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ThreeSticks

Led Zeppelin in the months following Bonzo's passing

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Well it sure speaks volumes that Plant released Pictures in June of 82' whereas the last Zep album, Coda, was not released until November of the same year. 

Regardless of Bonzo's passing, Robert was done with one foot out the door by the announcement of the American gig's. I stand by my original assertion that after the second leg of the NA tour scheduled for early 81' Plant would have left the group. Not just because he was fed up, though I am sure it played a part, but because he wanted a solo career really bad. Plant would rather fail doing his own thing than succeed playing (or perceived to be playing) second fiddle to Jimmy. I also believe that is why he wanted to do the Page / Plant thing in the 90's. Without JPJ he reasoned it was NOT a Zep reunion, it was Plant & Page. Call it ego or self-determination or respect for Bonzo but I think Plant is scared shitless to reform Zep for one last go, not because of the whole jukebox thing, but because it would be extremely successful, and more of the Jimmy show. I think that would really bother Plant, the fact that Zep would completely overshadow his solo work and his identity as a solo artist. The only way Plant would agree to a one last go Zep tour would be if he were broke, and he is far, far from that so, goodnight Irene.

Anyone who believes Zep would have carried on post-March 1981 is living in fantasy land. Plant & Jones would have carried on exactly as they did, the only question is would Jimmy and Bonzo have teamed up to do their own thing?

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1 hour ago, IpMan said:

Well it sure speaks volumes that Plant released Pictures in June of 82' whereas the last Zep album, Coda, was not released until November of the same year. 

Regardless of Bonzo's passing, Robert was done with one foot out the door by the announcement of the American gig's. I stand by my original assertion that after the second leg of the NA tour scheduled for early 81' Plant would have left the group. Not just because he was fed up, though I am sure it played a part, but because he wanted a solo career really bad. Plant would rather fail doing his own thing than succeed playing (or perceived to be playing) second fiddle to Jimmy. I also believe that is why he wanted to do the Page / Plant thing in the 90's. Without JPJ he reasoned it was NOT a Zep reunion, it was Plant & Page. Call it ego or self-determination or respect for Bonzo but I think Plant is scared shitless to reform Zep for one last go, not because of the whole jukebox thing, but because it would be extremely successful, and more of the Jimmy show. I think that would really bother Plant, the fact that Zep would completely overshadow his solo work and his identity as a solo artist. The only way Plant would agree to a one last go Zep tour would be if he were broke, and he is far, far from that so, goodnight Irene.

Anyone who believes Zep would have carried on post-March 1981 is living in fantasy land. Plant & Jones would have carried on exactly as they did, the only question is would Jimmy and Bonzo have teamed up to do their own thing?

I agree with most of this post. But, the assertion that Plant would have been gone shortly after the scheduled NA 81' tour with Bonham still breathing is not quite that easy to deduce. Without Bonham there, Plant really only had Jimmy and he was busy battling his demons. Don't think he ever cared much for Jones other than his musicianship, and I think the feeling was mutual there. But, if Bonham hadn't died, it wouldn't have been as desirable/easy  to just leave Led Zeppelin behind and never look back the way he did, no way, not with Bonzo still in the band. 

 

 

Edited by blindwillie127

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1 hour ago, IpMan said:

Well it sure speaks volumes that Plant released Pictures in June of 82' whereas the last Zep album, Coda, was not released until November of the same year. 

Regardless of Bonzo's passing, Robert was done with one foot out the door by the announcement of the American gig's. I stand by my original assertion that after the second leg of the NA tour scheduled for early 81' Plant would have left the group. Not just because he was fed up, though I am sure it played a part, but because he wanted a solo career really bad. Plant would rather fail doing his own thing than succeed playing (or perceived to be playing) second fiddle to Jimmy. I also believe that is why he wanted to do the Page / Plant thing in the 90's. Without JPJ he reasoned it was NOT a Zep reunion, it was Plant & Page. Call it ego or self-determination or respect for Bonzo but I think Plant is scared shitless to reform Zep for one last go, not because of the whole jukebox thing, but because it would be extremely successful, and more of the Jimmy show. I think that would really bother Plant, the fact that Zep would completely overshadow his solo work and his identity as a solo artist. The only way Plant would agree to a one last go Zep tour would be if he were broke, and he is far, far from that so, goodnight Irene.

Anyone who believes Zep would have carried on post-March 1981 is living in fantasy land. Plant & Jones would have carried on exactly as they did, the only question is would Jimmy and Bonzo have teamed up to do their own thing?

Do you feel there would have been any chance of Plant saying, "Look, I want to venture off and make a solo record or two. This band needs time off for some of you to get well. It's the only way for us to be able to make a really great album next time. Also, I think it's in the best interest for some of you to do your own thing. We're in our 30's now. We've got young kids. This is no longer a stag party. I don't want the group to break up, but Zeppelin can no longer be 100% of my life, and if certain people's lifestyles don't start getting cleaned up, I am out for good." The main point here is do you (or others) feel that Robert might have laid down the riot act before saying I am gone for good. I don't know. I still feel there was a way for Robert to do his own thing, but keep the band together. I also wonder if such a riot act might have  pushed Jimmy and Bonzo towards treatment. Kind of like how Keith Richards' main inspiration for stopping "H" was because his problems were taking The Rolling Stones away from him.

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On 2/25/2017 at 1:49 AM, babysquid said:

I think what you are missing ( and I must stress I think, I'm not totally sure) is that due to the tax situation in the U.K at the time if Robert ( or any member)  had stayed in the UK they would be in debt. Therefore rather than Robert abandoning his family so he could selfishly keep his money it could be seen that his actions to avoid bankruptcy were perhaps the more sensible and responsible thing to do by them.

There is a DVD documentary on the making of The Rolling Stones' "Exile On Main Street" that talks about the exact same thing. According to Jagger, the reason why the band moved to France in 1971 is that if they had stayed, the entire band would've become bankrupt. The taxes were nearing 98 cents on the dollar. To stay that these musicians made a "choice" to go into exile is ludicrous. Unless you want to suggest that everyone should've gone back to their home country to learn new jobs so that they could live at home and not be taxed so much.

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I think Sticks was on to something about had Bonzo not passed, a 2 leg US tour, then a 1 and a half/2 yr layoff. Of 

course Plant's directive. I must say. no idea whatsoever what Page or Bonzo would do meanwhile, a huge grey area

because of their demons. And actually IMO 90% chance Plant  would stay on his solo career, Zep be damned.

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3 hours ago, IpMan said:

I think that would really bother Plant, the fact that Zep would completely overshadow his solo work and his identity as a solo artist.

The very reason many - myself included - believe why Plant consistently vetoed the proposed chronological live album Jimmy so desperately wanted to put together and release throughout the 1980's and 1990's. 

I admire Percy's integrity and like his ultra-dry sense of humor, but at the same time I can fully understand why his actions drive Jimmy into a foaming rage at times, there's always an ulterior motive with him.

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What a prickly mess.  Why does Plant need his solo career to be bigger than Led Zeppelin?  Is
his ego that delicate?   Does he despise the fact the largest part of his musical career is
forever glued to Jimmy?  He doesn't want to admit his highest achievements in music stem
from something he can no longer recapture?  I'm guessing here.   What's interesting is he won
several Grammy's with Alison,   but even with that media was still addressing him  as the
"Former Lead Singer of Led Zeppelin."   It does not mean his output as a solo artist was not
successful,   however when you think of Robert Plant your first thought is Zeppelin -  Not solo
artist,   or front guy for the Space Shifters or Band of Joy singer.    Those are more of a  "And
don't forget  Mr. Plant was part of these musical projects too!!
"   That must irk Robert,

I don't believe Plant tuned down a 2008 reunion tour out of respect for Bonzo.  If he did John
Bonham would be rollin' in his grave.   The bands breakup in 1980 yes most definitely fit that
criteria -  but not 35 plus years later.   My god if Bonzo could speak from the grave,   I bet he
would be absolutely giddy to see Jason as the drummer for Zeppelin.  In fact anybody who
would tell John Bonham you know it's disrespectful for your memory  is  getting a few dirty   
looks from the sky.    Everyone knows how vital his role was in the band.   Having the 3 play
with his son does not weaken that and Plant is crazy if he thought Bonzo would agree with that.  

I do hate that Plant is this weird  ass form of an Achilles Heel for Jimmy.   Because really he is.  
Jimmy would come out of retirement if Plant said: Call up Jones and Jason and strap on the
double neck.
  Then again Plant has his strangeness too.   He loves to sing Zeppelin songs and
have his set list be full of the Zep catalogue as long as nobody in his band are former Zeppelin
members.  Was there not an invitation from Robert for  Jimmy to work with him post O2,   but
the stipulation was it couldn't be anything related to Zeppelin-ish sounding music?  I could be
crossing wires with that though.   Forgive me.  
:lol:

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He loves to sing Zeppelin songs and
have his set list be full of the Zep catalogue as long as nobody in his band are former Zeppelin
members.  Was there not an invitation from Robert for  Jimmy to work with him post O2,   but
the stipulation was it couldn't be anything related to Zeppelin-ish sounding music?

 

I feel like this is all clouded because Plant so often jokes around in interviews or says stuff tongue in cheek that it's difficult to tell what his real view is. My two pe'nnorth: I believe he likes the freedom of being able to do Zep songs in completely different ways in his live stuff now, yet if asked he could still say something like "they're not exactly the old songs because they're in new arrangements".

Would that be having your cake and eating it? Maybe, but as he co wrote these songs, hasn't he earned the right to do whatever he wants with them (as would Page and JPJ if they wanted to rearrange them in a live show of their own)?

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10 hours ago, porgie66 said:

Shouldn't this now be "the months after Plants accident" thread?

?

Yeah sorry, got a little sidetracked.. i agree with Blindwillie in that I don't think Robert would have ever completely bailed on Zeppelin while JB was alive.  Solo project? Sure at some point..  a hiatus? Sure.

When John died, that was it..  I agree with KellyGirl that JB himself would have wanted and expected Jason to take his spot.  

One thing I don't get is all the assumptions that JPJ and Robert were just business partners and little else.. While they weren't boyhood pals like Robert and John B, or the songwriting duo P and P were, there must have been something there. It might have soured at some point, but I can't believe they weren't friends during Zeppelin's run. You can't go through so much good together and be indifferent towards each other. I'd be very surprised if this was the case. Watch the Rockestra theme and Lucille from Kampuchea and tell me they're not having a blast together. 

Edited by the chase

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Excellent points everyone and I agree there would be a good possibility of a hiatus / solo projects yet keep the band together until the muse strikes. 

Kelly: I did not mean to infer Plant's ego is so fragile, more along the lines of trying to escape a legacy and just be known for what he does. Think of it this way, imagine some great actor marries an even more acclaimed actress. They have a great life together however wind up moving in different directions and divorcing. Now, 36 years later the actor is still referred to as Mr. Whatever his ex wife name was. That could be a bit of a rub.

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Nope I knew you what you were referring to with Plant. :D  He has shown that he doesn't
need to fall back on his Zeppelin roots to survive in the music world....or has he?
:shifty:   He sure
likes to have his set list be  filled with Zeppelin.   And to be honest I think if he could sing them
like like did 40 years ago he would.  

Okay I need to stop while I'm ahead. We have 1000 threads dedicated to Robert mucking up the
reunion.  I'm sitting firmly on the side that says blame Plant for that.   Even though there was
never a promise ,  somebody has to be the scapegoat and he's the fall guy for me.  Not Page.  
Not Jones

The one thing I would have liked to have seen from Zeppelin if they had taken a hiatus and came
back is the introduction to some extra musicians.  It would always be originally a 4 man group,  but
from time to time a few extra bodies for some songs would not have hurt.  

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Posted (edited)

There is a youtube video of Plant with his current band playing "Going to California" which I won't post here because it's just too pathetic. He must really hate Jonesy, though I can't imagine why. Now that the thread is back on the original topic, if the four members of Led Zep had survived the 1980-81 touring (a very big IF), there is another LZ album and probably a live album. That takes us into 1983, and by then Robert has put together a separate organization, has his own band and puts out a solo album and does his own tour.  Free of Jimmy and Peter, Robert doesn't come back to Led Zeppelin for many years, no matter how much Bonzo begs and pleads -- not until he realizes that nobody really cares about his solo career and there are 50 million cds to sell in America.  We get Led Zeppelin instead of Plant-Page, and then a decade of no Led Zeppelin. Then some reunion shows and the remastered catalog with the extras, and that's that.  The only things that really would change is the incredulous decision to not let Jonesy in on the Plant - Page project, and, of course Bonzo alive and well.

Page on Plant's proposal to work together on an acoustic project: 

Quote

He would have no intention whatsoever of doing it… I've had enough of all this stuff, to be honest: 'Robert says this, Robert says that.' … The only reality of it is that we did one concert. No matter how you dress it up, look at the situation. That's it.

 

Edited by Mercurious

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18 hours ago, IpMan said:

Well it sure speaks volumes that Plant released Pictures in June of 82' whereas the last Zep album, Coda, was not released until November of the same year. 

Regardless of Bonzo's passing, Robert was done with one foot out the door by the announcement of the American gig's. I stand by my original assertion that after the second leg of the NA tour scheduled for early 81' Plant would have left the group. Not just because he was fed up, though I am sure it played a part, but because he wanted a solo career really bad. Plant would rather fail doing his own thing than succeed playing (or perceived to be playing) second fiddle to Jimmy. I also believe that is why he wanted to do the Page / Plant thing in the 90's. Without JPJ he reasoned it was NOT a Zep reunion, it was Plant & Page. Call it ego or self-determination or respect for Bonzo but I think Plant is scared shitless to reform Zep for one last go, not because of the whole jukebox thing, but because it would be extremely successful, and more of the Jimmy show. I think that would really bother Plant, the fact that Zep would completely overshadow his solo work and his identity as a solo artist. The only way Plant would agree to a one last go Zep tour would be if he were broke, and he is far, far from that so, goodnight Irene.

Anyone who believes Zep would have carried on post-March 1981 is living in fantasy land. Plant & Jones would have carried on exactly as they did, the only question is would Jimmy and Bonzo have teamed up to do their own thing?

Were it not for a contractual obligation to Atlantic and their respect for Ahmet there never would have been a Coda.

You have every right to makes assertions, but for me they are meaningless because there is nothing whatsoever to substantiate them. Find a pre-1980 Plant quote along the lines of "I've got a burning desire to launch a solo career" and I'd be more open-minded about this.

Were it not for the MTV Unplugged offer/opportunity, there probably never would have been a Page/Plant in the '90s.

We have no earthly idea if Led Zeppelin would have carried on post-1980. I happen to be of the opinion they're days probably were numbered, for many reasons, however we will simply never know. I can see why some feel the band was entering a renaissance of sorts, and had the talent to continue to deliver engaging and relevant musical output. I can also see why some feel the band essentially died in August 1975.   

15 hours ago, Mithril46 said:

I think Sticks was on to something about had Bonzo not passed, a 2 leg US tour, then a 1 and a half/2 yr layoff.

We do know Robert would only agree to no more than one month of touring at the time (Autumn 1980).

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Were it not for a contractual obligation to Atlantic and their respect for Ahmet there never would have been a Coda.

A half-hearted release, at best.  While we would have paid double for it because it had unreleased material, it ran only 33 minutes and included the "I Can't Quit You" we had already heard from the 1969 BBC performance, which many fans had taped off the radio (Westwood One broadcast it a few times in the early 1980s).  It just made everybody sadder about the death of Bonham and the band.

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2 hours ago, Mercurious said:

A half-hearted release, at best.  While we would have paid double for it because it had unreleased material, it ran only 33 minutes and included the "I Can't Quit You" we had already heard from the 1969 BBC performance, which many fans had taped off the radio (Westwood One broadcast it a few times in the early 1980s).  It just made everybody sadder about the death of Bonham and the band.

I'd rather have Coda than not have Coda. Poor Tom, Walter's Walk, etc.. John Bonham is like a relentless battering ram through the whole thing. It's a great  tribute.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, the chase said:

I'd rather have Coda than not have Coda. Poor Tom, Walter's Walk, etc.. John Bonham is like a relentless battering ram through the whole thing. It's a great  tribute.

Well, I sure ran out and bought it. I missed "(Hey Hey) what can I do" but would rather have Coda than not have it. Bonzo's Montreux!!

Edited by Mercurious

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1 hour ago, Mercurious said:

Well, I sure ran out and bought it. I missed "(Hey Hey) what can I do" but would rather have Coda than not have it. Bonzo's Montreux!!

By the way, did Page ever give an explanation as to why he didn't include "(Hey Hey) What Can I Do)" on to the original Coda LP? There was certainly enough room for the track, as well as the Led Zep I outtakes. The original Coda album was around 30 minutes.

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25 minutes ago, ThreeSticks said:

By the way, did Page ever give an explanation as to why he didn't include "(Hey Hey) What Can I Do)" on to the original Coda LP? There was certainly enough room for the track, as well as the Led Zep I outtakes. The original Coda album was around 30 minutes.

Not really. Not everybody had the Japanese "Immigrant Song"/"Hey Hey" single. Or the Atlantic comp "Hey Hey" was on. I still don't understand why he didn't put it on the original Coda.

I missed "White Summer/Black Mountain Side" too - there was enough room for both, and there was a near flawless version of that played in the same BBC set as "I Can't Quit You, Baby".  I assume he included the Dixon blues because the playing on that is so good. Then why not White Summer, too?  Never made any sense to me, whatever reason. But at least I had that on my BBC concert tapes (prized possessions in the 1980s). 

We shouldn't complain, I know, and he did include both songs on the first CD box set in 1990. 

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Ha Ha. Page has to give explanations for explanations, and there the interview gets testy or Jimbo gives some half

bull answer. With Hey Hey Jimmy might say not enough space on the LP, yet of course there is. Or the song needed

more production/mixing, yet the song as heard on the radio or single sounds good to go. Jimmy is well known 

as being a brick wall or outright fibber regarding  many matters, although not pathologically. On the continuation of

Zep with Bonzo(no death), I can't see into Plant's mind, but I'm sure some can't see Robert wanting out as soon

as possible. Forget the money, the fame(well for now) , Zep had become radioactive for him. He was basically dragged

kicking and screaming just for that pt.1 80' US tour. 2nd leg doubtful.

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5 hours ago, Mercurious said:

included the "I Can't Quit You" we had already heard from the 1969 BBC performance

I thought "I Can't Quit You Baby" was from the 1970 RAH performance. Am I wrong?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ZepHead315 said:

I thought "I Can't Quit You Baby" was from the 1970 RAH performance. Am I wrong?

Hmm. Sounds the same as the 1969 BBC live show to me.  When Coda was originally released, the liner notes said it was recorded at a rehearsal, which I knew couldn't be right b/c it sounded identical to the BBC live version.  That was confusing. At the time there was no DVD or anything of the RAH show, so it had to be the BBC version, or so I thought.  Did he change it to RAH later on?

The album notes also say "We're Gonna Groove" was recorded at Morgan Studios, but that's clearly from RAH.  Guess he didn't want people to know any of it was live?

EDIT NOTE - The BBC show is the complete Playhouse Theatre "One Night Stand" show originally aired Aug. 1969. Opens with Communications Breakdown, goes into ICQYB, Dazed, White Summer, You Shook Me, HMMTs. Taped it off of Westwood One or WXRT-Chicago's Sunday Night Unconcert series. You could also tape the 1971 Paris Theatre BBC concert, aired once a year or so. 

Edited by Mercurious

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Wait.....the Coda version of Wer'e Gonna Groove is live ?? Page added in some overdubs, and the solo on the Coda version

is completely not live. I forget all the official BBC releases, maybe that's what is being mentioned ???

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15 hours ago, Mercurious said:

Hmm. Sounds the same as the 1969 BBC live show to me.  When Coda was originally released, the liner notes said it was recorded at a rehearsal, which I knew couldn't be right b/c it sounded identical to the BBC live version.  That was confusing. At the time there was no DVD or anything of the RAH show, so it had to be the BBC version, or so I thought.  Did he change it to RAH later on?

The album notes also say "We're Gonna Groove" was recorded at Morgan Studios, but that's clearly from RAH.  Guess he didn't want people to know any of it was live?

EDIT NOTE - The BBC show is the complete Playhouse Theatre "One Night Stand" show originally aired Aug. 1969. Opens with Communications Breakdown, goes into ICQYB, Dazed, White Summer, You Shook Me, HMMTs. Taped it off of Westwood One or WXRT-Chicago's Sunday Night Unconcert series. You could also tape the 1971 Paris Theatre BBC concert, aired once a year or so. 

I can't quit you from coda was from the RAH. The actual show not the rehearsal, this has been documented by Dave Lewis. We're gonna groove basic track and vocals are from RAH with overdubs added at Sol studios for the release.

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As for Plant never leaving Bonham behind in Zeppelin, I'm not buying it.

If Bonham hadn't died, my gut feeling is that the band would have staggered on for a bit in the 1980s before imploding.

Most likely scenario would be Plant leaving, or taking a long hiatus and doing some other stuff.

Not necessarily because he really wanted a solo career, but because he was sick of the drug addictions and all the baggage and bad memories that came with Zep, i.e. his son.

Sometimes you have to move on.

 

 

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