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blindwillie127

Suspicions

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This is a topic for those who are 'suspicious'  (as I am) that there are more multi tracked shows than we know of. I recently stated that I think Trentham Gardens '73 was professionally recorded. And, here's another one: Fort Worth 1975, and here's my reason. Its not that its such a great recording (which it is) but more so, its the way Plant mentions doing a "live album" before No Quarter. Again, its the way he's says it, almost telling the audience this show is being recorded. I have other suspicions as well, but I'm throwing this one out there to begin with. Listen to Plant hint at it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I saw it being discussed in the Trentham Gardens thread, and I'll bring it up here: I'm wondering if Montreux 1970 was multitracked. The newer soundboard portion released by Eat a Peach and EVSD sounds better than any soundboard that I can think of. Perfect balance and crystal clear sound. I'm not at all an audio expert so I'll let others chime in with their thoughts, but I think it's worth discussing:

 

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Has Page or anyone else in the band/in the know ever hinted at - or let slip - that there are multi's on someone's shelf somewhere that anyone here knows of? If not, sadly, I can't see how it is possible multitrack Led Zeppelin concerts have remained hidden from all for all these years.

One thing that works in favour of there being some material at hand is Page has not said there are no multitracks - or live material in the vaults. He always specifically referred to studio stuff when talking of the vaults during the remaster / re-release campaign and how "that was it". It makes sense that he always made that subtle distinction if guarding knowledge of live stuff without spilling the beans.

We will soon know. If in 2018 there is nothing released, I doubt there ever will be within Page's lifetime. If there is something, surely Page will play the cards he has left. Why hold them longer?

Edited by rm2551

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Well you have to ask yourself, why are you suspicious?

I can't help to make a little bit of a joke out of this sorry, but it's not funny at all when you are a bit suspicious when you can't communicate well

with people and you obviously can't ask Jimmy directly about it at all. So that?

Otherwise what would you think would be the reason? When a bootleg sounds particulary good you certainly wonder, but it helps nothing with sales or anything to keep it secret and he would probably release it when music was selling a lot more and helps nothing with the myth or whatever it was for Jimmy either!

And it's nothing wrong with Zep's music being largely about excitement, but the whole excitement about official live albums was when there was really no completely good official live album at all, but yeah it would be great to hear some more amazing shows in official quality.

But the wait and anticipation and sales would only be bigger if people would know, so I'm afraid that with Japan tapes being seemingly unusable, there is just nothing left, unless you want to listen to Plant cracking in Southampton and Earls court Heartbreaker(a lot of solos are amazing though), although I wouldn't mind if everything left would be released at least through internet.

Hey maybe THAT'S THE IDEA!  Release everything that was ever officially recorded and not released yet, trough internet. It's not as expensive as CD releases and it will sell enough!! And yeah, yeah, perhaps avoid Knebworth 11th. It might not go down that well.  ;)  

Or perhaps if they do a series of shows with Jason in Vegas, will I still see suspicion in your eyes!?

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19 hours ago, blindwillie127 said:

This is a topic for those who are 'suspicious'  (as I am) that there are more multi tracked shows than we know of. I recently stated that I think Trentham Gardens '73 was professionally recorded. And, here's another one: Fort Worth 1975, and here's my reason. Its not that its such a great recording (which it is) but more so, its the way Plant mentions doing a "live album" before No Quarter. Again, its the way he's says it, almost telling the audience this show is being recorded. I have other suspicions as well, but I'm throwing this one out there to begin with. Listen to Plant hint at it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bonzo certainly plays like he knows he's being recorded... I will say that.  This is one of my all-time favorite shows, just due to him.  He is spectacular throughout.  That said, I highly doubt this was multi-tracked....

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18 minutes ago, LedElvis75 said:

Bonzo certainly plays like he knows he's being recorded... I will say that.  This is one of my all-time favorite shows, just due to him.  He is spectacular throughout.  That said, I highly doubt this was multi-tracked....

Yeah, yeah and go figure, he's not really suspicious, it's just an expression, but I don't think Plant is suggestive enough of a live album with what he says, so blindwillie127 is a bit off too .  ;)

Edited by SamoKodela

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Oh and by the way hahahah, how do people play when they know they are not being recorded? It's just as silly as a double post! ;)

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9 hours ago, rm2551 said:

Has Page or anyone else in the band/in the know ever hinted at - or let slip - that there are multi's on someone's shelf somewhere that anyone here knows of? If not, sadly, I can't see how it is possible multitrack Led Zeppelin concerts have remained hidden from all for all these years.

I think that it is not only "possible"  but more than likely. Your looking at this from your point of view, but Page has an entirely different perspective than we can understand. The guy is unusually methodical and secretive in his entire approach to everything Zeppelin. Page literally documented most (if not all) of every single one of their concerts from the soundboard on reels or later cassette's. This wasn't just to listen back to after the show in order to critique the nights performance (they had other things to tend to, I'm sure). Page was documenting everything. Now, I don't think it is at all far fetched to believe that there are a handful of shows that have been under our noses for years that we thought were sdbs are actually ref mixes from multi tracks that have been dropped down to cassettes (loss of fidelity) and then bootlegged for our consumption while never hearing what the original source really sounds like. And, were there ever any "hints" or "slips" that the L.A. '72  shows or Southampton '73 were multi tracked before they came out? I don't think there was. Time will tell, but I personally have no doubt that more shows were multi tracked than we have "evidence" of. 

 

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3 minutes ago, blindwillie127 said:

I think that it is not only "possible"  but more than likely. Your looking at this from your point of view, but Page has an entirely different perspective than we can understand. The guy is unusually methodical and secretive in his entire approach to everything Zeppelin. Page literally documented most (if not all) of every single one of their concerts from the soundboard on reels or later cassette's. This wasn't just to listen back to after the show in order to critique the nights performance (they had other things to tend to, I'm sure). Page was documenting everything. Now, I don't think it is at all far fetched to believe that there are a handful of shows that have been under our noses for years that we thought were sdbs are actually ref mixes from multi tracks that have been dropped down to cassettes (loss of fidelity) and then bootlegged for our consumption while never hearing what the original source really sounds like. And, were there ever any "hints" or "slips" that the L.A. '72  shows or Southampton '73 were multi tracked before they came out? I don't think there was. Time will tell, but I personally have no doubt that more shows were multi tracked than we have "evidence" of. 

 

Yeah, you should always consider that the mystique is actually Page himself! So yeah it's possible, let's hope!!

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Well I will continue to hope. And again, I expect there will be a release for the 50th or not at all. If there is a release, even just Earls Court or the full RAH remastered, I would also expect that release would be a test the ground release and I would expect more would follow.

If your suspicions turn out to be on the mark Blindwillie127, there could be a program of releases like the recent studio ones, representing something from each period - best case scenario. Or a box set compilation of all periods - not so best case, but still epic.

 

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14 hours ago, blindwillie127 said:

And, were there ever any "hints" or "slips" that the L.A. '72  shows or Southampton '73 were multi tracked before they came out? 

 

True, there weren't any hints that LA or Southampton were multi tracked, but once everyone found out that those shows were professionally recorded, it was easy to go back to the photos from those gigs and see the extra recording microphones on the band's gear, clear as day. Royal Albert Hall, LA 72, Southampton, MSG 73, Earls Court, and Knebworth all have those extra mics.

The Fort Worth soundboard sounds about the same as all of the rest of the 1975 soundboards. And the photos and amateur video from Fort Worth proves that there were no extra mics on the drums.  So, no chance of a multi-track. 

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On 15-12-2017 at 3:43 AM, ZepHead315 said:

I saw it being discussed in the Trentham Gardens thread, and I'll bring it up here: I'm wondering if Montreux 1970 was multitracked. The newer soundboard portion released by Eat a Peach and EVSD sounds better than any soundboard that I can think of. Perfect balance and crystal clear sound. I'm not at all an audio expert so I'll let others chime in with their thoughts, but I think it's worth discussing:

 

The fact we have a near pro grade audio fragment doesn't mean it is sourced from a multi track. For live recordings European broadcasting companies used one or two 1/4" reel to reel machines with a separate mixing console and a set of microphones. Most likely  Claude Nobs had a similar set up at the casino. You can achieve professional results this way. Under condition the mix is spot on. Making adjustments afterwards is limited to EQ'ing and balancing the left/right signal. 

1970-Montreux_reel.jpg.c443926fa37107a6299bdcd148388d16.jpg

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11 hours ago, pluribus said:

True, there weren't any hints that LA or Southampton were multi tracked, but once everyone found out that those shows were professionally recorded, it was easy to go back to the photos from those gigs and see the extra recording microphones on the band's gear, clear as day. Royal Albert Hall, LA 72, Southampton, MSG 73, Earls Court, and Knebworth all have those extra mics.

The Fort Worth soundboard sounds about the same as all of the rest of the 1975 soundboards. And the photos and amateur video from Fort Worth proves that there were no extra mics on the drums.  So, no chance of a multi-track. 

Point well taken. 

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On December 16, 2017 at 3:03 AM, pluribus said:

True, there weren't any hints that LA or Southampton were multi tracked, but once everyone found out that those shows were professionally recorded, it was easy to go back to the photos from those gigs and see the extra recording microphones on the band's gear, clear as day. Royal Albert Hall, LA 72, Southampton, MSG 73, Earls Court, and Knebworth all have those extra mics.

The Fort Worth soundboard sounds about the same as all of the rest of the 1975 soundboards. And the photos and amateur video from Fort Worth proves that there were no extra mics on the drums.  So, no chance of a multi-track. 

Is the the double mic on kick drum for live recording unique to Zeppelin or are there others that utilized this technique? And, what is the sonic benefit's of it?

 

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1 hour ago, blindwillie127 said:

Is the the double mic on kick drum for live recording unique to Zeppelin or are there others that utilized this technique? And, what is the sonic benefit's of it?

 

I think one mic is for PA and one is for recording channel. Same with the mounted tom. The floor toms look like they're also covered by an additional mic between them. 

Edited by porgie66

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7 minutes ago, porgie66 said:

I assume one mic is for PA and one is for recording channel. 

Makes sense. I always assumed they fed both kick drum mics to the multi  in order to blend them them together (if needed) during mix down. 

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On 12/16/2017 at 6:15 AM, duckman said:

The fact we have a near pro grade audio fragment doesn't mean it is sourced from a multi track. For live recordings European broadcasting companies used one or two 1/4" reel to reel machines with a separate mixing console and a set of microphones. Most likely  Claude Nobs had a similar set up at the casino. You can achieve professional results this way. Under condition the mix is spot on. Making adjustments afterwards is limited to EQ'ing and balancing the left/right signal. 

1970-Montreux_reel.jpg.c443926fa37107a6299bdcd148388d16.jpg

Thanks for the info! Never knew that before. This makes me wonder if other shows were taped this way. To my ears, Page could release this fragment intact. It sounds that good. If more recordings like this one exist (perhaps the other Montreux shows?) then it's possible we could get more than we bargained for in terms of live releases. Hey, a person can dream can't they? :lol:

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48 minutes ago, ZepHead315 said:

Thanks for the info! Never knew that before. This makes me wonder if other shows were taped this way. To my ears, Page could release this fragment intact. It sounds that good. If more recordings like this one exist (perhaps the other Montreux shows?) then it's possible we could get more than we bargained for in terms of live releases. Hey, a person can dream can't they? :lol:

The late Bill Graham (Winterland and Fillmore East and West) was wan ardent taper (just like 'funky' Claude Nobs). Thanks to him we can  enjoy Zep's 1969 January 11  and  two April (24 and 27) recordings. His 'Wolfgang's Vault' is a true treasure trove. Maybe Claude taped the 71 show and maybe other shows at Winterland or the Fillmores have been recorded as well...yes we can dream

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13 minutes ago, duckman said:

The late Bill Graham (Winterland and Fillmore East and West) was wan ardent taper (just like 'funky' Claude Nobs). Thanks to him we can  enjoy Zep's 1969 January 11  and  two April (24 and 27) recordings. His 'Wolfgang's Vault' is a true treasure trove. Maybe Claude taped the 71 show and maybe other shows at Winterland or the Fillmores have been recorded as well...yes we can dream

How about 10/28 and 10/29/72 in Montreux?  Man, would I love to hear those shows!!

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Who knows what Page has up his sleeve for next year? Now he has confirmed it is something, could be something related to this, you never know!

 

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