Castro has died

[apantherfrommd]

5 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Yeah, well the tyrant in a pantsuit YOU voted for accepted campaign contributions from Middle Eastern governments who hold the same views on this issue. Personally, I couldn't care less.   

I'm using Liberal links, so there's no doubt or "if's". As in "even if"

even if that is true it still doesn't even remotely equate to passing legislation legalizing discrimination and promoting what amounts to torture tactics to attempt to change people who are gay to straight.  

Let's talk about equating legislation Mr..."it's a thing called respect.  Sam has asked for these issues to not be debated here and I respect the wishes of this site."

Saudis? https://www.clintonfoundation.org/contributors?category=%2410%2C000%2C001+to+%2425%2C000%2C000

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/us/politics/hillary-clinton-presidential-campaign-charity.html?_r=0 

State of Qatar https://www.clintonfoundation.org/contributors?category=%241%2C000%2C001 to %245%2C000%2C000&page=2

State of Kuwait https://www.clintonfoundation.org/contributors?category=%245%2C000%2C001+to+%2410%2C000%2C000

Jonesy, I don't believe the Qatari, Saudi, Kuwaiti and Emirate regimes donated 10's of millions for humans rights efforts. Not only did she accept such a large sum of money (10's of millions of dollars, but coincidently she's on the same page as ISIS in recipients from these places.
They hate gays and behead them, throw them off rooftops for kicks and torture them.

They also bury women in the ground from her chest up (with arms, torso, and legs buried), while they stand around her with and X-mark is the spot on her head or anywhere. They take turns stoning a woman until she is bloody dead. That is their law for punishment. The Dem nominee was proud to accept the donations from countries that do this to women and gays. So much for equality for women and gays.

Is that the kind of torture tactics being done by Pence with equivalence? I don't even like Pence. Please provide links. It would be an interesting comparison. I've provided links, and have more, but they are too brutal to show gays and women being hurt. It breaks my heart. I'm not being political here. I'm being human.

6 hours ago, kipper said:

 Do you actually know any gay people who lived in Cuba under Castro? Unless gay people in Indiana were beaten jailed and humiliated openly in the streets by the army and some machismo idiot thug you have not done your homework. the only point where LGBTQ people in cuba began to earn some tolerance was when Castro decided it was good for tourism and only then and just in Havana and a few other cities. I dont see gay cubans protesting Rubio and Pence I wonder why. I do see them celebrating the death of a thug however.

sorry to the forum, but I just hate being called a hypocrite because I am able to see a big difference between a Evangelical who I may not agree with and a dictator murderer.

You're not a hypocrite, Kipper. Please forgive me if I've gone against the grain here. It upsets me too, what Castro has done to gays and people under his dictatorship. I'm sorry for derailing your thread kipper. Will you let it slide this once? I for one am appreciative of your thread.As for Castro, in a small way, I'm sorry that he's no longer ruling Cuba.

Castro was the wicked witch of the East. Raul is the wicked witch of the West. And he's a lot worse than the other one. He doesn't even like hugs.  

I don't think he likes gays either.  

 

 

[kipper]

2 hours ago, Walter said:

Well if you think a guy running the "leader of the free world" country (and make no mistake about it, Pence is the "CEO" of the U.S.) supports discriminating against the LGBTQ community from receiving basic rights and services, and believes electroshock therapy and counseling  will "cure" people of being gay, then more power to you.  You've gotten what you've wanted.  Me, it doesn't affect me or my family personally, but I don't look out just for what's best for me.  I care about everyone living in this country and their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  

He is a evangelical  politician from Indiana Walter we all know what his beliefs are but he as been honest about his opinions on that even if I disagre with all of that. Hillary said one thing, then she said another and then something else. Hillary didnt care enough to have a opinion other than where she thought the votes were which means she would say of maybe even do anything. But you would be against him just because of the party he is  anyway. this thread is supposed to be about Castro. Its kind of disapointing to me that you are more upset about Pence than you were about Castro and his dictatorship.  says alot.

[kipper]

4 minutes ago, apantherfrommd said:

 

 

Is that the kind of torture tactics being done by Pence with equivalence? I don't even like Pence. Please provide links. It would be an interesting comparison. I've provided links, and have more, but they are too brutal to show gays and women being hurt. It breaks my heart. I'm not being political here. I'm being human.

You're not a hypocrite, Kipper. Please forgive me if I've gone against the grain here. It upsets me too, what Castro has done to gays and people under his dictatorship. I'm sorry for derailing your thread kipper. Will you let it slide this once? I for one am appreciative of your thread.As for Castro, in a small way, I'm sorry that he's no longer ruling Cuba.

 

thanks for that support Apanther  Some of the people who died at the Pulse escaped from repressive regimes only to be slaughtered by another kind of hateful belief system and then some people are going to focus on some Indiana politician who hasn't harmed anyone in reality. Pence can be wrong about his beliefs but he isnt a murderer.

[SteveAJones]

46 minutes ago, Walter said:

Tyrant?  Hyperbole much?  As far as the Middle East campaign donations for Clinton go, even if that is true it still doesn't even remotely equate to passing legislation leagalizing discrimination and promoting what amounts to torture tactics to attempt to change people who are gay to straight.  

I know, SAJ, with you its dog eat dog.  

I'm for personal responsibility and small-scale, limited government, not so much dog, eat dog.

So for example, in this case, what Johnny does behind closed doors is none of the government's business. By the same token, if Johnny wants to become Jenny or have a romantic relationship with Jeffrey more power to him but taxpayers should not be paying for it, nor turning the society upside down to accommodate it.

 

[IpMan]

45 minutes ago, kipper said:

thanks for that support Apanther  Some of the people who died at the Pulse escaped from repressive regimes only to be slaughtered by another kind of hateful belief system and then some people are going to focus on some Indiana politician who hasn't harmed anyone in reality. Pence can be wrong about his beliefs but he isnt a murderer.

I think we are getting off track a bit, after all, both sides gladly accept money from the Saudis & Friends CHAOS league, nothing new there. The real point is, like Castro, there is a very good chance should someone like Pence get control they would likely try to pass a repressive agenda. If it passes, agenda can become pogrom very quickly due to human nature. Anyone fanatical about anything will both take it to extremes and force their beliefs on others if given a chance. Pence is no different from any other extremist, he just does not yet have the power.

The world is not based on absolutes, as Steve said I would say, here I go: One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, it all depends if you are the oppressor or the oppressed. After all, the British labeled the American revolutionaries as terrorists & insurrectionists. I am not saying Castro was a good guy, he was not, he was a dictator just like Batista but with a different agenda. You talk to Cubans living in Cuba and they think Castro was a pretty good guy, not perfect but good. You talk to ex-pat Cubans in exile in Miami and they think him the devil incarnate, and the reason is those people were likely in with or backed Batista, this is why the young Cubans in Miami have no issue with Castro, it the old ones who wanted his balls. Either way, the guy was just a man, corrupted by power, who became a dictatorial asshole.

[IpMan]

10 minutes ago, SteveAJones said:

I'm for personal responsibility and small-scale, limited government, not so much dog, eat dog.

So for example, in this case, what Johnny does behind closed doors is none of the government's business. By the same token, if Johnny wants to become Jenny or have a romantic relationship with Jeffrey more power to him but taxpayers should not be paying for it, nor turning the society upside down to accommodate it.

 

How exactly are taxpayers paying for "it" and how is society being turned "upside down" to accommodate?

[SteveAJones]

6 minutes ago, IpMan said:

How exactly are taxpayers paying for "it" and how is society being turned "upside down" to accommodate?

Do I have to do all of the thinking around here? Here you go, for starters:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/25/obamacare-now-pays-for-gender-reassignment.html

...or just google "taxpayers paying for gender transition" for thousand of over links...

 

[kipper]

4 minutes ago, IpMan said:

I think we are getting off track a bit, after all, both sides gladly accept money from the Saudis & Friends CHAOS league, nothing new there. The real point is, like Castro, there is a very good chance should someone like Pence get control they would likely try to pass a repressive agenda. If it passes, agenda can become pogrom very quickly due to human nature. Anyone fanatical about anything will both take it to extremes and force their beliefs on others if given a chance. Pence is no different from any other extremist, he just does not yet have the power.

The world is not based on absolutes, as Steve said I would say, here I go: One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, it all depends if you are the oppressor or the oppressed. After all, the British labeled the American revolutionaries as terrorists & insurrectionists. I am not saying Castro was a good guy, he was not, he was a dictator just like Batista but with a different agenda. You talk to Cubans living in Cuba and they think Castro was a pretty good guy, not perfect but good. You talk to ex-pat Cubans in exile in Miami and they think him the devil incarnate, and the reason is those people were likely in with or backed Batista, this is why the young Cubans in Miami have no issue with Castro, it the old ones who wanted his balls. Either way, the guy was just a man, corrupted by power, who became a dictatorial asshole.

This is way off track. CASTRO HAS DIED and that is good news. I know lots of Cubans and not many of them were rich in cuba you need to check your facts

[SteveAJones]

34 minutes ago, kipper said:

This is way off track. CASTRO HAS DIED and that is good news. I know lots of Cubans and not many of them were rich in cuba you need to check your facts

Fact checking IpMan is like spraying a corpse with Lysol.

[SteveAJones]

Am I the only one who noticed this thread displays as "CASTRO HAS DIED (by forum member) just now"?  It's like he dies again and again with every thread update.

[redrum]

2 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Am I the only one who noticed this thread displays as "CASTRO HAS DIED (by forum member) just now"?  It's like he dies again and again with every thread update.

He and Che will forever live in the hearts of their myopic followers.

[IpMan]

11 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Do I have to do all of the thinking around here? Here you go, for starters:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/25/obamacare-now-pays-for-gender-reassignment.html

...or just google "taxpayers paying for gender transition" for thousand of over links...

 

I think you need to read your own article before you post and make an ass out of yourself. The article clearly points out that her insurance DENIED the surgical claim and she had to pay out of pocket the full cost of surgery, the only thing covered was lab work and anesthesia, she paid $44,000 of her own money thus far. However, I will play devils advocate. Even if this were true (and it is not at this point), we are talking a handful of people a year, not much money. Also, why is it insurance will pick up the cost of viagra and cialis, two completely unnecessary drugs, yet refuse gender reassignment surgery? The payout for viagra and cialis is thousands of times greater than all those surgeries will ever cost, in fact viagra and cialis are a multi-billion dollar a year profit point.

So, because one of those fits in with your world view it is ok and should be paid for, but the other not? Well what about my world view? Maybe I believe if a man abuses his body by drug use and over-consumption of bad food to the point his body can no longer naturally sustain and maintain an erection, that's not my problem. That fat glutton should pay for his own meds. How about that? How is that opinion any different than yours except mine would save a shit load more money. Or how about we extend that to all self-inflicted diseases such as heart disease, diabetes, COPD, lung cancer, etc. Do you think that is fair and if not, why?

Like I said earlier, Castro was a dictator, how your views on health insurance factor into that is beyond me.

[IpMan]

11 hours ago, kipper said:

This is way off track. CASTRO HAS DIED and that is good news. I know lots of Cubans and not many of them were rich in cuba you need to check your facts

I never said they were rich, I said most of the old guard Cubans in Miami were Batista supporters and that is 100% true. Why does everything have to be your viewpoint? "Castro has died and that is good news," those are your words but somehow anyone who points out a larger view, is wrong. Why is it so difficult to think Castro started out good and became a dictator? You really think him, or most revolutionaries were born evil? If so then how do you explain our Founding Fathers? Do you think our Founding Fathers would have done things differently if the British were trying to assassinate them after they won the war? Or what if Britain was not tied up with France and decided to blockade the US for almost 60 years. Do you think that would have had an impact on the development of the US and how our leaders reacted? The thing is life is not black and white, there are reasons for behaviors and until we accept and address them, this shit is not gonna stop.

[SteveAJones]

1 hour ago, IpMan said:

I think you need to read your own article before you post and make an ass out of yourself. The article clearly points out that her insurance DENIED the surgical claim and she had to pay out of pocket the full cost of surgery, the only thing covered was lab work and anesthesia, she paid $44,000 of her own money thus far. However, I will play devils advocate. Even if this were true (and it is not at this point), we are talking a handful of people a year, not much money. Also, why is it insurance will pick up the cost of viagra and cialis, two completely unnecessary drugs, yet refuse gender reassignment surgery? The payout for viagra and cialis is thousands of times greater than all those surgeries will ever cost, in fact viagra and cialis are a multi-billion dollar a year profit point.

So, because one of those fits in with your world view it is ok and should be paid for, but the other not? Well what about my world view? Maybe I believe if a man abuses his body by drug use and over-consumption of bad food to the point his body can no longer naturally sustain and maintain an erection, that's not my problem. That fat glutton should pay for his own meds. How about that? How is that opinion any different than yours except mine would save a shit load more money. Or how about we extend that to all self-inflicted diseases such as heart disease, diabetes, COPD, lung cancer, etc. Do you think that is fair and if not, why?

Like I said earlier, Castro was a dictator, how your views on health insurance factor into that is beyond me.

Clearly you misread the article. She only paid a fraction ($17,000) of the overall expense. Please don't throw a typical liberal bait and switch into the argument (viagra vs. gender reassignment surgery). In my personal responsibility and small, limited government world view, taxpayers would not be paying for those drugs either, and that is because government would not be in the health care insurance business. Pay as you go for viagra, heart pills, obesity, etc. and if you can't afford it tough shit. 

I think this came up because for some it seems the final word on Castro should be "well, he was mean to gays" or some other such nonsense.    

[SteveAJones]

1 hour ago, IpMan said:

I never said they were rich, I said most of the old guard Cubans in Miami were Batista supporters and that is 100% true. Why does everything have to be your viewpoint? "Castro has died and that is good news," those are your words but somehow anyone who points out a larger view, is wrong. Why is it so difficult to think Castro started out good and became a dictator? You really think him, or most revolutionaries were born evil? If so then how do you explain our Founding Fathers? Do you think our Founding Fathers would have done things differently if the British were trying to assassinate them after they won the war? Or what if Britain was not tied up with France and decided to blockade the US for almost 60 years. Do you think that would have had an impact on the development of the US and how our leaders reacted? The thing is life is not black and white, there are reasons for behaviors and until we accept and address them, this shit is not gonna stop.

There you go again, assigning moral equivalency to Fidel Castro and the Founding Fathers and insisting any differences are purely circumstantial. Next you'll probably insist "They didn't build that". You Communists are a real piece of work.

[kipper]

3 hours ago, IpMan said:

I never said they were rich, I said most of the old guard Cubans in Miami were Batista supporters and that is 100% true. Why does everything have to be your viewpoint? "Castro has died and that is good news," those are your words but somehow anyone who points out a larger view, is wrong. Why is it so difficult to think Castro started out good and became a dictator? You really think him, or most revolutionaries were born evil? If so then how do you explain our Founding Fathers? Do you think our Founding Fathers would have done things differently if the British were trying to assassinate them after they won the war? Or what if Britain was not tied up with France and decided to blockade the US for almost 60 years. Do you think that would have had an impact on the development of the US and how our leaders reacted? The thing is life is not black and white, there are reasons for behaviors and until we accept and address them, this shit is not gonna stop.

This is just silly. It doesnt matter why someone starts out if they end up being a brutal killer. I dont follow politics and history like you do but even I can see when a dictator is evil. And i think the british were smart enough to understand that our founding fathers were not evil and so England probably saw America as a good partner later on because we are not communists. just look at Venezuala and look what is happend there to a country that got ruined by castro's buddy. Communism doesnt work and even in Russia they figured that out too.  Maybe Steve was right and I should not have started this thread because I had no idea that anyone would be a castro fan. I didnt want Castro to RIP for what he did to people. I dont want Bautista to RIP either if you ask. I dont want Hitler or Stalin to RIP. But for you to compare our founding fathers to Castro is pretty sad. I dont even put the English king in that group either because England was not evil for going against America just had a different view. Some people are evil though and Castro is one of them. Castro didnt just hurt rich people he took away peoples farms and small business and everything. if they complained he put them in prison and if their family left cuba castro punished the people who stayed. Did you know too that cuba is a place where people go to have sex with children? Cuba is like Thialand and some other places for that. Castro allows that to happen and that isnt right to exploit children and poor women it is so disgusting.

[kipper]

15 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Am I the only one who noticed this thread displays as "CASTRO HAS DIED (by forum member) just now"?  It's like he dies again and again with every thread update.

i planned it that way

[SteveAJones]

56 minutes ago, kipper said:

I dont want Hitler or Stalin to RIP.

"An artist who cared compassionately for dogs, Adolf Hitler's death highlights the need for suicide awareness campaigns"

-- Canadien Prime Minister Justin Trudeau  

 

"Mr. Stalin's greatest achievement was his eradication of obesity in the Ukraine through innovative agricultural reforms."

-- Canadien Prime Minister Justin Trudeau  

 

"While a controversial figure, General Tojo brought America into World War II and ultimately helped shorten the war.”

 -- Canadien Prime Minister Justin Trudeau  

 

A quiet loner with a quick wit, Osama Bin Laden inspired tremendous advances in air transportation security methodologies.

 -- Canadien Prime Minister Justin Trudeau

 

"There were controversies, as with every full life, but above all Adolf Eichmann taught us the importance of planning".

 -- Canadien Prime Minister Justin Trudeau

[IpMan]

4 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Clearly you misread the article. She only paid a fraction ($17,000) of the overall expense. Please don't throw a typical liberal bait and switch into the argument (viagra vs. gender reassignment surgery). In my personal responsibility and small, limited government world view, taxpayers would not be paying for those drugs either, and that is because government would not be in the health care insurance business. Pay as you go for viagra, heart pills, obesity, etc. and if you can't afford it tough shit. 

I think this came up because for some it seems the final word on Castro should be "well, he was mean to gays" or some other such nonsense.    

No, it was you who either misread the article, or simply did not read to the end. She paid $44,000 total, the full amount of the surgery as the surgical expense was denied by the ins company. She paid $17,000 out of savings initially and then was billed an additional $27,000 post-surgery.

[IpMan]

1 hour ago, kipper said:

This is just silly. It doesnt matter why someone starts out if they end up being a brutal killer. I dont follow politics and history like you do but even I can see when a dictator is evil. And i think the british were smart enough to understand that our founding fathers were not evil and so England probably saw America as a good partner later on because we are not communists. just look at Venezuala and look what is happend there to a country that got ruined by castro's buddy. Communism doesnt work and even in Russia they figured that out too.  Maybe Steve was right and I should not have started this thread because I had no idea that anyone would be a castro fan. I didnt want Castro to RIP for what he did to people. I dont want Bautista to RIP either if you ask. I dont want Hitler or Stalin to RIP. But for you to compare our founding fathers to Castro is pretty sad. I dont even put the English king in that group either because England was not evil for going against America just had a different view. Some people are evil though and Castro is one of them. Castro didnt just hurt rich people he took away peoples farms and small business and everything. if they complained he put them in prison and if their family left cuba castro punished the people who stayed. Did you know too that cuba is a place where people go to have sex with children? Cuba is like Thialand and some other places for that. Castro allows that to happen and that isnt right to exploit children and poor women it is so disgusting.

I am sorry, but both you and Steve are just too dense to debate with. I never compared Castro to the Founding Fathers, I was tying to make a point only. I never praised Castro, in fact I did the opposite but because my opinion differs from yours in any way whatsoever, that is just unacceptable and thus I am pro-Castro by default. Talk about you are either with us or the Terrorists. Nice broad brush their chief.

[kipper]

1 hour ago, IpMan said:

I am sorry, but both you and Steve are just too dense to debate with. I never compared Castro to the Founding Fathers, I was tying to make a point only. I never praised Castro, in fact I did the opposite but because my opinion differs from yours in any way whatsoever, that is just unacceptable and thus I am pro-Castro by default. Talk about you are either with us or the Terrorists. Nice broad brush their chief.

What I dont understand is because one thing gets posted about a bad guy then somebody else always is wanting to come back and excuse the bad guy by comparing that guy to somebody else or some other situation that doesnt even match reality. Castro never started out good. maybe he would have been good if after he put out the other dictator then he let the the people vote in a new government then that would have been good but no he didnt do that did he? When the founding fathers removed Englands rule they put it back to the people and i think Ipman that is the real difference you dont understand. i hope you are not pro castro but you are blaming America for castro in a sort of way.

And i dont appreceate being called dense Ipman. I know i cant say at as good as Steve jones and I try to be nice about things as best I can because Sam doesnt made rules because these always get to personal insults. I think you are very smart but it is not that I am not hearing what you are trying to say I just happen to know Cuban people who really are not rich were not rich in Cuba before castro they didnt like Bautista either but they confirm that Castro was worse. And then Castro let Russia put rockets in Cuba to kill Americans. For me it is very simple and when people get in rafts and risk death to leave that says it all. Same as people leaving from the war in Syria and like happend a long time ago with boat people from vietnam. There were never rafts going to those places from America or Austrailia or Europe they were all coming the other way and I think you sort of brush that aside.

[SteveAJones]

9 minutes ago, kipper said:

What I dont understand is because one thing gets posted about a bad guy then somebody else always is wanting to come back and excuse the bad guy by comparing that guy to somebody else or some other situation that doesnt even match reality.

IpMan is a leftist ideologue.  

[Walter]

 

This what we've desolved to become, rest of the world.  Glad you have a front row seat and see why we were such easy pickings for Putin to swoop in....  So sad. 

Out.

[SteveAJones]

5 minutes ago, Walter said:

 

This what we've desolved to become, rest of the world.  Glad you have a front row seat and see why we were such easy pickings for Putin to swoop in....  So sad. 

Out.

Unsure how often you leave your home but the rest of the world ain't exactly ticking like a precision time-piece either. I mean who's approval are you seeking on this issue, the French? If we're easy pickings for Putin or whomever it's because we have had an administration naming ships after Harvey Milk and other social justice warriors instead of actual warriors and issuing defense policies concerning gender transition and breastfeeding instead of readiness.  

[Walter]

Who's "we"?  You don't even live here.  Warriors are in every facet of life.  Certainly not sitting behind a computer screen in Japan however.