit big upon initial release because it was Zeppelin, but ITTOD had radio friendly songs like All My Love and Fool in the Rain to aid in it's support. And it also had a cooler album cover. In the Evening, IMO, probably wouldn't have sounded any better with the Presence cover lol. Maybe I'm sounding really stupid, but I've always thought this helped it sell twice as much as Presence, even to this day. I can't help but think a really cool picture of the band on the front of Presence or another dark, mysterious image would have made Achilles Last Stand even more epic at the time, and Nobody's Fault but Mine even cooler at the time. But I really feel that For Your Life, Royal Orleans and Hots on for Nowhere would have never been seen as filler for so many years by so many critics and fans, had it had a previous style Zep cover.

I know I'm making way too much out of a picture but place it in it's proper 70s context.

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Anyone think, regardless of the band's attempt to make a statement with the cover of Presence, that a darker or more mysterious album cover (At least to the senses of the public) would have affected how the music was perceived upon first release? It may sound shallow to think this way, but in those days, album covers were very important in aiding in the tone or feel of the album. Think about this. Most of us probably agree that Presence is a better album than ITTOD. Yet ITTOD has outsold Presence by at least 3 million in the U.S. alone. Both hit big upon initial release because it was Zeppelin, but ITTOD had radio friendly songs like All My Love and Fool in the Rain to aid in it's support. And it also had a cooler album cover. In the Evening, IMO, probably wouldn't have sounded any better with the Presence cover lol. Maybe I'm sounding really stupid, but I've always thought this helped it sell twice as much as Presence, even to this day. I can't help but think a really cool picture of the band on the front of Presence or another dark, mysterious image would have made Achilles Last Stand even more epic at the time, and Nobody's Fault but Mine even cooler at the time. But I really feel that For Your Life, Royal Orleans and Hots on for Nowhere would have never been seen as filler for so many years by so many critics and fans, had it had a previous style Zep cover.

I know I'm making way too much out of a picture but place it in it's proper 70s context.

There is some truth in what you say, and if cover art played no roll in how the music is perceived and interpreted, then albums would have simply come in blank slip covers. There is no doubt that epic cover art affects my perception of the music. Presence is an arguably weak cover, and although the concept is great, the execution is average. Your observation is fair, except for ITTOD, which IMHO is the better album.

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There is some truth in what you say, and if cover art played no roll in how the music is perceived and interpreted, then albums would have simply come in blank slip covers. There is no doubt that epic cover art affects my perception of the music. Presence is an arguably weak cover, and although the concept is great, the execution is average. Your observation is fair, except for ITTOD, which IMHO is the better album.

Thanks for your response. I was thinking maybe I was alone and was going to sound stupid. I also find it really interesting that you think ITTOD is a better album than Presence. I'm sure you're not alone. I may have jumped the gun in my assumption about most liking Presence better. I just have read so much about how Presence is underrated. Still I do prefer in over ITTOD, although I think ITTOD is a good album. If it had the 4 Coda tracks that were originally intended for it then it would be a classic. So I guess the sessions for ITTOD were probably overall more productive than Presence, if nothing else.

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Thanks for your response. I was thinking maybe I was alone and was going to sound stupid. I also find it really interesting that you think ITTOD is a better album than Presence. I'm sure you're not alone. I may have jumped the gun in my assumption about most liking Presence better. I just have read so much about how Presence is underrated. Still I do prefer in over ITTOD, although I think ITTOD is a good album. If it had the 4 Coda tracks that were originally intended for it then it would be a classic. So I guess the sessions for ITTOD were probably overall more productive than Presence, if nothing else.

I see the album cover as the front door / foyer to the album itself. That impression is much like that of entering a house, and it can affect your bias of what is contained within. It may be coincidence, or not, but I hate the cover of LZ II, and it is also my least favorite Zeppelin album. Hard to say if the correlation is definitive, but it is human nature to judge a book by its cover, even when one strives not to have such biases. By the way, I love Presence too, but I have a very close connection to ITTOD, and a certain time in my life. The album wil always be a favorite. Somewhere in my Mother's (RIP) estate is a picture of me as a teenager, sitting in a chair with a big smile, and holding my brand new Presence LP, which I believe was a Christmas present. I still have that copy.
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100% on the money and spookily was making the same comment on Presence

elsewhere. After the brilliance of the P.G. concept and execution i can remember literally

expecting magic when Presence was released .Hipgnosis who did the art were doing a lot of

" clever" stuff for bands like 10cc and i always felt the cover concept would have fitted them better.

It definitely affected the perception of the music inside to the extent that the album was considered lightweight

amongst my peer group at the time. It also didnt help that they followed on virtually immediately

with TSRTS which is a miles better cover concept.

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I like the cover and the concept. :wizard: But if you don't like the music inside because of the cover then you didn't listen to the music. :stereo: The music on Presence speaks for itself. :piano: How can anyone say this album is lightweight !? :ahhh: Achilles Light? :sarcastic_hand: No fuckin way!. NFBM light? UH UH, :smack: For Your Life? Really ! :mad: C'mon now!, Tea For One, Lightweight!!!? No, Way. :hysterical:

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I think your use of emoticons and the of the Fword speaks volumes!

Cover rendered it lightweight didn't say music was lightweight.

Did you bother to read the thread opener? :wizard:

PS

That's me being ironic by the way

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I think your use of emoticons and the of the Fword speaks volumes!

Cover rendered it lightweight didn't say music was lightweight.

Did you bother to read the thread opener? :wizard:

PS

That's me being ironic by the way

What volumes would those be? I was just having a bit of fun.

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Being a sci-fi fan I understood the concept art for Presence the first time I saw it and thought it was both clever and insightful. I did not have to wait for the band to explain the art in interviews, it was blatantly obvious to any fan of Kubrick & Arthur C. Clark and I felt the art represented the music inside perfectly. Also, it kind of reminded me stylistically at least, of Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here, also by Hipgnosis and only a year earlier.

I feel the reason Presence is the least selling album of the Zeppelin canon (second only to Coda) is because the music was a good decade ahead of everything else. Most of my friends that heard it up until around 85' just could not wrap their heads around it the sounds being so different for the time. Of course Judas Priest would mimic these sounds for such albums as Sin After Sin & Stained Class to great affect but even Priest would not gain acceptance for these sounds until the 80's.

Sometimes the audience needs to catch up to the music, this is a perfect example of this, and by the time they did Zeppelin was done and other bands had taken over, using the exact same sounds Zeppelin did 10 years earlier...hello...the Cult anyone???

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I find it really interesting all the more that any Zep fan thinks Zeppelin II is their worst album. That's truly a unique opinion. It's often cited at the top or at least top 3. I don't have a problem with that cover because it was at least brown so it was kinds dark and weird with the collage.

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I find it really interesting all the more that any Zep fan thinks Zeppelin II is their "least favorite" album. That's truly a unique opinion. It's often cited at the top or at least top 3. I don't have a problem with that cover because it was at least brown so it was kinds dark and weird with the collage.

Fixed the mis-quote for you. Nice try.
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Sorry bro, I wasn't trying to make it sounded like you hated it or anything by them. I definitely used a bad word by typing "worst". I was just kinda rushing on the keyboard with various tasks.

I figured as much. You'll eventually figure out my sense of humor. I'm crusty, but I mean no harm. Peace friend.

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I like the cover and the concept. :wizard: But if you don't like the music inside because of the cover then you didn't listen to the music. :stereo: The music on Presence speaks for itself. :piano: How can anyone say this album is lightweight !? :ahhh: Achilles Light? :sarcastic_hand: No fuckin way!. NFBM light? UH UH, :smack: For Your Life? Really ! :mad: C'mon now!, Tea For One, Lightweight!!!? No, Way. :hysterical:

I never referred to any of those tracks as lightweight, nor did I say I didn't care for the music. I said that many critics and fans saw every song that wasn't Achilles and Nobody's Fault, as filler. I was attempting to uncover why that is. The album sold well early then fell off. So it didn't generate the positive word of mouth that other quick sellers did, and to this day, it still hasn't really gotten over the hump by Zep sales standards. It would be different, had it been their last album and we just chalked it up to the end of a great career, but ITTOD followed and did sale up to Zep standards. Maybe you have some insight as to why you think things turned out this way. Personally, I think the album cover played a role. I could be wrong, but with it having good songs, especially with the level Achilles has reached in Zep lore, I'm just surprised it didn't sell more. It also makes you ask, if it didn't have the epic Achilles, would it even have sold what it did?

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I never referred to any of those tracks as lightweight, nor did I say I didn't care for the music. I said that many critics and fans saw every song that wasn't Achilles and Nobody's Fault, as filler. I was attempting to uncover why that is. The album sold well early then fell off. So it didn't generate the positive word of mouth that other quick sellers did, and to this day, it still hasn't really gotten over the hump by Zep sales standards. It would be different, had it been their last album and we just chalked it up to the end of a great career, but ITTOD followed and did sale up to Zep standards. Maybe you have some insight as to why you think things turned out this way. Personally, I think the album cover played a role. I could be wrong, but with it having good songs, especially with the level Achilles has reached in Zep lore, I'm just surprised it didn't sell more. It also makes you ask, if it didn't have the epic Achilles, would it even have sold what it did?

I would never allow an album cover to influence my decision to NOT buy an album from any band let alone one that has wowed me with all their other albums. It seems stupid to me to not buy an album based on its cover.

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I would never allow an album cover to influence my decision to NOT buy an album from any band let alone one that has wowed me with all their other albums. It seems stupid to me to not buy an album based on its cover.

I don't think it prevented people from buying it at first. It was a big seller early. But then it got a bad rap, which ultimately affected future sales from those who hadn't heard it. On iTunes, Achilles is an Album Only pruchase, because I'm sure Zep and iTunes knows that too many would just snag that one then bail lol

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I never referred to any of those tracks as lightweight, nor did I say I didn't care for the music. I said that many critics and fans saw every song that wasn't Achilles and Nobody's Fault, as filler. I was attempting to uncover why that is. The album sold well early then fell off. So it didn't generate the positive word of mouth that other quick sellers did, and to this day, it still hasn't really gotten over the hump by Zep sales standards. It would be different, had it been their last album and we just chalked it up to the end of a great career, but ITTOD followed and did sale up to Zep standards. Maybe you have some insight as to why you think things turned out this way. Personally, I think the album cover played a role. I could be wrong, but with it having good songs, especially with the level Achilles has reached in Zep lore, I'm just surprised it didn't sell more. It also makes you ask, if it didn't have the epic Achilles, would it even have sold what it did?

I suggest reading my above post which answered every one of your questions.

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I have never allowed an album cover to influence my feelings about the music, pro or con. Never judge a book by its cover, as they say.

There are many great albums with shitty covers and dodgy albums with great covers.

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I have never allowed an album cover to influence my feelings about the music, pro or con. Never judge a book by its cover, as they say.

There are many great albums with shitty covers and dodgy albums with great covers.

No doubt, plus there were a few very dicey album covers (Blind Faith, Scorpions-Virgin Killer) which if issued today would quite literally land the whole band in jail and have them register as sex offenders. Even back in the 70's, WTF were these guys thinking???

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Amazing to think that Houses Of The Holy was delayed by 6 months because the tint of the sky wasn't quite right. Definitely a lost art form.

Presence was a typical 70s hipgnosis album cover. I always loved it because it was odd.

There are a few Hipgnosis covers from that time that were odd that didn't work.. Technical Ecstasy, Never Say Die, Going For The One, Tormato.

I think Presence worked. The white, clean cover matched the laser sharp music..

Funny, I always thought the dad on the front cover looked like Bob Newhart.

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Amazing to think that Houses Of The Holy was delayed by 6 months because the tint of the sky wasn't quite right. Definitely a lost art form.

Presence was a typical 70s hipgnosis album cover. I always loved it because it was odd.

There are a few Hipgnosis covers from that time that were odd that didn't work.. Technical Ecstasy, Never Say Die, Going For The One, Tormato.

I think Presence worked. The white, clean cover matched the laser sharp music..

Funny, I always thought the dad on the front cover looked like Bob Newhart.

I'm not sure why, but I would love for Presence to have been issued in a black cover with the same pictures, but with white borders around them. I think black would better represent the darkness and the tension of the music. I agree that Hipgnosis was starting to make some stinkers by the time the late '70's arrived, although I think Never Say Die was a great cover. The Presence cover was a great concept, but I would like it to have been a little more developed and mysterious, like previous Zeppelin album covers.
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At the time Presence came out, I was not allowed to play loud music in my parents' house. I was just old enough to not be obligated to go out to dinner with them, though - and those nights were the rare times I could stay home and listen to my music properly. So this cover, showing a family all dudded up and just sitting at a restaurant enjoying... basically nothing, kind of gave me extra satisfaction in a little independence.

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I'm not sure why, but I would love for Presence to have been issued in a black cover with the same pictures, but with white borders around them. I think black would better represent the darkness and the tension of the music. I agree that Hipgnosis was starting to make some stinkers by the time the late '70's arrived, although I think Never Say Die was a great cover. The Presence cover was a great concept, but I would like it to have been a little more developed and mysterious, like previous Zeppelin album covers.

I always thought the TSRTS cover was how i expected Presence to look.It has a certain gravitas

a faded glory that Presence lacked ( I am discussing artwork only btw)

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On iTunes, Achilles is an Album Only pruchase, because I'm sure Zep and iTunes knows that too many would just snag that one then bail lol

Not true. Any song on iTunes that is over 10 minutes long becomes an Album Only purchase. For some reason that's just how iTunes does things.

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