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nick2632

Which shows do we know were multitracked?

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Does anyone know which shows were multitracked?

Of course all the official releases were multitracked, but was Paris 10/10/1969 (Led Zeppelin I Companion Disc) multitracked or did Jimmy just lower his ridiculously high standards to a soundboard recording then remaster it to the highest quality?

Are those recordings found on Disc 1 of BBC Sessions multitracked as well as the 30 minute amazing video of Denmark '69 by chance? I suppose if Paris '69 was not multitracked then that opens a lot of hope for future live recordings since afterall there were only so many shows that they did multitrack.

I do know that my favorite show was multitracked ~ Southampton University - January 22, 1973.

I apologize if this has already been a topic, but I looked around briefly and didn't see anything like this.

Also, feel free to post shows that are believed to have been multitracked as well.

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Page has stated categorically that RAH 1970 was the first multi-tracked show...

Everything prior that has been released has been from master or 1st gen recordings - 1/4" stereo or mono.

If you use the search function you'll see this subject, along with the question of available film footage, has been covered more than comprehensively.

Edited by woz70

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From various forums and possibly disinformation I find this topic very nebulous. Yes, 70' RAH. However, how do you classify the HTWWW

video where Page overdubbed second guitars on ITE , ALS, from Knebworth, and The Ocean from 73' MSG ??? I'm assuming by

multi-tracked you mean a soundboard with one or more lines in from each band member. Yet to fully represent Bonzo's Magic he

would often have a dozen or more mics set up to catch everything(although I believe this was from ??73' on ?? Supposedly some

multi-tracks only have a few mics for Bonzo. This would or could change the overall sound tremendously.

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Known:
·1970.01.09 -- Royal Albert Hall, London, England, UK -- Officially released in 2003 on Led Zeppelin DVD.
·1971.04.01 -- Paris Theatre, London, England, UK -- Concert recorded for John Peel's In Concert series; officially released in 1997 on BBC Sessions.
·1972.06.25 -- The Forum, Inglewood, California, USA -- Officially released (in part) in 2003 on How the West Was Won.
·1972.06.27 -- Long Beach Arena, Long Beach, California, USA -- Officially released (in part) in 2003 on How the West Was Won.
·1973.01.22 -- The Old rectory, Southampton University, Southampton, England, UK -- Rough multi-track mixdown bootlegged in 2007; officially released (in part, mellotron intro to "Stairway to Heaven") in 2003 on How the West Was Won.
·1973.07.27 -- Madison Square Garden, New York City, New York, USA -- Officially released (in part) in 1976 on The Song Remains the Same.
·1973.07.28 -- Madison Square Garden, New York City, New York, USA -- Officially released (in part) in 1976 on The Song Remains the Same.
·1973.07.29 -- Madison Square Garden, New York City, New York, USA -- Officially released (in part) in 1976 on The Song Remains the Same.
·1975.05.23 -- Earls Court Exhibition Centre, London, England, UK -- Officially released (in part) in 2003 on Led Zeppelin DVD.
·1975.05.24 -- Earls Court Exhibition Centre, London, England, UK -- Officially released (in part) in 2003 on Led Zeppelin DVD.
·1975.05.25 -- Earls Court Exhibition Centre, London, England, UK -- Officially released (in part) in 2003 on Led Zeppelin DVD.
·1979.08.04 -- Knebworth House, Hertfordshire, England, UK -- Officially released (in part) in 2003 on Led Zeppelin DVD.
·1979.08.11 -- Knebworth House, Hertfordshire, England, UK -- Officially released (in part) in 2003 on Led Zeppelin DVD.
·2007.12.10 -- O2 Arena, London, England, UK -- Officially released in 2012 on Celebration Day.

Potential:
·1971.09.28 -- Festival Hall, Osaka, Japan -- This concert is widely believed to have been multi-tracked.
·1971.09.29 -- Festival Hall, Osaka, Japan -- This concert is widely believed (and very likely) to have been multi-tracked.

10/17/69 Carnegie Hall shows in NYC are confirmed as being multitracked through Eddie Kramer.

6/29/29 RAH shows are rumored to be multitracked.
9/23 and 9/24 71 Tokyo confirmed mulitracked on 2 8 track machines using 2 inch tape.
9/28 and 9/29 Osaka are confirmed also, same equipment as Tokyo.
Japan 71 recordings are confirmed here from an interview in Crossbeat magazine.
http://www.royal-orleans.com/phpBB/view ... 0&start=50
Jimmy Page himself or Peter Grant confirmed one of the Surrey shows in 68 was multitracked. I don't recall if the date was 10/15 or 10/25 since they played shows at Surrey University on both dates.

Edited by Sathington Willoughby

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Thanks for the list Sathington! Looks like we actually do have pretty much everything as an official release besides audio only which continues to puzzle me. I still wonder why they filmed Seattle '77, but didn't record it. Did Jimmy confirm that he didn't have Seattle multi-tracked? I think I read that he said that back around the Led Zeppelin DVD, but was that just implied or did he state that no '77 shows were multi-tracked? I wonder what's going on with Japan tapes, there is no way that they could have listened to Osaka 9/29/1971 and concluded the performance was sub par for an official release! I never knew that Jimmy or Peter confirmed that a September '68 show was recorded, but that's pretty cool if we ever got to hear that!! I always assumed that they would have recorded one just to see what they actually sounded like on stage.

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Pontiac and Seattle '77 were only filmed because of the in-house video feeds that were meant for the people up in the nosebleeds.

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Good work Willoughby. I knew 95% anyway, but there WERE some surprises. The 77' situation is ridiculous, and I do think there could be

some shows, but Jimmy even with the best tech gear could not hide his alarmingly declining skills/ drug addled condition.

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I wonder what's going on with Japan tapes, there is no way that they could have listened to Osaka 9/29/1971 and concluded the performance was sub par for an official release! .

Nick

The question the Osaka show was not that it was deemed sub par and therefore unworthy for release.

The big issue was that the balance of the Multi track recording was off. Robert mentioned this during an interview at the advent of IVs release in november 71. He stated the balance was' worse than a bootleg' and that the band had made better recordings recently with 'an ordinary Revox' (now we know he's refering to Orlando, Toronto and Hampton SB recordings). A more indepth account regarding Osaka 71 is available in Lewis/Pallett's Concert File (page 156 of the 2nd edition). The infamous recording was reconsidered for official release in 2003.But alas 'How the EAST was won' companion release to HTWWW and DVD was shelved for the second time. A great pity, but somehow since technology always gets better, maybe Jimmy knows how to fix the imperfections sometime in the near future...fingers crossed

Edited by duckman

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Nick

this was not the question the Osaka show was deemed sub par and therefore unworthy for release.

The only problem was that the balance of the Multi track recording was off. Robert mentioned this during an interview at the advent of IVs release in november 71. He stated the balance was' worse than a bootleg' and that the band had made better recordings recently with 'an ordinary Revox' (now we know he's refering toOrlando, Toronto and Hampton!). A more indepth account is available in Lewis/Pallett's Concert File (page 156 of the 2nd edition). The infamous recording was reconsidered for official release in 2003.But alas 'How the EAST was won' companion release to HTWWW was shelved for the second time. A great pity, but somehow since technology always gets better, maybe Jimmy knows how to fix the imperfections sometime in the near future...fingers crossed

This probably means that one or more tracks was recorded to tape too hot, resulting in distortion (much like RP's vocals on the Bombay sessions 'friends'). Whilst you can get away with that (just) for bass & guitars and barely for vocals, distorted drums can't really be made to sound good outside of industrial music... Distortion is not something you can remove from a recorded sound, even with clever digital processing.

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"10/17/69 Carnegie Hall shows in NYC are confirmed as being multitracked through Eddie Kramer."

"6/29/29 RAH shows are rumored to be multitracked."

"Jimmy Page himself or Peter Grant confirmed one of the Surrey shows in 68 was multitracked. I don't recall if the date was 10/15 or 10/25 since they played shows at Surrey University on both dates."

Wow! This is rather shocking. I'd consider these to be my holy grails.

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Known:

·1970.01.09 -- Royal Albert Hall, London, England, UK -- Officially released in 2003 on Led Zeppelin DVD.

·1971.04.01 -- Paris Theatre, London, England, UK -- Concert recorded for John Peel's In Concert series; officially released in 1997 on BBC Sessions.

·1972.06.25 -- The Forum, Inglewood, California, USA -- Officially released (in part) in 2003 on How the West Was Won.

·1972.06.27 -- Long Beach Arena, Long Beach, California, USA -- Officially released (in part) in 2003 on How the West Was Won.

·1973.01.22 -- The Old rectory, Southampton University, Southampton, England, UK -- Rough multi-track mixdown bootlegged in 2007; officially released (in part, mellotron intro to "Stairway to Heaven") in 2003 on How the West Was Won.

·1973.07.27 -- Madison Square Garden, New York City, New York, USA -- Officially released (in part) in 1976 on The Song Remains the Same.

·1973.07.28 -- Madison Square Garden, New York City, New York, USA -- Officially released (in part) in 1976 on The Song Remains the Same.

·1973.07.29 -- Madison Square Garden, New York City, New York, USA -- Officially released (in part) in 1976 on The Song Remains the Same.

·1975.05.23 -- Earls Court Exhibition Centre, London, England, UK -- Officially released (in part) in 2003 on Led Zeppelin DVD.

·1975.05.24 -- Earls Court Exhibition Centre, London, England, UK -- Officially released (in part) in 2003 on Led Zeppelin DVD.

·1975.05.25 -- Earls Court Exhibition Centre, London, England, UK -- Officially released (in part) in 2003 on Led Zeppelin DVD.

·1979.08.04 -- Knebworth House, Hertfordshire, England, UK -- Officially released (in part) in 2003 on Led Zeppelin DVD.

·1979.08.11 -- Knebworth House, Hertfordshire, England, UK -- Officially released (in part) in 2003 on Led Zeppelin DVD.

·2007.12.10 -- O2 Arena, London, England, UK -- Officially released in 2012 on Celebration Day.

Potential:

·1971.09.28 -- Festival Hall, Osaka, Japan -- This concert is widely believed to have been multi-tracked.

·1971.09.29 -- Festival Hall, Osaka, Japan -- This concert is widely believed (and very likely) to have been multi-tracked.

10/17/69 Carnegie Hall shows in NYC are confirmed as being multitracked through Eddie Kramer.

6/29/29 RAH shows are rumored to be multitracked.

9/23 and 9/24 71 Tokyo confirmed mulitracked on 2 8 track machines using 2 inch tape.

9/28 and 9/29 Osaka are confirmed also, same equipment as Tokyo.

Japan 71 recordings are confirmed here from an interview in Crossbeat magazine.

http://www.royal-orleans.com/phpBB/view ... 0&start=50

Jimmy Page himself or Peter Grant confirmed one of the Surrey shows in 68 was multitracked. I don't recall if the date was 10/15 or 10/25 since they played shows at Surrey University on both dates.

Forgot to give my buddy Ian (Melcore) credit for compiling this list, thanks bro! ;)

and that's 6/29/69, not 29, lol. :blush:

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14 hours ago, blindwillie127 said:

All 5 of the Earls Court concerts were multi tracked. 

Where did you find the confirmation that 5/17 and 5/18 of the EC's were also multitracked? Most here  know 23 (partially) 24 and 25 were captured on multitrack.
I always thought this sounded very plausible since the first two shows were added later to the itinerary (due to rapid sell out of the latter three) and the rental of the mobile unit for the two additional dates was not that simple. If so, the existence of (especially ) the 5/18 on multi would be a treat😛

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, duckman said:

Where did you find the confirmation that 5/17 and 5/18 of the EC's were also multitracked? Most here  know 23 (partially) 24 and 25 were captured on multitrack.
I always thought this sounded very plausible since the first two shows were added later to the itinerary (due to rapid sell out of the latter three) and the rental of the mobile unit for the two additional dates was not that simple. If so, the existence of (especially ) the 5/18 on multi would be a treat😛

Kevin Shirley 2003 interview:

"The material from the Royal Albert Hall show [1970] was recorded on eight-track one-inch tape," Shirley elaborates. "There were the two Californian shows [from 1972] that ended up on How The West Was Won, three Madison Square Garden shows [1973] and five Earls Court shows [1975]. These were all recorded on 16-track two-inch tape. Finally there were two Knebworth shows [1979] on 24-track two-inch tape." (Shirley did not work on the 'Extras' on the DVD, which contain mono soundtracks that came with the images.)

Shirley eventually loaded all the material from the multitrack tapes into his Pro Tools HD system at 24-bit, 96kHz, using the system's own converters, making sure that he captured that precious first pass of the tape past the heads in one go. After the multitrack material was safely transferred into Pro Tools, Shirley made rough stereo mixes of everything, and he and Page spent hours listening and making "copious notes. He knew more about which performances he liked, and I made notes about what was pertinent to my job, ie. more technical issues. But I think since I'm a producer as well, I was a good foil for Jimmy. He used me to bounce things off."

Edited by blindwillie127

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Jimmy Page himself or Peter Grant confirmed one of the Surrey shows in 68 was multitracked. I don't recall if the date was 10/15 or 10/25 since they played shows at Surrey University on both dates.

 

I know this post is a few years old, but where did Page or Grant confirm this?

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On 8/7/2015 at 1:05 PM, Sathington Willoughby said:

 

Forgot to give my buddy Ian (Melcore) credit for compiling this list, thanks bro! ;)

 

and that's 6/29/69, not 29, lol. :blush:

Dave Lewis says "All the 1977 concerts were filmed and recorded for the band. What happen to those shows who knows. Maybe when Kevin Sheerly looked through the vault said most shows were not good enough for release.  

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4 hours ago, strombringer101 said:

Dave Lewis says "All the 1977 concerts were filmed and recorded for the band. What happen to those shows who knows. Maybe when Kevin Sheerly looked through the vault said most shows were not good enough for release.  

I wonder if we'll ever know for sure... :smiley_pray:

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11 hours ago, strombringer101 said:

Dave Lewis says "All the 1977 concerts were filmed and recorded for the band. What happen to those shows who knows. Maybe when Kevin Sheerly looked through the vault said most shows were not good enough for release.  

I don't believe this for a second as I can name 15 shows from the 77' tour, just off the top of my head, which were not just good but brilliant. If just one was multi-tracked it would have already been released.

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I thought Eddie Kramer's claim that the Carnegie Hall show in 1969 was recorded professionally was debunked.

I mean, if it was, surely it would've been better on the Led Zeppelin companion disc than the awful sounding Paris gig that did end up on there.

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I guess this thread is as good as any to submit the following. As some of you may know, I have been going through my old magazines reading Led Zeppelin stories and interviews from back in the day. I came across this interview Lisa Robinson wrote for Hit Parader on the occasion of the New York Premiere of "The Song Remains the Same". Excerpted from the April 1977 issue of Hit Parader. I have bold-faced the most interesting parts.

Lisa Robinson: Why did it take so long - two years it was mentioned - to complete the soundtrack album?

Jimmy Page: No way did it take two years. It didn't really take very long at all. It was recorded, obviously, at the same time as the gig, and then mixed over a period of three weeks with the film track. Then it took a couple of weeks for the album. In fact, the same tape that was used for the dub for the celluloid was used to make the stereo composite for the record. It's only one generation away.

Lisa: Do you feel the record works as a live album?

Jimmy:  Well, it's a soundtrack, and you've got to think of it that way. If we were going to do a live album of our stuff we would do it differently. Mainly because we've got so many things that could capture people's imaginations. We've got live tapes that go back to 1969, things that we get off on, let alone people that are into us. There are many live sets like the one in the film, this just happened to be one of them. There are many of them, but this is the only one that has film to go with it.

Robert Plant: If we'd wanted to do a live album, well, we've got stuff from Japan...from all over, right through time. That would be interesting...

Lisa:  When do you think you might release all that...'historic' stuff?

Jimmy: Well, it depends. If nostalgia is still with us in another five years, we'll push it. (Laughs). No, of course I don't think it's nostalgia, it stands up by itself. Even in the old days...there was a real leaning on the blues vein. But blues is still blues, and there you go. That's basically the framework of what some of those early things were; it was good blues, and there's still a place for that - there will be in twenty and thirty years.

20180718_002949.thumb.jpg.d6570d0d6bee149b39cf01250448244e.jpg

20180718_003046.thumb.jpg.f496157888c9ca52c93045eaa7a20cec.jpg

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Ha ha, just looking at the article in the picture...

John Bonham, "I suppose you're here to interview the usual two."

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5 hours ago, Strider said:

 

Lisa: Do you feel the record works as a live album?

Jimmy:  Well, it's a soundtrack, and you've got to think of it that way. 

 

For anyone complaining about the original No Quarter. Although this doesn't explain the Black Dog/Celebration Day flip.

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