Whats up with Keith Richards on LZ?

[SamoKodela]

I think no matter what, rock stars did hurt other people just like everybody whether they did it more or less I don't know, but success certainly enabled them that.

[Doctor Jimmy]

1 hour ago, John M said:

Yes the Stones had some great lyrics, but you are underestimating Plant given the songs you chose for this comparison.  I think Plant wrote some great lyrics in a hard rock context.  

Celebration Day 

Misty Mountain Hop

For Your Life

The Rover

Sick Again

Royal Orleans - a great story song by the way

Hots on for Nowhere

Night Flight

 

  

I'll admit these songs have all very interesting lyrics, but: a) they're the exception, not the rule,  they still don't measure with the finest lyrics of the Stones, imho. But we're getting into dangerously subjective territory here, I'm afraid  

[Crimson Avenger]

None of Zeppelin's peers rated them in the early days, so Keef's in good company there. I think you'd actually be hard pushed to name anyone from back then who was enthusiastic about them in the early days, in the UK, at least.

Later on, their reputation (both positive and negative) was off-putting I guess. Zep really didn't mix with other bands who weren't on the Swansong payroll.

I'd love to know what John Lennon thought of them. Did he ever proffer a public opinion?

[76229]

On 30/12/2017 at 10:42 PM, elKZacha said:

Keith Richards is just high up on his little pedestal, so he doesn’t really have much of a worldly view touring with that corpse of a band.

I'm glad someone else is prepared to say this. I saw footage of the Stones on their South American tour and my God they sound bad nowadays. Like a bad Stones tribute band.

[blindwillie127]

3 hours ago, Crimson Avenger said:

None of Zeppelin's peers rated them in the early days, so Keef's in good company there. I think you'd actually be hard pushed to name anyone from back then who was enthusiastic about them in the early days, in the UK, at least.

Later on, their reputation (both positive and negative) was off-putting I guess. Zep really didn't mix with other bands who weren't on the Swansong payroll.

I'd love to know what John Lennon thought of them. Did he ever proffer a public opinion?

Hit Parader 1970:

Q: “Do you think in terms of feelings? Do you think of music, popular music, in terms of emotional reaction as opposed to saying something…”
JOHN: “I think in any of those terms. You know, I just think it’s either something I like or don’t like or it’s heavy or it’s light. I like heavy music, I call it rock. I like Zeppelin, I’ve only heard a couple you know, they’re okay.

"I like Zeppelin" is good enough for me . Seriously though, people need to stop being so butt hurt over Keith Richards not liking Led Zeppelin. Townshend & Clapton both hated them, and I'm willing to bet Jeff Beck wasn't too fond of them either.....so fucking what? 

 

[Crimson Avenger]

3 hours ago, blindwillie127 said:

Hit Parader 1970:

Q: “Do you think in terms of feelings? Do you think of music, popular music, in terms of emotional reaction as opposed to saying something…”
JOHN: “I think in any of those terms. You know, I just think it’s either something I like or don’t like or it’s heavy or it’s light. I like heavy music, I call it rock. I like Zeppelin, I’ve only heard a couple you know, they’re okay.

"I like Zeppelin" is good enough for me . Seriously though, people need to stop being so butt hurt over Keith Richards not liking Led Zeppelin. Townshend & Clapton both hated them, and I'm willing to bet Jeff Beck wasn't too fond of them either.....so fucking what? 

 

Cheers! I had a feeling he might be more of a fan.

[Doctor Jimmy]

4 hours ago, blindwillie127 said:

Seriously though, people need to stop being so butt hurt over Keith Richards not liking Led Zeppelin. Townshend & Clapton both hated them, and I'm willing to bet Jeff Beck wasn't too fond of them either.....so fucking what?

Amen to that! I'll take brutal honesty over these half-assed, ass-kissing "Oh I love [insert classic band name], they're the best!" remarks that celebrities often say

[JohnOsbourne]

Isn't Blackmore from a southern part of England?  He's a big admirer of Zep.

[JohnOsbourne]

On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 10:20 AM, seaweed gate said:

Yep. This fact is also reported in the pages of Barney Hoskyns book. This is Keith Richards who is responsible for having turned Jimmy into an heroin addict. Pure felony. Richards the bastard.

I'm not a Stones fan at all and Richard's comments here are ridiculous, but Page is a grown man, he has no one but himself to blame for what happened with his addiction.

[IpMan]

1 hour ago, JohnOsbourne said:

I'm not a Stones fan at all and Richard's comments here are ridiculous, but Page is a grown man, he has no one but himself to blame for what happened with his addiction.

Could not agree more, if it wasn't Richards it would have been Iggy Pop, Clapton, or Reed...all musicians Page was known to hang out with. We are all responsible for our own actions...nobody's fault but mine baby!!!!

The other problem was Jimmy was such an admirer of Crowley, who himself was a morphine addict.

Be wary of who you admire as most have clay feet.

[Crimson Avenger]

8 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said:

Isn't Blackmore from a southern part of England?  He's a big admirer of Zep.

Interesting that Blackmore started out as a session man; maybe it gave him a similar appreciation/understanding to Page.

Many of Zep's early critics such as the Stones, Cream, the Who, were from that tightly drawn area of London/Surrey. Quite cliquey. They spent all their time playing with each other in pubs and clubs in that area. Inasmuch as they thought of Page at all by 68/69, he would have been a former session man who dropped out and then took a wage as the bass player in the Yardbirds, not a rated band at all by all the grandees. They wouldn't have heard Page play much if at all, and the other three members would have been wholly unknown to them. So they viewed Zep a bit like we might view One Direction now.

It was a widely-shared view at the start, not just in the music business, see Germaine Greer's article here from a while back:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/rockandjazzmusic/3669830/Germaine-Greer-The-night-Led-Zeppelin-blew-my-mind.html

She soon changed her mind!

 

 

[Crimson Avenger]

6 hours ago, IpMan said:

Could not agree more, if it wasn't Richards it would have been Iggy Pop, Clapton, or Reed...all musicians Page was known to hang out with. We are all responsible for our own actions...nobody's fault but mine baby!!!!

The other problem was Jimmy was such an admirer of Crowley, who himself was a morphine addict.

Be wary of who you admire as most have clay feet.

Not Clapton I think, he and Page fell out pretty badly in the late 60s. As an aside, I'd love to hear them collaborate again. I'm Your Witchdoctor was a pretty special track.

You hit the nail on the head re Crowley IMO. Page went pretty far down that path in the 70s... shame he's unlikely to ever talk about any of it.

 

[anniemouse]

The Germaine Greer article is rather wonderful and sums up the band beautifully. I wonder if she had been tipped of by John Peel who I believe she had connections with back in the day.

Wonder who the other band is in reference to the tone deaf lead singer.

 

[Crimson Avenger]

29 minutes ago, anniemouse said:

The Germaine Greer article is rather wonderful and sums up the band beautifully. I wonder if she had been tipped of by John Peel who I believe she had connections with back in the day.

Wonder who the other band is in reference to the tone deaf lead singer.

 

Take your pick! Keith Relf perhaps...

Greer always writes well, and usually comes up with a viewpoint you weren't expecting. You might assume she wouldn't be a fan, but nothing so predictable. I quoted her to show that Richards' views were the norm back then, not an aberration.

 

[Mook]

2 hours ago, Crimson Avenger said:

Interesting that Blackmore started out as a session man; maybe it gave him a similar appreciation/understanding to Page.

Many of Zep's early critics such as the Stones, Cream, the Who, were from that tightly drawn area of London/Surrey. Quite cliquey. They spent all their time playing with each other in pubs and clubs in that area. Inasmuch as they thought of Page at all by 68/69, he would have been a former session man who dropped out and then took a wage as the bass player in the Yardbirds, not a rated band at all by all the grandees. They wouldn't have heard Page play much if at all, and the other three members would have been wholly unknown to them. So they viewed Zep a bit like we might view One Direction now.

It was a widely-shared view at the start, not just in the music business, see Germaine Greer's article here from a while back:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/rockandjazzmusic/3669830/Germaine-Greer-The-night-Led-Zeppelin-blew-my-mind.html

She soon changed her mind!

 

 

I'm not sure all that is entirely correct, John Paul Jones was pretty well know around London by the time Led Zeppelin kicked off & I think The Yardbirds were rated quite highly by a lot of musicians in the 60s.

I think a lot of the jealousy came from the deal Zeppelin got with Atlantic rather than any genuine disrespect for their playing abilities.

[chillumpuffer]

3 hours ago, Crimson Avenger said:

Interesting that Blackmore started out as a session man; maybe it gave him a similar appreciation/understanding to Page.

Many of Zep's early critics such as the Stones, Cream, the Who, were from that tightly drawn area of London/Surrey. Quite cliquey. They spent all their time playing with each other in pubs and clubs in that area. Inasmuch as they thought of Page at all by 68/69, he would have been a former session man who dropped out and then took a wage as the bass player in the Yardbirds, not a rated band at all by all the grandees. They wouldn't have heard Page play much if at all, and the other three members would have been wholly unknown to them. So they viewed Zep a bit like we might view One Direction now.

It was a widely-shared view at the start, not just in the music business, see Germaine Greer's article here from a while back:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/rockandjazzmusic/3669830/Germaine-Greer-The-night-Led-Zeppelin-blew-my-mind.html

She soon changed her mind!

 

 

I heard in an interview with Blackmore, it was when he went to see Zeppelin, THAT was the direction he wanted Purple to go. You can hear the change really from the late 60's instrumental early stuff to the early 70's hard rock songs which came out on "In Rock" and "Machine Head" in particular.

[Crimson Avenger]

1 hour ago, Mook said:

John Paul Jones was pretty well know around London

As a pretty unhip session man perhaps!

Point is, trendy London, then as now, was a bubble. Zep were never in that bubble.

 

1 hour ago, Mook said:

I think The Yardbirds were rated quite highly by a lot of musicians in the 60s.

I suspect much of whatever kudos they had was down to their guitarists. I hesitate to cite Pete Townsend, but he's definitely on record as being rude about their abilities, guitarists aside!

[Mook]

13 minutes ago, Crimson Avenger said:

As a pretty unhip session man perhaps!

An unhip session man who had been doing string arrangements for The Stones & playing bass on Beck's Bolero?

I think Page & Jones were pretty much part of the swinging London scene, clearly Plant & Bonham were not.

[blindwillie127]

1 hour ago, Mook said:

An unhip session man who had been doing string arrangements for The Stones & playing bass on Beck's Bolero?

I think Page & Jones were pretty much part of the swinging London scene, clearly Plant & Bonham were not.

Whether or not JPJ was part of the "swinging" London scene is debatable, but there is no debating that JPJ was well known by those in that scene for being really fucking good. There's this audio clip where George Harrison first hears about "Jimmy Page's new album" and someone in the room refers to JPJ as the "the guv'nor bass player, really good"

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by blindwillie127

[Crimson Avenger]

1 hour ago, Mook said:

An unhip session man who had been doing string arrangements for The Stones & playing bass on Beck's Bolero?

I think Page & Jones were pretty much part of the swinging London scene, clearly Plant & Bonham were not.

 

7 minutes ago, blindwillie127 said:

there is no debating that JPJ was well known by those in that scene for being really fucking good

 

No debating at all, the man's a genius. But - I think - JPJ hadn't ever really been in a band at that point in 68. Leaving aside how hip his string arrangements might or might not have been, Keef etc would have wondered what was going on. It would have been more like, oh, Atlantic have bought a top session man to play bass.

The Yardbirds did most of their touring in the US in 66-68, and Little Games was never released in the UK, so it would have been harder for swinging London to hear what Page was starting to get up to with them. No Youtube back then. Hence all the rock establishment saw was a cynical ploy to make some cash. The USA had heard all that, which may account for the better reception from the beginning. One of the striking things about the Mick Wall book is the revelation that Grant had trouble getting Zep gigs in the UK in the early days.

I'm not agreeing with Richards et al... for the record I think he and the Stones are wildly overrated in pretty much every department. I'm just trying to see where those opinions, which look daft to us looking back now, come from.

 

[Mook]

The Keith Richards quote isn't from the late 60s though is it, is it not a 70s quote which he made after Led Zeppelin were established as one of the biggest bands in the World?

I can see what you're saying though, fair enough.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Mook

[the chase]

On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 4:36 PM, BledZabbath said:

Here is the link:

https://www.spin.com/2015/09/keith-richards-metallica-black-sabbath-rap-insults-jokes-bad-new-york-daily-news-interview/

On the Led Zeppelin 4 cd Box set, there is a quote about each studio album from one of the members..

Quote about the 4th album by John Paul Jones.

"Nobody ever compared us to Black Sabbath after this record!"   

The guys in Led Zeppelin could dish out the critiques as good as the next band.. Robert Plant is a master of jabs.

So if you dish it out, you'd better be able to take some.. whether it's from Keith Richards or Pete Townsend or even Eric Clapton.  

Edited January 3, 2018 by the chase

[EaglesOfOneNest]

I think it stems entirely from jealousy. Of course, people's tastes differ, but I think the Stones and the Who are great bands, and they had quite a bit of success before Zep ever came on the scene, so naturally one could see there's a bit of "who're these wankers??"... add to that their financial success thanks to Peter Grant and of course a bunch of 20-something famous guys couldn't stand them

[76229]

1 hour ago, blindwillie127 said:

George Harrison first hears about "Jimmy Page's new album" and someone in the room refers to JPJ as the "the guv'nor bass player, really good"

 

Glyn Johns that is. George doesn't sound that bothered by Zep 1 in that clip does he. More interested in lunch, not surprising given he sounds as stoned as you can be and still be able to distinguish what planet you're on!

[BledZabbath]

3 hours ago, the chase said:

On the Led Zeppelin 4 cd Box set, there is a quote about each studio album from one of the members..

Quote about the 4th album by John Paul Jones.

"Nobody ever compared us to Black Sabbath after this record!"   

The guys in Led Zeppelin could dish out the critiques as good as the next band.. Robert Plant is a master of jabs.

So if you dish it out, you'd better be able to take some.. whether it's from Keith Richards or Pete Townsend or even Eric Clapton.  

What record was that Chase?

Very true if you give it out you have to be able to take it.