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Cosmic_Equilibrium

Underrated/overrated shows

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3 hours ago, the-ocean87 said:

Overrated: 1980 tour

I never understood why it gets some praise. Well, some performances are ok. However, from a guitar players POV the whole tour is just an awful display of professionalism, even by a R'n'R Band's standard.

Could not disagree more as there are plenty of good shows on that tour. In fact I would put 50% of those shows in the very good range where I would only place 1/3 of the 77' shows in the very good range but, as Paul said, to each their own.

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3 hours ago, IpMan said:

Could not disagree more as there are plenty of good shows on that tour. In fact I would put 50% of those shows in the very good range where I would only place 1/3 of the 77' shows in the very good range but, as Paul said, to each their own.

Well, his solos on the 1980 tour suck. His fingers are so sticky, it hurts me listening as a guitar player myself.

His rhythm work is ok, though.

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Posted (edited)

I think the OP's list is great and covers a lot of the bases (and yes. 6-22-77 was the first show that popped into my head when I read the thread title). And subsequent posts I mostly agree with too.


For overrated, I'd add Vancouver 3-21-70. Tried and tried but cannot get into it, and esp. compared to other 1970s shows - Royal Albert Hall, Montreux, LA Forum, Madison Square Garden, and of course Bath - it just pales.

For 1980, to each their own, but I don't think anyone can call it overrated, because it's so frequently trashed - you can say it sucks, but you can't call something overrated if it already has a bad reputation.

 

For underrated, I'd throw in Tokyo 9-23-71. It's a well-regarded show, but still criminally overlooked in general because of the legendary 929 show. 929 has a slight edge because the setlist is so very unusual and interesting - but 9-23 is fully its equal performance-wise IMHO.

Oh - and I'll also include the Paris 10-10-69 show in the underrated category. No, it's not April '69 on the US West Coast, but still, I've always loved this show ever since I first heard it many years ago - and since it got released officially as the Zep I companion disc, its reputation seems to have gone from "okay" to "bad," for reasons that IMHO have absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the performance. I think it's great, and also pretty interesting - hilarious stage banter, a fantastic You Shook Me, the only Good Times Bad Times/Communication Breakdown opener that exists in decent sound quality, and the first known live performance of Moby Dick (not to mention the only known live performance of the track before Zep II's release date).

Edited by tmtomh

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6 hours ago, the-ocean87 said:

Well, his solos on the 1980 tour suck. His fingers are so sticky, it hurts me listening as a guitar player myself.

His rhythm work is ok, though.

Have you heard some of the boots from Rotterdam or Frankfurt? No sticky fingers there. The Rotterdam Heartbreaker is one of Page's best versions as just one example. Of course if you don't like it to each their own, I respect your opinion.

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39 minutes ago, IpMan said:

Have you heard some of the boots from Rotterdam or Frankfurt? No sticky fingers there. The Rotterdam Heartbreaker is one of Page's best versions as just one example. Of course if you don't like it to each their own, I respect your opinion.

1980 requires sifting through pretty average and at times just plain bad songs - which is not necessarily limited to Jimmy having sticky fingers as you all say, or Jimmy/Bonzo just being too smashed, but also Bonham is a lot of the time very subdued, hardly contributing anything but the basics, and the tone of the SB's (and I think the AUD tapes are not much better) being the worst of any Zep tour to my ears. So tinny/dry - no bottom end or space at all for the most part. There are a few exceptions, Frankfurt and Zurich for example are better (but still....), but all in all it's not near '73, '75 (especially) or even '77 which was hit and miss as well for how the SB's present.

BUT - if you dig, and give the better gigs a good run through, there are gems that are equal to their best from any year. It is well worth running through 1980 to dig out those gems, put them aside in a compilation, and you just may get a better appreciation for 1980.

And I agree, 1980 can't be overrated because it gets hammered. I don't think it is underrated either as it deserves a lot of the flak. But it is still worth the effort.

RAH is underrated. It is the best thing Led Zeppelin have recorded/filmed by a country mile. Perfectly illustrating what made early Zep such a powerhouse live band. HMMT is the greatest thing I have ever seen. We need a FULL stand alone RAH release. a RAH DVD SDBS release please Jimmy. I'd buy that no matter the price. Whatever "extra's" are included, don't care. Will love it.

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Not to toot my own horn here too much, but if anyone's interested, I did a best of 1980 tour compilation:

In general, after putting this together, my thoughts are somewhere between rm2551's and IpMan's. In terms of full shows, I think only Frankfurt and Zurich are must hears from this tour. Everything else ranges from just decent to flat out embarrassing. But there are plenty of highlights sprinkled from throughout this run. Had Jimmy and Bonzo gotten into rehab, I think the American tour that year could have kicked serious ass! Plant was singing songs like Rock and Roll in their original melody again. But I do agree that Bonzo's lack of energy drags these shows down, even more than Page's sticky fingers. Plus, I think the setlist for that tour was horrible. The Rain Song followed by Hot Dog, followed by All My Love? Terrible pacing. Ultimately, like all latter day Zeppelin tours, it's a mixed bag with plenty of highlights imho.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/19/2018 at 3:31 AM, IpMan said:

Have you heard some of the boots from Rotterdam or Frankfurt? No sticky fingers there. The Rotterdam Heartbreaker is one of Page's best versions as just one example. Of course if you don't like it to each their own, I respect your opinion.

Maybe I should give it another listen. I listened to both shows a few years ago and remember that I wasn't impressed with Jimmy.

I repect other opinions, of course.

My problem with the 1980 shows beside Page's heroin demons is the sound(s). For example, I don't like Jones' keyboard and bass sound (especially his sound on stariway sucks and doesn't fit the song). Also the drums sound somewhat dry. The whole feeling of these shows is a bit negative IMO.

Edit: I just finished listening to Stairway from the Frankfurt show. I usually use Stairway to judge Jimmy's playing on a given night. Here he sounds REALLY awful. It hurts to listen to this crap, especially when you know all the good versions of that song 😕

Edited by the-ocean87

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