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gibsonfan159

Nitpicking Page on 3/21/75

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, the-ocean87 said:

Funny Version :D Except for the slow tempo and the messy begining of The Rover it doesn't too bad IMO. He keeps time quite well.

This was the first Zep bootleg I ever bought. I didn't notice anything unusual back then, but listening now I can definitely hear it. This is still one of my favorite acoustic sets and I think the quality of the recording makes this an essential listen for 77.

Edited by gibsonfan159
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3 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

This was the first Zep bootleg I ever bought. I didn't notice anything unusual back then, but listening now I can definitely hear it. This is still one of my favorite acoustic sets and I think the quality of the recording makes this an essential listen for 77.

If only Millard had gone to 6/22 or 6/26 instead...

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36 minutes ago, Bonzo_fan said:

If only Millard had gone to 6/22 or 6/26 instead...

If only he had gone to 8/21 instead...

just saying

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12 minutes ago, paplbojo said:

If only he had gone to 8/21 instead...

just saying

That recording is great as-is IMO.  And he didn't even go to a '72 show.  I meant if he went to a different fifth '77 show...

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I know what you meant I was just throwing it out there jokingly. 6/22 might be my "holy grail" recording. 

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17 hours ago, paplbojo said:

I know what you meant I was just throwing it out there jokingly. 6/22 might be my "holy grail" recording. 

Haha alright cool, all good.  Yeah, it'd be up there for me.  I think I still have to go with 9/19/70 Evening for my "holy grail"...

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On 3/1/2018 at 8:26 PM, Bonzo_fan said:

Haha alright cool, all good.  Yeah, it'd be up there for me.  I think I still have to go with 9/19/70 Evening for my "holy grail"...

Could this be the quintessential Zeppelin boot? The more I listen to it the more I think so. I love the 71 tour, but the ferocity they play with here is something else.

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3 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Could this be the quintessential Zeppelin boot? The more I listen to it the more I think so. I love the 71 tour, but the ferocity they play with here is something else.

I don't know about quintessential boot, as the sound, though good, is a little hard for a newbie to get into imho. I'd say the quintessential boot would be something like LTTE, Blueberry Hill, or the Copenhagen warm ups. Something that is a good balance of sound quality, performance, setlist, etc.

However, if we're talking strictly performance-wise, I'd definitely nominate it as Zeppelin's single greatest performance. I have yet to hear a single flaw from this show. All of them are on fire.

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4 minutes ago, ZepHead315 said:

I don't know about quintessential boot

Got a little mixed up there. I meant performance, but thought if it was ever released with better quality it would blow everything else away.

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1 minute ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Got a little mixed up there. I meant performance, but thought if it was ever released with better quality it would blow everything else away.

Totally agree with you there. Sometimes I like to imagine an alternate universe where the band multi-tracked and released this show instead of TSRTS. A man can dream right? :)

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On 2/6/2018 at 4:12 PM, gibsonfan159 said:

And I also said the reason was a combination of the sound, the set list, and the overall good performance. I never said Page played flawless. Do you want me to nitpick South Hampton and compare?

Southampton being a good performance is highly debtable. Plants voice is very bit as bad as it was in 75 and worse compared to alot 75 shows and page was pretty sticky at Southampton . Its a very uneven show all around. The stoke bootleg is a far better show  Southampton is a decent show bit it's not great. Seattle 75 is better  I think.  

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On 3/15/2018 at 8:57 AM, gibsonfan159 said:

Could this be the quintessential Zeppelin boot? The more I listen to it the more I think so. I love the 71 tour, but the ferocity they play with here is something else.

A soundboard for any of those August and September 1970 shows would be a holy grail for me. That tour for me represents zep at their heaviest and most muscular. And plants voice is amazing every night on that tour. On the 71 us tour he just stint have the power range or consistency he had in 1970. Zeppelin for me just didn't sound that savage again post 1970. The 1971 tour is a very close second for me.  I would love a soundboard for the 1971 tour opener in Vancouver. I would imagine plant sounded much like he did on August 21 in l a and probably even more powerful. Could be a vocal performance on the level of montreux 71.

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On 2/27/2018 at 12:47 PM, the-ocean87 said:

What always amazed me is that Page and Plant had so much more off-nights compared to Bonzo and JPJ, yet they get/got all the attention.

Is there one concert where Bonzo or JPJ are really off? I'm not the biggest bootleg expert, but from the 30-40 boots that I have, I don't remember one bad night from them.

San Diego 1977 was a very tough night for bonzo h plays way behind the band all night and missed alot of cues and had alot of timing problems. It's not a bad performance  but it's well below the Bonham standard. He had other nights where he was slightly off like June 25 77 but even thst is a very solid drum performance he is just behind the beat slightly . San Diego was probably the most off he ever played.

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On 2/9/2018 at 5:04 AM, Crimson Avenger said:

I had a listen to some of your points. I can sort of see where you are coming from, but with respect - and I mean that, I don't believe you are trolling - I think you are misunderstanding the whole point of Jimmy's guitar style and his approach to live playing by 1975. His phrasings and timings have always been unorthodox, and what you are seeing as hesitation and lack of coordination are simply his self-tutored way of playing. It's what makes him so unique. Sure there are a couple of weak bends in there, but what guitarist doesn't, and we could go back to any unedited show pre 75 and find plenty of examples there too. In 1975 he's thinking on his feet more than before and exploring different directions when he stretches out, whereas pre-75 he's got a lot of it more worked out in advance, even the 'improvised' things. Some things work better than others, naturally. He's mixing up the tempos, time sigs and modes all the time. A couple of your examples of hesitation/lack of coordination are simply where he's waiting for Bonham, or waiting to slip into the same groove as him.

I once played briefly with a guy who was 'properly' trained. Not classical, but he'd been to college to learn how to play rock/pop 'properly'. Anyway, he swore blind that Page was *literally* a *useless* player because he couldn't keep time. And he had a metronome to prove it. We fell out pretty fast, lol. I'm not saying you are quite arguing that, but I think it's a similar viewpoint which places technical precision over innovation or expression. Page's playing isn't about the technically perfect reproduction of a musical ideal - not in 75 or earlier - but about getting what's in his head out onto the fretboard. You make a point about him relying on the same old phrases, but again that's even truer pre 75, and Page's collection of stock phrases - which he is constantly working on and developing in 75 - is surely a degree of magnitude larger than pretty much anyone else.

It just shows that we can listen to the same thing and take different things from it. All good.

 

And pages very clean thin and dry tone on the 75 tapes does not help either. If his tone had thick and more driven like it was in 70 and 71 there a imperfections would not stand out as much. I think if you heard many of the best guitar players using a tone that left them that naked you would hear similiar imperfections.  We all except that page was sloppy at times but you can find plenty of examples of that in 70 to 73 as well. It's annoying that poeple constantly still insist on pointing out pages imperfections. It drives me nuts when poeple say page is a sloppy player like they are informing you of something you don't realize. Sloppy or not page is the best phrasing issues and all.

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