Jump to content
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
gibsonfan159

Nitpicking Page 2/6/75 Montreal (The 1975 World Tour Bootleg)

Recommended Posts

Considering I was so critical of Page's playing on 3/21, I only consider it fair to analyze his playing on a 75 show that I've previously thought was great, Montreal 2/6/75, just to see if I was correct in saying he did have some performances where he played like his old self or if he was truly subpar altogether in 75. Of course this is a B-grade audience recording, so it's a little hard to judge the sound accurately, but I think I can still hear a bum note nevertheless. 

WARNING: Over-sensitive folks who can't handle honest criticism of a rock band- stop right here and exit stage left. Again, this isn't me taking a crap on Page. I thought it would be fun to point out both the highlights and lowlights of an entire show. Listen along and take note of the examples I give and maybe give your own examples or input. Those who want a link to the version I have, send a PM. The Youtube version doesn't match up to mine.

Rock And Roll- Very reminiscent of the version from TSRTS soundtrack. No problem with the solo at all as he flies right through it.

Sick Again- A tight start. The first solo- A fluid stringent of  pull-offs with no strained notes, rare for this song. Second solo- Nimble fingers here as he slides right through with no flubs. So far so good.

OTHAFA- Absolutely perfect intro, again a rarity for this song. The solo- Page either breaks a string at the beginning or realizes he needs to swap guitars for some reason, but the first part is absent. Then he comes in at 3:02. He does his usual first run on the lower register, then moves up an octave at 3:12. 3:45-4:06 is some good phrasing. 4:14-4:23 is the type of speed and articulation that Page had in 73 that he seemed to lose as the 75 tour went on. Makes me realize that his injured finger didn't really hamper his playing, but rather the medications he took for pain. 4:40-5:05 is another good variation of phrasing. You'll notice he's not straining to do high speed triplet pulloffs and repetitive bends like he does later on for this song. It's as if his finger may be hurting, but his mind is still where it needs to be. A slight flub at 6:42.

IMTOD- Great start, Plant is warmed up and sounding good. 3:27, Page drops his pick or something, but jumps back in. Solo 1- Not a great one, it's a little lackluster and doesn't flow well. Solo 2- A little more pep this time, but still not great. 7:22-7:32, he's hitting a little off key with the slide, but not too bad. 7:52, another bum note with the slide. Maybe he's out of tune? 8:48, yep, his guitar is out of tune as is apparent when he strums the open chord. 9:43, he notices the guitar is out of tune and stops the chord short to keep it from ringing out. All in all, one of the worst IMTOD's I've heard. Maybe not his fault though.

TSRTS- The twelve string is coming through very twangy, so it's hard to judge from the start. 1:40 and on, they seem to be dragging a little, like they don't wanna be playing this. Solo 1- They pick up some and Page gets a good solid solo down. 3:13, damn Rob, what happened? Voice took a dive. 3:56, the tapers panning actually accents this a little lol. Solo 2-  Page is playing fine, but it still sounds very uninspired. Plant sounding like shit at the end.

The Rain Song- Plant's voice evens out a little. That damn out of tune mellotron. Page is flowing along nicely, but this is one of those numbers he rarely missed a note on. 4:45, Jones' foot hits the wrong note lol. 5:45, I've never really noticed how "Hendrix" his playing is on this part. Those chorded hammer-ons sound very Little Wing-ish.

Kashmir- This is one version where the guitar mix outweighs the keys- perfect for nitpicking Pagey. It sounds a little thin, but still creates the mood nicely. 3:35, those arabic guitar bits sound amazing and should have been on the studio version. 7:15 and on, he's playing those ascending riffs perfectly but the leads are very erratic. 8:08, whatever that was, was fantastic. Not bad at all.

No Quarter- Nitpicking Jones, he's creating a very nice mood with the keys. Jones is killing it with this groove. 7:12, the crowd joins in with perfect timing. Page comes in with elegance. 8:54-9:15 reminds me of Gilmour's solo on "Another Brick In The Wall" for some reason. Page's soloing is solid here, but certainly not 73 level. Outro solo- Page comes alive and shows some vigor. The phrasing and articulation is ok, but not above par for 75. 

Trampled Underfoot- Normal start. The solo- This was the new song that was really supposed to be a showcase for Page during the solo, but for most versions I've heard it sounds like he's just trying to cram as much improvised material as he can into the solo section. Here, he plays a good solo, but it sounds just exactly like that. There's no structure or buildup, just note cramming.

Moby Dick- Yep, sounds like Moby Dick.

Dazed And Confused- A very inspired start and the band sounds fresh. Reminds me a little of the Europe 73 versions. First solo section- Not bad, articulation is a little off but not much. San Francisco- Sounds pretty good with Page being very rhythmic with the wah pedal. Plant's voice is good again. Bow section-  8:15, I swear someone says "God hates fiddle." Some people might dismiss Page's bow playing as gimmick, but listening closely will reveal that he truly used this technique in a very artistsic manner, and this version is very haunting and ethereal. Bonham comes in and completes the otherworldy experience. 13:33- the second half, let's see where this goes. It's obvious this audience recording doesn't match up to something like TSRTS soundtrack, so I've gotta listen with that in mind. 16:14, No missed or strained notes so far, but nothing mind blowing either. 8:20, some decent fluidity. 19:22-19:32, again nice fluididty. 19:53, Mars-Bringer Of War section- disaster. I don't think Page was ready. He jumps back on track afterwards, but not sounding great. 21:16, Page jumps into the ending bar, but Jones and Bonzo don't follow til the next bar. 

Stairway To Heaven- Perfection through the beginning. All members are sounding great. The solo- Page starts off great, good flow and articulation. 8:13, there's some kind of accidental off notes that come through. 8:36-9:20, man, he's ripping this solo apart. One of the best I've heard. Phrasing and fluidity are there with no strained or forced notes. Absolutely beautiful. Plant's voice is rough again at the climax, but he pushes through.

Whole Lotta Love (Partial)- Very rushed intro, as was common through 75. 

Black Dog- They're sounding lively for the end of the show. 1:00, a nimble fill that doesn't quite end right. Solo- 3:50-3:56, a little bit of turkey gobbling, but not bad. Those big bends aren't great, but not bad either. 4:28, he jumps into the Heartbreaker part. He keeps a steady flow through to the end. 5:26, some excellent articulation and speed to end it. Not a bad Black Dog solo at all for 75 (God knows he had some bummers).

Heartbreaker- The solo- Starts off strong, although twangy. 2:37, sticky fingers on the ascending pull-offs. Afterwards it's the usual series of motifs he uses for this solo, but a little uninspired sounding. 5:08, finally comes alive with a flurry of notes. I'd say the show ends very mediocrely.

My final assessment of Page for this show? I had previously thought this was the best Page of 75. I'm not so sure now after listening in detail. He definitely gets on a high level on certain parts, mainly the beginning, but drops back down in areas as well. He doesn't strain on Sick Again. OTHAFA has good articulation and phrasing. The Stairway solo is great. Does he have the overall musicality and ability of pre-75? I couldn't say he did, but he did great with an injured finger. And a fifth of Jack. I'd certainly rate his playing way above 3/21.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wrote off the late January-early February shows for a long time because I figured they were all rough performances due to the circumstances. I still have yet to listen to this show. I was going to listen to it in the near future, but your review seems to be a bit cooler on it compared to what you were saying earlier. Curious about whether you'd still recommend this one or not, especially for someone like me who's kind of "meh" on '75 as a whole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

WARNING: Over-sensitive folks who can't handle honest criticism of a rock band- stop right here and exit stage left. Again, this isn't me taking a crap on Page.

To each his own. I don't personally think you're taking a "crap" on Page. I think you're doing what countless aspiring guitarists have done since the dawn of rock: Compare their idol to themselves, observe the gaps in proficiency here and there, and so look for weaknesses to try and bring their idol back down to earth. It's great that you're listening to the shows. I think we all need to take a second look at every gig out there, as there are lots of great moments to discover.  But this type of note-by-note thing seems a lot like counting the "ums" and the "uhs" in a famous speech.  It misses the forest for the trees. Yeah, Page had an "affected" year in 1975.  Everyone has known that for the past 40 years.  Partly from injury, partly from drugs, and probably a good bit to do with a deliberate shift towards showmanship vs technical precision. Page was already an undisputed success, he was already a respected guitarist, he had already proved his ability to pull off a good solo a thousand times over, and he was obviously now focused on making the shows more about the over-the-top type of presentation that was becoming more popular at the time (see: KISS, Alice Cooper).  Jeans and t-shirts and standing still for each solo gave way to fancy suits, laser beams, and duck walks. For all anyone knows, maybe Page was even a little bored with the guitar by that point. Find me a player who reached that height of success, sustained it for that long, and didn't have rough periods or tours where they just tuned out. The better shows of the 75 tour have long been known, and even those shows have plenty of "missed notes", just as some of the "worst" shows still have flashes of brilliance.

Since you're on a 75 kick, I think 2/6/75 is a good show, but I think it lacks a bit of that extra "oomph" of other shows. Not too many special moments to it. 2/7/75 in NYC is much better, but Plant is in much weaker voice. 2/8/75 in Philadelphia is the best of the lot, and is one of the best nights of the tour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good stuff. The received opinion that Jimmy play badly in early 75 is (I think) based on a combination of Steven Davis' inanities and early Luis Rey reviews when listenable recordings were even rarer than they are now. It's 100% wrong. Sure Jimmy hurt his finger, but it didn't cause him to play badly, it caused him to play less. Those early 75 shows are shorter and tighter than March, and that's arguably no bad thing. His playing in Jan 75 especially reminds me of him in 1969, although I'm not sure how far I'd defend that view. A SBD from Chicago, or early Feb of course as Pluribus says, would be most welcome, because I'm sure it would revise the general opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, ZepHead315 said:

I wrote off the late January-early February shows for a long time because I figured they were all rough performances due to the circumstances. I still have yet to listen to this show. I was going to listen to it in the near future, but your review seems to be a bit cooler on it compared to what you were saying earlier. Curious about whether you'd still recommend this one or not, especially for someone like me who's kind of "meh" on '75 as a whole.

It's not fantastic, but I think I was mostly impressed by how solid Page is (no real cringe worthy solos). I'd at least recommend listening to Sick Again, OTHAFA, and the Stairway solo, which is much better than I realized.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Black Dog in 75 is an encore, and I suspect most of the problem with the dodgy ones is that he's dancing about and gurning at the audience (that's a significant part of his problems in 1977 too, but that's another story). There are certainly some encores where he's not at his most committed; hell, he even forgets to play BD altogether on 75.03.20. The lead work on the studio version of that song goes into some very weird tonal territory (by accident or design I'm not sure), and the live versions replicate this, sometimes more so. And he does persist in moving to playing the riff in the upper register, which doesn't work with just one guitar IMO. But there are plenty of overall great BD's from 1975 too, such as Montreal!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Crimson Avenger said:

Black Dog in 75 is an encore, and I suspect most of the problem with the dodgy ones is that he's dancing about and gurning at the audience (that's a significant part of his problems in 1977 too, but that's another story). There are certainly some encores where he's not at his most committed; hell, he even forgets to play BD altogether on 75.03.20. The lead work on the studio version of that song goes into some very weird tonal territory (by accident or design I'm not sure), and the live versions replicate this, sometimes more so. And he does persist in moving to playing the riff in the upper register, which doesn't work with just one guitar IMO. But there are plenty of overall great BD's from 1975 too, such as Montreal!

Yes, this makes a whole lotta sense. Kinda like his walking pull-offs in live Heartbreaker that he frequently flubbed yet the rest of the solo, pre & post, are typically great. The reason being he did this with the damn guitar over his head and he obviously was putting too much weight on the left arm, causing his palm to catch on the neck. If he did this maneuver in a normal position it would have been the easiest part of the solo, instead he showboated and made it nearly impossible with a heavy as hell Les Paul.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there general consensus on which night in 1975 (Earl's Court included) one can find Jimmy Page at his most fluid?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most fluid for 1975 is Philadelphia 2/8/75, Uniondale 2/14/75, Long Beach 3/12/75, and Seattle 3/21/75. Honorable mention to 2/12/75 and 2/13/75. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, pluribus said:

Most fluid for 1975 is Philadelphia 2/8/75, Uniondale 2/14/75, Long Beach 3/12/75, and Seattle 3/21/75. Honorable mention to 2/12/75 and 2/13/75. 

Thank you, very much appreciated. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would argue May 18th & May 23rd are also extremely fluid. Better than 3/21 IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These "nitpicking Page" episodes make for some very enjoyable reading. I hope there's more (if you have the time and inclination). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, IpMan said:

I would argue May 18th & May 23rd are also extremely fluid. Better than 3/21 IMO.

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, pluribus said:

Most fluid for 1975 is Philadelphia 2/8/75, Uniondale 2/14/75, Long Beach 3/12/75, and Seattle 3/21/75. Honorable mention to 2/12/75 and 2/13/75. 

I'll do some of those next, and move back to 73 maybe. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I'll do some of those next, and move back to 73 maybe. 

I'd include the two Vancouver shows from '75 (the '73 Vancouver show is great too, despite Plant's problems at the end of the show).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, JohnOsbourne said:

I'd include the two Vancouver shows from '75 (the '73 Vancouver show is great too, despite Plant's problems at the end of the show).

Seems like Page wasn't great on those shows, but I'll give them another listen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Seems like Page wasn't great on those shows, but I'll give them another listen.

It's subjective, of course, but the general consensus is that the Vancouver shows (and Page in particular) are among the best of the '75 NA tour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

A Lot of people seem to discount Feb13th 75 I think because of the 12th but in my opinion, No Quarter and Dazed are as fine a version as any. Jones use of the Bass pedals during No Quarter is incredible and Jimmy is pretty speedy if not totally clean. His bow solo is very creepy and has a very nice ending where he really scrapes the strings with the bow to make it growl and howl at the end and the end of Dazed is simply EPIC.  Jimmy extends it beyond all reason and blows it out of the water. At the very end he comes up with a bit that I have heard (I think on Bonzo's birthday) but it's way better here so cool, I wish I knew what it was or if it's something he came up with all on his own, but yeah the 13th has some really great playing and should not be overlooked if you like NQ and Dazed.

 

Ps.  I love the Montreal show it was one of the first vinyl boots I ever bought.

Edited by hummingbird69

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, hummingbird69 said:

A Lot of people seem to discount Feb13th 75 I think because of the 12th but in my opinion, No Quarter and Dazed are as fine a version as any. Jones use of the Bass pedals during No Quarter is incredible and Jimmy is pretty speedy if not totally clean. His bow solo is very creepy and has a very nice ending where he really scrapes the strings with the bow to make it growl and howl at the end and the end of Dazed is simply EPIC.  Jimmy extends it beyond all reason and blows it out of the water. At the very end he comes up with a bit that I have heard (I think on Bonzo's birthday) but it's way better here so cool, I wish I knew what it was or if it's something he came up with all on his own, but yeah the 13th has some really great playing and should not be overlooked if you like NQ and Dazed.

 

Ps.  I love the Montreal show it was one of the first vinyl boots I ever bought.

The 13th gets overlooked because it's between the famously bootlegged show on the 12th and the highly regarded show on the 14th, but I think it's better than both, probably the best show from the first leg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/26/2018 at 5:09 AM, TheStairwayRemainsTheSame said:

The timing of them in Black Dog is really off I've always noticed that.

Might be my favourite Page tone on a boot  this show.

Page had killer tone on that bootleg.  Very  thick and dark. Not the usual thin twang you here on the board tapes. I have always heard a change on pages 75 tone beginning with  the  February 12 new York show.  I find his tone on the landover 75 board tape quite a bit fuller than on the other board tapes from 75. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/7/2018 at 11:34 PM, JohnOsbourne said:

The 13th gets overlooked because it's between the famously bootlegged show on the 12th and the highly regarded show on the 14th, but I think it's better than both, probably the best show from the first leg.

I agree page played so much better on the 13th than he did for the other 2 shows. Although I found plant gave a much better vocal performance on the 14th  then he did   for the other 2 shows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/7/2018 at 11:25 PM, hummingbird69 said:

A Lot of people seem to discount Feb13th 75 I think because of the 12th but in my opinion, No Quarter and Dazed are as fine a version as any. Jones use of the Bass pedals during No Quarter is incredible and Jimmy is pretty speedy if not totally clean. His bow solo is very creepy and has a very nice ending where he really scrapes the strings with the bow to make it growl and howl at the end and the end of Dazed is simply EPIC.  Jimmy extends it beyond all reason and blows it out of the water. At the very end he comes up with a bit that I have heard (I think on Bonzo's birthday) but it's way better here so cool, I wish I knew what it was or if it's something he came up with all on his own, but yeah the 13th has some really great playing and should not be overlooked if you like NQ and Dazed.

 

Ps.  I love the Montreal show it was one of the first vinyl boots I ever bought.

Dazed from February 13th was one of the best  of 1975 . Page was incredible on that version.  Over the hills has a killer solo as well. One of my favorite 75 shows. I think it's the best from the first leg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/7/2018 at 5:57 PM, gibsonfan159 said:

Seems like Page wasn't great on those shows, but I'll give them another listen.

Page plays quite well on the second Vancouver gig. Much more nimble and fluid then the first night .  I think he plays better on the 20th then he did on the 21st on Seattle . Except for heartbreaker which is a stinker in Vancouver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Adam Ryan watson said:

Page plays quite well on the second Vancouver gig. Much more nimble and fluid then the first night .  I think he plays better on the 20th then he did on the 21st on Seattle . Except for heartbreaker which is a stinker in Vancouver.

I think he played better on both Vancouver shows than 3/21 and I've heard worse Heartbreakers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×