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borrowed time

Possible real reason Plant doesnt want to Zep again?

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So, I had been wishing that Zeppelin would tour one last time so I could see them once, missed them as a kid and kicking myself for it.  I figure they wouldn't be as good as they were 20 years ago, but still, cool.

I have been keeping track of the back & forth between Plant & Page about reuniting and was frustrated by the outcome.

HOWEVER, I have been listening to alot of Plant's later work and came up with a theory; Was Plant ever really into the harder, "metal" type hard rock?  Most of the work he's done has been slower blues, folk, and nearly country music as with Alison Krauss.  NOTE:  I love this later work, so this isnt a slam on it!  

So, to you folks out there that know Plant better, what do you think?  Thank you!                                        

 

 

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You will find innumerable threads and discussions like this.   For me, I think he's just put that part of his life behind him.  He's super proud of it, but doesn't want to tarnish it by going out subpar.  And I think he is happy where he is now.

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I'm sure there are many other reasons but I just think he and Jimmy don't intersect musically as they once did.  I loved Walking Into Clarksdale but much of that album was the sound of Jimmy fitting himself into Robert's vision in my opinion.  A few years before, Coverdale/Page sounded more "Pagey" to me.  JPJ hinted at this when he, Jimmy and Jason were still jamming after the O2; "He (Robert) doesn't want to play loud music anymore…we do."

Just a shame Jimmy couldn't once in the 8 plus years since the O2 put the idea of playing with Zep aside and just play the kind of music he wants to play, without reservation or apology.  Makes me think that he only wants to play and create within that familiar framework.  Sure seems that way, love to be proven wrong.

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There was an article that surfaced a few years ago, & probably was mentioned here. Carmine Appice who is supposedly a good friend of Plant's said that RP knows he can't do a full tour singing Zep songs. The occasional show absolutely, yes, but not the full blown tour that people have been hoping for. With every month, that passes the likelyhood grows even further.

Keeping that in mind, do you really want to see a watered down version of our favorite band? that is probably what you would get at this point.

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you guys are right of coarse, it would be a sad sight with these guys tryin to do a Zeppelin concert, probably put them in the hospital if they tried too hard.  guess we'll just let them age gracefully and in peace.

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On 5/10/2016 at 9:18 AM, borrowed time said:

So, I had been wishing that Zeppelin would tour one last time so I could see them once, missed them as a kid and kicking myself for it.  I figure they wouldn't be as good as they were 20 years ago, but still, cool.

I have been keeping track of the back & forth between Plant & Page about reuniting and was frustrated by the outcome.

HOWEVER, I have been listening to alot of Plant's later work and came up with a theory; Was Plant ever really into the harder, "metal" type hard rock?  Most of the work he's done has been slower blues, folk, and nearly country music as with Alison Krauss.  NOTE:  I love this later work, so this isnt a slam on it!  

So, to you folks out there that know Plant better, what do you think?  Thank you!                                 

A better question to ask is why is half the setlist an artist who insists upon "moving forward" Led Zeppelin songs.  

 

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40 minutes ago, Aspergius said:

It's because of John Bonham's death.  Simple and as painful as that.

This.  Robert Plant told Jason Bonham to his face that he (Plant) couldn't bear to reform Led Zeppelin because of Bonzo's absence, that it would be too emotionally painful to no longer see his dear-departed friend behind the kit... who could argue with that?

No Bonzo = no Zeppelin.

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5 hours ago, Aspergius said:

It's because of John Bonham's death.  Simple and as painful as that.

 

4 hours ago, The Old Hermit said:

This.  Robert Plant told Jason Bonham to his face that he (Plant) couldn't bear to reform Led Zeppelin because of Bonzo's absence, that it would be too emotionally painful to no longer see his dear-departed friend behind the kit... who could argue with that?

No Bonzo = no Zeppelin.

^^^Both of these!
RP has maintained the same sentiment for the last 36 years - without Bonzo there is no Zep (and he still maintains that Zep was pretty much mortally wounded in '77).
Why would there be a 'hidden' reason?  He simply doesn't want to go back and do that again.

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What made them great was the sum of the four of them. Even with Jason who's a good drummer technically, he isn't his dad (which is okay, he should be his own person/drummer etc), they can't be what they were and I would guess that is Robert's point. I do question though why he does so many Zep songs with a big back catalogue of his own stuff. 

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21 hours ago, Aspergius said:

It's because of John Bonham's death.  Simple and as painful as that.

No. That was the truth once, but now it's the convenient party line. There is no doubt that Plant misses Bonzo, but his decisions are based on much more than this. 

Edited by The Dark Lord

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16 hours ago, woz70 said:

 

^^^Both of these!
RP has maintained the same sentiment for the last 36 years - without Bonzo there is no Zep (and he still maintains that Zep was pretty much mortally wounded in '77).
Why would there be a 'hidden' reason?  He simply doesn't want to go back and do that again.

Robert didn't appear to be bothered by this at the O2 (not to mention the other live reunions). I would believe this theory more if he had stuck to his guns and simply never did live aid, and the subsequent failed new album/tour attempt circa 85/86. Or the 1991 nixed reunion/tour that Page said was all but ready to roll until Robert backed out literally at the last minute.  I agree with most people here that the death of Bonzo undoubtedly had a terrible impact on Robert, and Jimmy and no doubt JPJ, Grant ect. And I totally understand why Robert moved on with a solo career, the Zep gig was up.   This is just my opinion and I could be dead wrong, but I really don't think anyone outside of that secretive click really know why he never wanted to get the ball rolling again. It is what it is.

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30 minutes ago, SuperStatic said:

Robert didn't appear to be bothered by this at the O2 (not to mention the other live reunions). I would believe this theory more if he had stuck to his guns and simply never did live aid, and the subsequent failed new album/tour attempt circa 85/86. Or the 1991 nixed reunion/tour that Page said was all but ready to roll until Robert backed out literally at the last minute.  I agree with most people here that the death of Bonzo undoubtedly had a terrible impact on Robert, and Jimmy and no doubt JPJ, Grant ect. And I totally understand why Robert moved on with a solo career, the Zep gig was up.   This is just my opinion and I could be dead wrong, but I really don't think anyone outside of that secretive click really know why he never wanted to get the ball rolling again. It is what it is.

If it didn't have the crushing weight of trying to live up to what it was before, he might have been more willing to have a go.
The post Live Aid attempt was killed by Tony Thompson being injured in a car crash on the way to one of the rehearsals, and Page displaying various neuroses due to still not really being clean and sober - the whole thing was a case of 'oh no, here we go again...', so he said 'fuck that!'.
The only reason he set the O2 in motion was because Ahmet Ertegun's wife asked him to as a tribute to Ahmet.  I was sat about 4 feet away from Robert at a pub in the West Midlands the summer before the O2 was announced (he'd apparently just got off the plane from Monte Carlo and decided to go to the pub, so it must have August 2nd or 3rd 2007), and he was saying to his friends quite openly that he already regretted saying 'yes' to it for various reasons, but 'the beast had been awakened'.  I was, of course, totally stoked to be hearing from the horses mouth that there was going to be a reunion before the general public knew, but it was clear he was already really pissed of with various decisions and demands that were being made and seemed so weary about the whole deal.  He also said that it would definitively be the last time.

Edited by woz70

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Some will say we've heard all the reasons,  but maybe we haven't.

For the heavy side.  The band lost  Bonzo, Robert lost his son,  and prior to that he was in
an accident that could've easily put him permanenly in a wheelchair and / or killed his wife.
75 - 80 that's very depressing stuff.  It's painful to look back on.  I don't believe Robert is still
grieving,  but as much as he loves Led Zeppelin,  it could be a downright frightening thing in
his subconcious to go back to. 


Now for the silly eye rolling ego stuff.  Voice issues. Blah blah blah his voice isn't capable of
singing Zep songs the way he "thinks" the audience wants him to. He also can't stand in front
of a microphone without his A game telling Zep fans *Hey there look I'm the Golden
God with my bare chest and take notice of what side I lay my junk on*
  (Uh hello '73 N Y C @
M S G in T S R T S film). What if a scaled down tour would have a now healthy Jimmy going off the
sobriety wagon?  Maybe he believes at their age every mistake would be magnified.  In 1968- 80
what was called improvising could be classified as old guys in 2016 forgetting and flubbing up.
A lot of ego bruising to be had.  In 1975 a Zeppelin audience in my opinion would be much less
critical than an audience today.  But then a newer audience might be more appreciative at the
same time.  In the 60s and 70s there were so many freakin' awesome bands.  You were always
guaranteed every summer to have some amazing music acts come into your city.  In 2016? Well
here we are discussing a classic band such as Zeppelin,  when we could be talking about Kanye,
Jay-Z, Drake or Beyoncé.
:shifty:

As much as it's tired old hat for him to hear fans clamor on, I am sure it's also flattering that
people still long for them to be on the stage even though we know the ship has sailed.

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On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 8:29 PM, in_the_evening said:

You will find innumerable threads and discussions like this.   For me, I think he's just put that part of his life behind him.  He's super proud of it, but doesn't want to tarnish it by going out subpar.  And I think he is happy where he is now.

Makes sense,

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I don't think it's about not wanting to play loud music, or heavy rock. I saw him on his 2015 tour and he was in excellent voice, and his band was unafraid to throw some quite heavy numbers into the mix of things. I think Plant has been very clear about what his main issues are:

  1. He doesn't want to tour as Led Zeppelin, because he doesn't want the huge crazy scene of giant arenas, hangers-on, no privacy, rushing from place to place, and so on.
  2. Above all, he doesn't want to risk becoming a self-parody, recreating the past and playing all the old hits. He's been very vocal about how he feels his contemporaries (The Who, The Stones, and The Eagles) have gone down this road, and how he feels it's boring, embarrassing, and against his ethic of "rambling on" and exploring new musical vistas.
  3. One thing he doesn't say directly, but strongly hints at when he calls himself an "old fart" and jokes about how soon he'll barely be able to cross the street, is that the rigors of touring and playing Zep night after night after night probably would be beyond him now - hell, it was beyond him when he was 25! When I saw him in Philly in June of last year, he sounded great but it was his first show back after postponing 2 or 3 shows because of a cold. I don't think he wants to return to the days of feeling pressured to shred his voice by singing Rock & Roll, Trampled Underfoot, and the wails at the end of Kashmir over and over again when he's under the weather.

The one-off O2 show was a major event and allowed them to revisit their legacy with dignity. That sat well with Plant. Taking it on the road doesn't.

 

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On 5/13/2016 at 11:11 PM, woz70 said:

The only reason he set the O2 in motion was because Ahmet Ertegun's wife asked him to as a tribute to Ahmet.  I was sat about 4 feet away from Robert at a pub in the West Midlands the summer before the O2 was announced (he'd apparently just got off the plane from Monte Carlo and decided to go to the pub, so it must have August 2nd or 3rd 2007), and he was saying to his friends quite openly that he already regretted saying 'yes' to it for various reasons, but 'the beast had been awakened'.  

As I recall Robert opted out of a tribute planned for New York, offering instead to do something in the UK later that year. I believe the original plan was a a 45 minute set, as there would have been other artists headlining. Of course, when all was said and done we got a two hour show, a dvd, an album, etc. I can see where he may have felt the beast was awakened.

By the way, what was the name of the pub? :D

 

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6 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

As I recall Robert opted out of a tribute planned for New York, offering instead to do something in the UK later that year. I believe the original plan was a a 45 minute set, as there would have been other artists headlining. Of course, when all was said and done we got a two hour show, a dvd, an album, etc. I can see where he may have felt the beast was awakened.

By the way, what was the name of the pub? :D

 

"The Beast awakened" comment was more aimed at various others/management bods pushing the whole event in directions he was seriously unhappy, with and the whole thing being taken out of control of him, JP & JPJ.  He was quite vocal about it being 'simply a tribute to my mate who died' and the fact that people were already discussing tours & albums when the absolutely last thing he wanted to do was reform the band and go backwards.  He also mentioned struggling with the fact that rather than people just sitting down and talking about things, everything was having to go through everybody elses manager first and mostly by an ever growing raft of emails.  Jimmy's manager at the time was especially not regarded with much respect at all.

The pub was The Lock Inn.  RP's usual local had been flooded and was shut for refurbishment...  I'm not going to mention the area as it's pretty close to his house and I'm sure you of all people will know where I mean!

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On 13/05/2016 at 2:46 PM, SuperStatic said:

Robert didn't appear to be bothered by this at the O2 (not to mention the other live reunions). I would believe this theory more if he had stuck to his guns and simply never did live aid, and the subsequent failed new album/tour attempt circa 85/86. Or the 1991 nixed reunion/tour that Page said was all but ready to roll until Robert backed out literally at the last minute.  I agree with most people here that the death of Bonzo undoubtedly had a terrible impact on Robert, and Jimmy and no doubt JPJ, Grant ect. And I totally understand why Robert moved on with a solo career, the Zep gig was up.   This is just my opinion and I could be dead wrong, but I really don't think anyone outside of that secretive click really know why he never wanted to get the ball rolling again. It is what it is.

A one-off show in tribute to a friend or a three-song set (at Live Aid or the Atlantic 40th anniversary bash in '88) is very different to a full-blown tour.  I believe Robert when he told Jason Bonham that the loss of Bonzo was too painful to revisit night after night by not seeing him behind that Ludwig kit on a new tour... again, who are we to argue with that?

One of the great things about Zeppelin is when they ended, they really  ended; no reunion tours, no mediocre albums, no nothing, the book was closed and left for posterity, absolutely the way it should have went, even though the reasons for that were undoubtedly tragic and regrettable however sadly inevitable at that point.

 

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Why revisit the past (and those stupid looking girlie blouses) whilst his current touring band is absolutely fantastic.

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On 5/18/2016 at 8:46 AM, The Old Hermit said:

A one-off show in tribute to a friend or a three-song set (at Live Aid or the Atlantic 40th anniversary bash in '88) is very different to a full-blown tour.  I believe Robert when he told Jason Bonham that the loss of Bonzo was too painful to revisit night after night by not seeing him behind that Ludwig kit on a new tour... again, who are we to argue with that?

One of the great things about Zeppelin is when they ended, they really  ended; no reunion tours, no mediocre albums, no nothing, the book was closed and left for posterity, absolutely the way it should have went, even though the reasons for that were undoubtedly tragic and regrettable however sadly inevitable at that point.

 

Great post.

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Posted (edited)

Too many bad memories. Fear of it turning into a toxic money grabbing scene of hangers on like 1977. Personal issues with Jimmy going back to Karac's death. Fear of not being able to live up to past glory. Zeppelin at this point is a LEGEND. Any album that entirely made up of songs on par with Stairway to Heaven or such will be seen as a letdown. You can't compete with legend and mythology. His being embarrassed about the more "juvenile" aspects of Zeppelin. Bonzo being dead. Not being in tune musically with Jimmy and John anymore. The fact that no matter what they'd do the fans would want more and more and he's not a young guy who can live up to those demands anymore. Fans wouldn't be content with a "last record", especially if it turned out really good. We'd want more. He doesn't want to be a product anymore and live under the shadow of a label that is bigger than himself at this point. There's a certain freedom in just being Robert Plant, rather than being Robert Plant of Led Zeppelin, that I think he enjoys. I think Robert as he's gotten older has become a more and more private person and not the same extroverted kid he was in the 1960s and 1970s and doesn't want to do the stadium circuit. His head is also just not in that place anymore. It wasn't in 1978, and he had to be coerced into going back to Zeppelin back in 1978 and that was only 3 years away from their 1975 glory days. As time goes by, what Zeppelin meant (internally) has become more and more of a memory and more something separate from himself - not a part of his identity. 

I also think a respect for Led Zeppelin figures into it. He doesn't want to turn the name into just another nostalgia act or a gimmick, which really, is what it would quickly become and would devalue the name and the band's cultural and artistic legitimacy. They'd be another Stones - a touring conglomerate.

It's like going back to a marriage that had a crappy last few years and then ended in tragedy. It might be nice to go on a date with your ex, catch up, relive some old memories. But once certain boundaries are crossed there's really no going back.

I believe Led Zeppelin died when Karac did, at least for Robert, and he had to phone it in and pretend he was into it the last few years. He began to actually get into it again during the tour in 1980 only to have his best friend die right as it seemed they were back into a groove. There's a lot of heavy emotions associated with Zeppelin that it's just too much to go back to.

Edited by RoundingRover

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