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Walter

2017 NFL Thread

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4 hours ago, IpMan said:

C'mon Steve, really, what is the big deal? I served in combat, and I did so to ensure people can do exactly what these players are doing. It's called standing up for ones First Amendment rights. Don't you understand that by denying these players, or anyone else for that matter, the freedom to express themselves by kneeling during the anthem you are essentially proving to them and everyone else that America does not support the Bill of Rights.

I am not going to get into a political discussion for obvious reasons but I think you are a smart guy Steve, you know better. This is exactly what makes America a great country. Not so much in what we have done, but for what we are supposed to represent. Freedom.

The fact is, the only way to disrespect the flag is to REQUIRE people to respect it and the national anthem. Respect must be earned and if certain people believe that they are not being respected, so be it. That is what makes America great.

 

Let me educate you, IpMan, and in so doing many others. The First Amendment does not nor has it ever protected the free speech rights of employees under contract to an employer. For example, a Wal Mart greeter cannot pontificate to customers about social injustice without facing possible negative consequences. Similarly, the minority of NFL players (about 200 out 1,800 total) who have chosen to disrespect the anthem, the flag and the nation on the playing field are not exercising their First Amendment rights, they are bringing discredit upon themselves and their employer, the NFL. The NFL accepted several million dollars to have the anthem played prior to each game, and furthermore NFL'S OWN RULE BOOK prohibits these demonstrative displays during the anthem. It states in clear and unambiguous terms what is expected of the players. However, the NFL has failed to enforce their own policy. If all this was not bad enough, were seeing "protest gestures" on the field of play during the games, for example after a tackle is made. Enough is enough. The audacity of millionaire players and billionaire owners in publicly-financed stadiums continuing to denigrate this great country on every given Sunday is unacceptable.

To continue to support the NFL is to continue to eat where you know they spit in your food.         

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To say people are going to stop watching football because of this is just ridiculous.   It wont happen.  Too much tradition.  Once the ball is kicked off the focus changes.  I hate Trump so I am against anything he does because everything he does is knee jerk.  He stole the election and now is stealing the spotlight again in sports.  Not with me he isnt.

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53 minutes ago, LedZeppfan1977 said:

To say people are going to stop watching football because of this is just ridiculous.   It wont happen.  Too much tradition.  Once the ball is kicked off the focus changes.  I hate Trump so I am against anything he does because everything he does is knee jerk.  He stole the election and now is stealing the spotlight again in sports.  Not with me he isnt.

Majority of the country agrees with you Rick. He tried to take down the NFL once and drove the usfl into bankruptcy. Another personal vendetta that we're caught in the middle of. NFL has never been more popular and profitable.

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53 minutes ago, Walter said:

Majority of the country agrees with you Rick. He tried to take down the NFL once and drove the usfl into bankruptcy. Another personal vendetta that we're caught in the middle of. NFL has never been more popular and profitable.

Some guy on the radio said that "Trump is taking on the NFL and he will lose."  I agree.

Might as well call the Eagles a farm team of the Buffalo Bills.  Matthews, that trade was highway robbery.  We get a superstar.  The Rams made out good.  Philly is ok, but Darby is not a skill position player.  Our secondary is one of the big surprises of the early season and this rookie CB White has been spectacular.  Without Ryan's bro to screw things up, we have one of the best defenses in football.  I think comparable to Minnesota and Seattle for sure.  Our front line with Jerry Hughes and with Alexander at LB coming in to rush the passer is top notch and don't forget K Williams. Its simple, if Tyrod plays decent, we can get in.  And so far so good.  We have a thankless game this week in Atlanta.  Being sent to hell.  No tougher place to win a game.  

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We have someone here who has contributed exactly twice to this thread in 6 months.  One post was about Kaepernick's lack of a job, the other about an anthem protest.  Both were posted out of the blue without any relevance to what others were discussing.  Both posts were purely meant to antagonize, and were meant to have more to do with politics than football.  Where's the moderator ?      

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4 minutes ago, Bong-Man said:

We have someone here who has contributed exactly twice to this thread in 6 months.  One post was about Kaepernick's lack of a job, the other about an anthem protest.  Both were posted out of the blue without any relevance to what others were discussing.  Both posts were purely meant to antagonize, and were meant to have more to do with politics than football.  Where's the moderator ?      

Are you an ostrich? NFL player protests have become THE story of this season. Even so, I'm not here to beat a dead horse. I said what I had to say, and I had every right to say it. One last thing, for those who think this will just blow over, you couldn't be more wrong. I am right and I will be proven right. The bottom line is this is NOT going to make the NFL more popular.

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1 hour ago, SteveAJones said:

Are you an ostrich? NFL player protests have become THE story of this season. Even so, I'm not here to beat a dead horse. I said what I had to say, and I had every right to say it. One last thing, for those who think this will just blow over, you couldn't be more wrong. I am right and I will be proven right. The bottom line is this is NOT going to make the NFL more popular.

In some regards the public has a short memory.  The NFL is well established and has already had its problem with credibility on officiating and other matters like defaltegate and spygate.  Ultimately the protests must stop at some point or owners and the commissioner will have to step in and put up fines.  Large ones.  You cannot just fire a guy under contract for expressing his right for freedom of speech and that bastard Trump should know that.  Once again he has overstepped.  I am not saying they are right for protesting, but Trump needs to stick to more important matters like N Korea. 

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7 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Let me educate you, IpMan, and in so doing many others. The First Amendment does not nor has it ever protected the free speech rights of employees under contract to an employer. For example, a Wal Mart greeter cannot pontificate to customers about social injustice without facing possible negative consequences. Similarly, the minority of NFL players (about 200 out 1,800 total) who have chosen to disrespect the anthem, the flag and the nation on the playing field are not exercising their First Amendment rights, they are bringing discredit upon themselves and their employer, the NFL. The NFL accepted several million dollars to have the anthem played prior to each game, and furthermore NFL'S OWN RULE BOOK prohibits these demonstrative displays during the anthem. It states in clear and unambiguous terms what is expected of the players. However, the NFL has failed to enforce their own policy. If all this was not bad enough, were seeing "protest gestures" on the field of play during the games, for example after a tackle is made. Enough is enough. The audacity of millionaire players and billionaire owners in publicly-financed stadiums continuing to denigrate this great country on every given Sunday is unacceptable.

To continue to support the NFL is to continue to eat where you know they spit in your food.         

Gee, thanks for educating me Steve, and here I thought I was fighting for the freedom of all Americans when in fact it was to ensure that corporations do not have to follow the First Amendment regarding their employees. Of course you are correct that the First Amendment does not mention terms of employment (go figure), then again nor should it. If someone engages in a peaceful protest for a couple of brief minutes during the non-play portion of a game, who cares? What is the big deal? By that logic Trump should have been impeached the first time he tweeted any personal opinion once taking office. After all, he is a paid employee of the US government and I do not appreciate my tax dollars supporting some jackass wanking off on America's time.

So, by your very own logic, not only should the protest players be fired, but so should Donald Trump. Thanks Steve, I can get behind that. Sounds like a more than equitable trade off.

Edited by IpMan

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1 hour ago, Bong-Man said:

We have someone here who has contributed exactly twice to this thread in 6 months.  One post was about Kaepernick's lack of a job, the other about an anthem protest.  Both were posted out of the blue without any relevance to what others were discussing.  Both posts were purely meant to antagonize, and were meant to have more to do with politics than football.  Where's the moderator ?      

You know how level the playing field is...

1 hour ago, Bong-Man said:

^^

Just take the man's advice and just go watch NASCAR make a 1,000 left turns.  

Exactly. And this is coming from a racing fan, NASCAR in particular. But that sport is definitely in a slow death spiral. Talk about plummeting attendance, ratings, and corporate partners...

I read a very interesting stat the other day. 5 years ago only one NFL franchise was valued over $2 billion (Dallas), now the average franchise value is $2.5 billion. 

 

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10 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Let me educate you, IpMan, and in so doing many others. The First Amendment does not nor has it ever protected the free speech rights of employees under contract to an employer. For example, a Wal Mart greeter cannot pontificate to customers about social injustice without facing possible negative consequences. Similarly, the minority of NFL players (about 200 out 1,800 total) who have chosen to disrespect the anthem, the flag and the nation on the playing field are not exercising their First Amendment rights, they are bringing discredit upon themselves and their employer, the NFL. The NFL accepted several million dollars to have the anthem played prior to each game, and furthermore NFL'S OWN RULE BOOK prohibits these demonstrative displays during the anthem. It states in clear and unambiguous terms what is expected of the players. However, the NFL has failed to enforce their own policy. If all this was not bad enough, were seeing "protest gestures" on the field of play during the games, for example after a tackle is made. Enough is enough. The audacity of millionaire players and billionaire owners in publicly-financed stadiums continuing to denigrate this great country on every given Sunday is unacceptable.

To continue to support the NFL is to continue to eat where you know they spit in your food.         

 

There is no such rule in the NFL rule book.  (There is guidance in the operations manual -but not a rule, so no contractual violation.)  I think you were reading some Facebook fake news. 

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23 hours ago, Stryder1978 said:

The only NFL team that matters.....thanks to Jerry Jones! 

Hahaha. Turns out your boy Jerry Jones and the Cowboys kneeled after all. Oh, the horror.

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5 hours ago, Bong-Man said:

^^

Just take the man's advice and just go watch NASCAR make a 1,000 left turns.  

:hysterical: +1

 

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17 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

You can fuck off. I'm not the one disrespecting the flag on the field, as has been going on for quite some time now. The PRESIDENT merely called them out for their bullshit. I predict the lowest television ratings for a season and a Super Bowl in league history. Bet! 

 

 

That's your response? Tucker Carlson? That says all I need to know about how you get your information, Steve.

So this football thread has been going on for months and all of a sudden Steve and Stryder follow the dog-whistle of Trump and try to come on here and stir up trouble. 

Just as the National Anthem was a tempest in a teapot until Trump needed a distraction from his failed healthcare, Mueller, and N. Korea and he decided to make the NFL a wedge issue to divide the country once again. He couldn't be bothered to criticize Nazis ("some fine people") but he calls NFL players "sons of bitches", insulting every player and his mother. Very presidential.

Colin Kapaernick would have eventually faded away and you would have seen very few anthem demonstrations. But once Trump's narcissism got the better of him and he decided to go after the NFL, it was heartening to see the conservative NFL stand behind its players and show a united front against the ignorant attack from the President.

What was striking was how much more thoughtful and articulate the players and owners were on the issue than Trump and his sycophants. This began as a protest against police brutality, especially the rise in shootings of unarmed men. It had nothing to do with Trump...Obama was in office when Colin started this as a way to give a voice to the voiceless poor minorities who were sick and tired of their complaints of police brutality being ignored or swept under the rug.

Personally, I would prefer players to stand during the anthem and register their grievance or protest in some other fashion. But as a veteran I don't take offense to it nor do I think they are spitting or disrespecting the country.

Too many Trump supporters resort to easy clichés like "Love it or leave" and "support the troops". They conflate the flag with the constitution. The flag is merely a symbol. It is not more important than our constitution, though. And if you want to really support the troops, stop voting for politicians that cut Veterans health care and send soldiers off to war without a clear reason and plan.

Trump once again fails to be presidential in any way, shape or form. There are many, thoughtful ways to have a reasoned, rational debate about this issue. Trump, of course, did nothing of the sort. Instead of being a leader of this country, he continues to just feed red-meat to his ever-shrinking base and decided to divide-and-conquer by turning this into a wedge-issue with poorly thought out and vulgar tweets. He created a dumpster fire just to distract.

This, while Puerto Rico is devastated by a hurricane. American citizens are in distress and Trump is endlessly tweeting about the NFL. He also had 4 tweets about McCain.

Tweets about Puerto Rico: 0!

The NFL will survive this...as will the country. Eventually.

Now let's get back to football.

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1 hour ago, Strider said:

That's your response? Tucker Carlson? That says all I need to know about how you get your information, Steve.

So this football thread has been going on for months and all of a sudden Steve and Stryder follow the dog-whistle of Trump and try to come on here and stir up trouble. 

Just as the National Anthem was a tempest in a teapot until Trump needed a distraction from his failed healthcare, Mueller, and N. Korea and he decided to make the NFL a wedge issue to divide the country once again. He couldn't be bothered to criticize Nazis ("some fine people") but he calls NFL players "sons of bitches", insulting every player and his mother. Very presidential.

Colin Kapaernick would have eventually faded away and you would have seen very few anthem demonstrations. But once Trump's narcissism got the better of him and he decided to go after the NFL, it was heartening to see the conservative NFL stand behind its players and show a united front against the ignorant attack from the President.

What was striking was how much more thoughtful and articulate the players and owners were on the issue than Trump and his sycophants. This began as a protest against police brutality, especially the rise in shootings of unarmed men. It had nothing to do with Trump...Obama was in office when Colin started this as a way to give a voice to the voiceless poor minorities who were sick and tired of their complaints of police brutality being ignored or swept under the rug.

Personally, I would prefer players to stand during the anthem and register their grievance or protest in some other fashion. But as a veteran I don't take offense to it nor do I think they are spitting or disrespecting the country.

Too many Trump supporters resort to easy clichés like "Love it or leave" and "support the troops". They conflate the flag with the constitution. The flag is merely a symbol. It is not more important than our constitution, though. And if you want to really support the troops, stop voting for politicians that cut Veterans health care and send soldiers off to war without a clear reason and plan.

Trump once again fails to be presidential in any way, shape or form. There are many, thoughtful ways to have a reasoned, rational debate about this issue. Trump, of course, did nothing of the sort. Instead of being a leader of this country, he continues to just feed red-meat to his ever-shrinking base and decided to divide-and-conquer by turning this into a wedge-issue with poorly thought out and vulgar tweets. He created a dumpster fire just to distract.

This, while Puerto Rico is devastated by a hurricane. American citizens are in distress and Trump is endlessly tweeting about the NFL. He also had 4 tweets about McCain.

Tweets about Puerto Rico: 0!

The NFL will survive this...as will the country. Eventually.

Now let's get back to football.

:notworthy: 

Glad you said it, so it can be heard - instead of deleted! ✌🏻

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How about them Cowboys! I guess Dak and the 'boys aren't dead just yet - much to the chagrin of the naysayers! 

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16 minutes ago, Walter said:

How about them Cowboys! I guess Dak and the 'boys aren't dead just yet - much to the chagrin of the naysayers! 

Not sure if Wade can fix the Rams D in a week but the Rams are going to bring their offense. Dallas beat a team with a bunch  of problems last night but they did bounce back.  But I am not sold they are the cream of the crop of the NFC

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15 minutes ago, LedZeppfan1977 said:

Not sure if Wade can fix the Rams D in a week but the Rams are going to bring their offense. Dallas beat a team with a bunch  of problems last night but they did bounce back.  But I am not sold they are the cream of the crop of the NFC

They aren't, but this young defense is getting better. Rams are young and hungry too. Should be a good matchup!

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50 minutes ago, Walter said:

How about them Cowboys! I guess Dak and the 'boys aren't dead just yet - much to the chagrin of the naysayers! 

 

31 minutes ago, LedZeppfan1977 said:

Not sure if Wade can fix the Rams D in a week but the Rams are going to bring their offense. Dallas beat a team with a bunch  of problems last night but they did bounce back.  But I am not sold they are the cream of the crop of the NFC

I don't recall anyone saying the Cowboys were dead, not after only two games. The only thing dead for sure is Carson Palmer's arm.

The NFC West is a disaster. 8-8, maybe even 7-9, could win the division. So scratch every team in that division.

Green Bay and Atlanta are the class of their divisions. Maybe Detroit could step up if the refs could stop taking victories away from them?

That leaves the NFC East and Dallas, so far, appears to be the favourite above Washington, with the Giants and Eagles fumbling behind them.

So if we are talking about the class of the NFC...Atlanta, Dallas, and Green Bay are it. I need to see more from Washington and the Rams before I consider them valid contenders.

 

Edited by Strider

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20 minutes ago, Strider said:

 

I don't recall anyone saying the Cowboys were dead, not after only two games. The only thing dead for sure is Carson Palmer's arm.

The NFC West is a disaster. 8-8, maybe even 7-9, could win the division. So scratch every team in that division.

Green Bay and Atlanta are the class of their divisions. Maybe Detroit could step up if the refs could stop taking victories away from them?

That leaves the NFC East and Dallas, so far, appears to be the favourite above Washington, with the Giants and Eagles fumbling behind them.

So if we are talking about the class of the NFC...Atlanta, Dallas, and Green Bay are it. I need to see more from Washington and the Rams before I consider them valid contenders.

 

To me Atlanta is the best and Detroit and Minny might both prove to be better than Green Bay. I will pick the Eagles to win the East

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31 minutes ago, Strider said:

 

I don't recall anyone saying the Cowboys were dead, not after only two games. The only thing dead for sure is Carson Palmer's arm.

The NFC West is a disaster. 8-8, maybe even 7-9, could win the division. So scratch every team in that division.

Green Bay and Atlanta are the class of their divisions. Maybe Detroit could step up if the refs could stop taking victories away from them?

That leaves the NFC East and Dallas, so far, appears to be the favourite above Washington, with the Giants and Eagles fumbling behind them.

So if we are talking about the class of the NFC...Atlanta, Dallas, and Green Bay are it. I need to see more from Washington and the Rams before I consider them valid contenders.

 

Strider, that's all I heard last week. Dak was a flash in the pan, Zeke's troubles have caught up to him, the defense is broke down, etc. After the first quarter and a half into last night, I knew they'd turn it around. 

I agree with your assessment of the NFC. Philly and Washington look good, so far...

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46 minutes ago, Walter said:

Strider, that's all I heard last week. Dak was a flash in the pan, Zeke's troubles have caught up to him, the defense is broke down, etc. After the first quarter and a half into last night, I knew they'd turn it around. 

I agree with your assessment of the NFC. Philly and Washington look good, so far...

Yes, all the Cowboys-haters came crawling out of the woodwork after the Broncos game. I knew that game was a mulligan. They're going to be just fine. Washington has to play the Chiefs in Arrowhead next Monday - good luck with that... :rolleyes: Philly just lost Sproles for the year too, but both will probably finish ahead of the Giants - that team has real problems on offense, even with (and sometimes because of) Beckham.

Atlanta, GB, Dallas, with Detroit just behind them - the rest of the NFC is kind of an amorphous blob. Things will become clearer in a couple of weeks.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Walter said:

Strider, that's all I heard last week. Dak was a flash in the pan, Zeke's troubles have caught up to him, the defense is broke down, etc. After the first quarter and a half into last night, I knew they'd turn it around. 

I agree with your assessment of the NFC. Philly and Washington look good, so far...

To me Washington might be the toughest team in all of football to figure out?

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I have to admit, I really thought Atlanta would suffer a Super Bowl hangover. Especially given recent history...and especially the way they lost the Super Bowl.

But, much like the San Antonio Spurs after they choked against Miami, they seem to have used the loss as fuel for this season.

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