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RockDude4492

New Mystery Soundboard?

641 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Is it just me or is Page incredibly buried  at spots, and at times he is totally absent (Kashmir, the first break)?

The mixer seems to be actively palying with levels, and seems intent on leaving JP out unless it's a specific solo.

Oh, and is Bonzo in a shitty mood? Some chatter sounds like he is pissed at someone or something.

Oh, and that chatter you can hear is brilliant!

Edited by rm2551

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Awesome show, but I was disappointed with the mix for Kashmir 

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1 hour ago, rm2551 said:

Is it just me or is Page incredibly buried  at spots, and at times he is totally absent (Kashmir, the first break)?

The mixer seems to be actively palying with levels, and seems intent on leaving JP out unless it's a specific solo.

Oh, and is Bonzo in a shitty mood? Some chatter sounds like he is pissed at someone or something.

Oh, and that chatter you can hear is brilliant!

That is the nature of soundboards.

An audience tape is a recording of the sound as it comes out of the PA system (and onstage amps if the recorder is close enough). A soundboard is the mix the soundman has to make to make the sound suitable for the concert audience.

Different arenas and concert venues have different acoustics, which calls for different EQ settings. Some places only require moderate adjustments to the instrument settings. Others require more...the bass may need to be pushed way up to be heard adequately while the guitar needs to be reduced so as not to overpower the vocals and drums. 

Whatever settings the soundman settles on, those are the levels that are being fed into the tape machine recording off the soundboard. It's a common problem with soundboards. I have a soundboard of a Jane's Addiction club gig from 1987 that is practically all vocals and drums for most of the tape. You can hear Eric's bass a little but Dave's guitar is practically non-existent.

 

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15 minutes ago, Strider said:

That is the nature of soundboards.

An audience tape is a recording of the sound as it comes out of the PA system (and onstage amps if the recorder is close enough). A soundboard is the mix the soundman has to make to make the sound suitable for the concert audience.

Different arenas and concert venues have different acoustics, which calls for different EQ settings. Some places only require moderate adjustments to the instrument settings. Others require more...the bass may need to be pushed way up to be heard adequately while the guitar needs to be reduced so as not to overpower the vocals and drums. 

Whatever settings the soundman settles on, those are the levels that are being fed into the tape machine recording off the soundboard. It's a common problem with soundboards. I have a soundboard of a Jane's Addiction club gig from 1987 that is practically all vocals and drums for most of the tape. You can hear Eric's bass a little but Dave's guitar is practically non-existent.

 

Yeah mate good post. I find with the Mudslide bootleg (at least the one I have) is all drums. Can hardly hear the guitar

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Thanks Strider, good to know. I have not heard a Zep soundboard that has the guitar missing like this so pronounced before.

 

I'm still wondering if there was an issue in Kashmir that took JP out for a change of guitar or emergency repair or something as I don't hear him at all in parts.

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4 hours ago, rm2551 said:

Is it just me or is Page incredibly buried  at spots, and at times he is totally absent (Kashmir, the first break)?

The mixer seems to be actively palying with levels, and seems intent on leaving JP out unless it's a specific solo.

Oh, and is Bonzo in a shitty mood? Some chatter sounds like he is pissed at someone or something.

Oh, and that chatter you can hear is brilliant!

It doesn't seem like it to me...you can even hear him say to Robert "take your time, I'm in no hurry" prior to "Moby Dick".  I agree that it's awesome to be able to hear the chatter between them!

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In D&C when Bonzo yells

"DO IT AGAIN!"

"DO IT AGAIN!"

"DO IT AGAIN!"

at the drum and guitar "slam" part. Fucking gold.

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9 hours ago, Strider said:

IpMan, I appreciate your curiosity and diligence in seeking input from the bass-playing community. It is always good to have as much input from as many viewpoints as possible.

No offense to the bass-crowd you talked with, but I take exception to what they seem to imply with one of their statements. Yes, the arena rumbled when Jones hit his Alembic bass. But if they are implying that it didn't rumble in 1975 or 1973 with his Fenders, that is wrong. His Fender bass shook and rumbled the building along with your bones just as much as the Alembics did in 1977 (and I assume 1979 and 1980).

But there was a slight difference and maybe this played a part in Jones' decision to switch. While Jones' Fender bass sounds awesome on the tapes of the early tours, especially in 1975, the actual sound you heard in the concert hall was a trifle less articulated. With the extreme loudness and reverberation of the Forum (or whatever concert venue) the bass was more of a general boom-boom presence...a persistent low throbbing rumble anchoring the bottom end of the spectrum. When other instruments were silent or muted (the opening of "Dazed and Confused" for instance), the bass notes rang clear. But when the band was in full roar ("The Song Remains the Same", "Rock and Roll") it was often hard to pick out what Jones was playing in the din. The exception was the wood bass Jones used in 1975 for the encores. That bass registered a little more clearly, especially the upper registers.

Many rock concerts had this same problem...the bass would just be an indistinct rumble in the arena-sized shows.

Cut to 1977 and the Alembics more trebly (and twangy at times) presence announced itself more clearly in the hall. But it also had a powerful bottom end. The problem is, for some reason or another, the sound didn't translate to tape.

So for those keeping score: The Fenders sounded clearer on tape than in the hall while the Alembics sounded better in the hall than on tape.

I still prefer the Fender for some songs...TSRTS, Heartbreaker, Whole Lotta Love. But for Achilles, NFBM, and even Over the Hills and Far Away, the Alembic made sense.

That upright bass sounded pretty sweet, too.

Don't forget the fretless bass used on IMTOD...one of Mr. Jones best bass works. Seeing him play that live, his hands and fingers flying all over the neck, simply WOW!

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Posted (edited)

Listend to this whole concert and all I can say is, incredible. What a great show. Now there were a few "low" points but nothing major:

Kashmir - It just sounded weak and the mix was all over the place. Nothing but mellotron, then some guitars, then just mellotron, and then in the end all of a sudden...you can hear the bass pedals way up in your face. The whole song, no bass pedals and then...BAM! Nothing but bass pedals.

Sick Again - As I mentioned prior, the song is good, the solo is good, however the solo sounds like a work in progress. Jimmy has ideas but never quite follows through on any of them.

That's it really and again, nothing major.

 

Now for just a snippet of the highs:

D&C - Holy shit! Possibly the holy grail of the long D&C's. Page executes perfectly, bringing varying ideas into fruition and then merging with a new direction and something wonderful. For such a long D&C it feels much shorter. This IMO is the zenith of the long jam D&C's. Bonzo is all over the place yet locked tight as can be with Page and Jones. Changes galore in the second half of song, all executed perfectly despite no rhyme or reason. How the hell do they do that?

Communication Breakdown - Just great, everyone is great here. JP does a very different solo for this but it works.

Black Dog - Nice, juicy version.

No Quarter - One of the best versions I have heard with Jimmy playing around on the nut quite a bit, and doing wild, truncated bends simulating the sound of a whammy bar a bit. He would construct the perfect, greatest NQ solo two months later on May 23rd and you can hear the beginnings of that here.

Moby Dick - Another long tune that goes by quickly, and I usually don't like drum solos longer than 10 min. Bonzo on this is like Jimmy on D&C, ideas and phrases galore all weaving together. The song simply flows.

Heartbreaker - Except for the flub on the one-handed solo, the song smokes. Once Jimmy gets hand number two back on the guitar, the solo is brilliant and moves in different directions as well.  Very well articulated. 

IMTOD - Holy Shit!

 

It appears the word of the day was changes. This is in effect, the heaviest prog-rock (please bear with me here) you will ever hear. The prog-rock part I mean in extended jams like D&C & NQ where there are so many parts, so many time changes, rhythms and polyrhythms interweaving. Classical, jazz, blues, you name it, its there. To think only three musicians made such music live, Now that is rather impressive.

 

That being said, hows about NY 13-6-77 or LA 22-6-77 up next.

Edited by IpMan

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8 hours ago, rm2551 said:

Is it just me or is Page incredibly buried  at spots, and at times he is totally absent (Kashmir, the first break)?

The mixer seems to be actively palying with levels, and seems intent on leaving JP out unless it's a specific solo.

Oh, and is Bonzo in a shitty mood? Some chatter sounds like he is pissed at someone or something.

Oh, and that chatter you can hear is brilliant!

The first part of NQ, Page is very quiet.

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I think this is the best Dazed & Confused I've ever heard. Love the timing mistake & recovery coming into the end of the mid section.

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Play the audience tape of "Kashmir" from 3-21 Seattle. If you hear Jimmy's guitar then you know the problem is an unbalanced soundboard. If you don't hear the guitar then it would seem Jimmy had a technical issue with his guitar at that moment. Broken string, shorted wire, something like that.

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Hey this question is for those out there who are making matrix out of shows. Would a matrix sound good of the sbd and the audience recording or would the recordings not mesh? Anyone tried yet? What issues if any have you run into?

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Posted (edited)

The '75 tour is my favorite, and no doubt the high quality soundboard recordings are a big part of that.

So, first of all, I'm thrilled to have this. But, to me, it's not the best of the tour.  

The performance is excellent, the recording is clear and strong, as usual for this tour, but I would still put the February NYC/Nassau shows ahead of this and also the March Ft. Worth/Dallas shows. 

This is easily better than the plodding March 17 show and the Vancouver shows. While everything is really good, there wasn't anything that really blew me away. But there are some "bonuses" along the way: 

  • The little hint of "White Summer" just before "Kashmir." Wonder if this is when he first had the idea of sliding into "Kashmir" from "WS/BMS".  
  • Just as Plant is announcing the addition of "Since I've Been Loving You", Jimmy plays a little "Lemon Song" riff. Love that you can hear him ask what the change in the program is.
  • "I Shot the Sheriff" as part of "Dazed and Confused"? Blows my mind. The one and only time...right? 
  • Toward the end of "Whole Lotta Love", Jimmy employs some groovy licks worthy of Motown. The funk is in the house! 
  • On "Communication Breakdown," Page uses a tone I have never heard him use before. Is that pedal action? I'm not a guitar head...a tribute to Hendrix perhaps? It made me think of "Crosstown Traffic" for some reason. 
And...a stellar "No Quarter" and rare SIBLY are always welcome. 
Edited by pujols05

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So far my favorite thing is the bass sound, especially in the Crunge and the theramin jam section.  

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15 hours ago, JTM said:

The first part of NQ, Page is very quiet.

Correction, not the first part at all. At about twelve mins when Page comes back in near the end of JPJ's piano solo the guitar is buried low in the background, but it's just as low in the audience recording.

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I think this new release cements this show's status as one of Zep's all-time greats.  Nothing disappointing about it, no flaws disguised by the audience recording brought to the fore, just an all-around amazing performance.  (And since I'm a typical greedy fan, can't wait for the 2nd Long Beach show to come out!)

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59 minutes ago, JohnOsbourne said:

I think this new release cements this show's status as one of Zep's all-time greats.  Nothing disappointing about it, no flaws disguised by the audience recording brought to the fore, just an all-around amazing performance.  (And since I'm a typical greedy fan, can't wait for the 2nd Long Beach show to come out!)

I'm with you 100%!  I don't remember noticing the slight screw-ups at the beginning of "Trampled Under Foot" on the audience recording, but that hardly takes away from the rest of the show--or the rest of the song, for that matter!

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9 hours ago, Bonzo_fan said:

I'm with you 100%!  I don't remember noticing the slight screw-ups at the beginning of "Trampled Under Foot" on the audience recording, but that hardly takes away from the rest of the show--or the rest of the song, for that matter!

Yeah, they also mess up the chorus before the solos, only real screw-up on the audience tape as well, hardly matters as it's still a smoking version.

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Posted (edited)

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 4:20 PM, pujols05 said:

On "Communication Breakdown," Page uses a tone I have never heard him use before. Is that pedal action? I'm not a guitar head...a tribute to Hendrix perhaps? It made me think of "Crosstown Traffic" for some reason. 

I think he's got a phase shifter or a flanger on with the speed turned up. It's the same effect he uses on the chorus of 'Sick Again' (when the "You know I'm the one you want" part comes in). It does sound really cool here.

Edited by Frawls

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42 years later and they still floor us like they still are releasing music.

Which other fans get this? None.

Will devour this show this week.

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Regarding people's complaints about the sound and Jimmy being low in the mix, isn't this par for the course for EVSD? It seems like every big release they have is botched somehow and they come out with a "fixed" version later.

Examples: The March 11 Long Beach soundboard was released at too slow a speed. The 1977 Forum box set "A Week for Badgeholders" was an unqualified disaster...not one of the six shows featured an upgrade in sound. On the contrary, the sound on some (June 23) was significantly worse than before. The February 12 MSG and February 16 St. Louis soundboards were flawed and dry on their initial release. I could go on but you get the idea.

So here is a thought...knowing that their releases get fed immediately to torrents, maybe EVSD purposely messes with the sound on the first issue of a new tape? That way, if it is fed to the torrents it will be flawed in some way. Then EVSD can later release the "corrected" or "remastered" version and make people pay twice for a source that could have been released in perfect sound the first time.

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3 hours ago, Strider said:

Regarding people's complaints about the sound and Jimmy being low in the mix, isn't this par for the course for EVSD? It seems like every big release they have is botched somehow and they come out with a "fixed" version later.

Examples: The March 11 Long Beach soundboard was released at too slow a speed. The 1977 Forum box set "A Week for Badgeholders" was an unqualified disaster...not one of the six shows featured an upgrade in sound. On the contrary, the sound on some (June 23) was significantly worse than before. The February 12 MSG and February 16 St. Louis soundboards were flawed and dry on their initial release. I could go on but you get the idea.

So here is a thought...knowing that their releases get fed immediately to torrents, maybe EVSD purposely messes with the sound on the first issue of a new tape? That way, if it is fed to the torrents it will be flawed in some way. Then EVSD can later release the "corrected" or "remastered" version and make people pay twice for a source that could have been released in perfect sound the first time.

You're right on the botch strategy...only this time, I think it's the Showco's sound tech's fault. The settings are a bit too low for Jimmy's lead guitar. Even Kevin Shirley could not remedy this because the signal on a 1/4" tape is what it is, you can EQ/brick wall/pitch/compress the Sh*t out of the source tape, but you not correct the balance between instruments on a reel to reel or SB cassette. For this particular title the  Empress chaps could not do a 'OK Let's put Page's guitar under a blanket for the initial release and get it cleared up for the remastered Christmas re-issue'.

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4 hours ago, Strider said:

Regarding people's complaints about the sound and Jimmy being low in the mix, isn't this par for the course for EVSD? It seems like every big release they have is botched somehow and they come out with a "fixed" version later.

Examples: The March 11 Long Beach soundboard was released at too slow a speed. The 1977 Forum box set "A Week for Badgeholders" was an unqualified disaster...not one of the six shows featured an upgrade in sound. On the contrary, the sound on some (June 23) was significantly worse than before. The February 12 MSG and February 16 St. Louis soundboards were flawed and dry on their initial release. I could go on but you get the idea.

So here is a thought...knowing that their releases get fed immediately to torrents, maybe EVSD purposely messes with the sound on the first issue of a new tape? That way, if it is fed to the torrents it will be flawed in some way. Then EVSD can later release the "corrected" or "remastered" version and make people pay twice for a source that could have been released in perfect sound the first time.

Is there a speed corrected version of the march 11 Long Beach show around?

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Posted (edited)

29 minutes ago, rebeldhipi said:

Is there a speed corrected version of the march 11 Long Beach show around?

Dadgad did a SPC version of the EVSD SBD.  I'd expect the Godfather release 'An American Return' is probably speed corrected too.

Edited by johnlennon696

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