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Whigged

John Paul Jones Snubbed Page & Plant?

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Working on an anniversary piece on 'Walking Into Clarksdale' (jouro here_ and came across a really interesting exchange. Dean Goodman talked to Page & Plant in a dual interview and posed the question: "I UNDERSTAND YOU APPROACHED JOHN PAUL JONES THIS TIME, BUT HE TURNED YOU DOWN?" (caps his, not mine) Robert and Jimmy did their typical evasive attempt at humor to deflect the conversation, with the former basically saying nobody would be interested either way,

Regardless, I'm curious, because I've never heard that Jonesy was even in the conversation at the time. It would have been incredibly interesting to see what JPJ brought to the table. Anyone else even remotely aware of this?

 

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Never heard or read any inkling of John Paul Jones being asked to join the "Clarksdale" sessions.

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2 hours ago, Strider said:

Never heard or read any inkling of John Paul Jones being asked to join the "Clarksdale" sessions.

and thank god he was not asked as he was working on his own, BRILLIANT, solo album Zooma at the time. I play Zooma quite often to this day, Clarksdale I pull out when I remember P&P made an album in 98' and I need to remind myself how mediocre it was.

If by chance JPJ was asked he probably took one look at the banal material and said, "hmm, um, ok but, um...sorry mates, I think it's time for me to park the car."

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7 minutes ago, IpMan said:

If by chance JPJ was asked he probably took one look at the banal material and said, "hmm, um, ok but, um...sorry mates, I think it's time for me to park the car."

There is no chance. P/P & JPJ were barely on speaking terms at the time, and JPJ did have his solo project to focus on. Goodman's jest or suggestion that they did is just nonsensical. The primary purpose of WIC was to present the continuing evolution of P/P, not ignite reformation rumors that would have dogged their entire world tour.

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8 hours ago, IpMan said:

and thank god he was not asked as he was working on his own, BRILLIANT, solo album Zooma at the time. I play Zooma quite often to this day, Clarksdale I pull out when I remember P&P made an album in 98' and I need to remind myself how mediocre it was.

If by chance JPJ was asked he probably took one look at the banal material and said, "hmm, um, ok but, um...sorry mates, I think it's time for me to park the car."

:goodpost:

Imo Zooma pees from a great height over Walking into Clarksdale. Pete Thomas' drums are Bonzo-esque too.

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14 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

There is no chance. P/P & JPJ were barely on speaking terms at the time, and JPJ did have his solo project to focus on. Goodman's jest or suggestion that they did is just nonsensical. The primary purpose of WIC was to present the continuing evolution of P/P, not ignite reformation rumors that would have dogged their entire world tour.

This.

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14 hours ago, IpMan said:

and thank god he was not asked as he was working on his own, BRILLIANT, solo album Zooma at the time. I play Zooma quite often to this day, Clarksdale I pull out when I remember P&P made an album in 98' and I need to remind myself how mediocre it was.

If by chance JPJ was asked he probably took one look at the banal material and said, "hmm, um, ok but, um...sorry mates, I think it's time for me to park the car."

And this. Although I rank "Walking Into Clarksdale" slightly above mediocre. 😏

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39 minutes ago, Strider said:

And this. Although I rank "Walking Into Clarksdale" slightly above mediocre. 😏

WIC would've been much better had it not been produced to cater to grunge, which by that time was dying down anyway. It had a good variety of sounds and melodies and could've passed as a modern Zep album, but something about it seemed contrived.

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I’m surprised RP hasn’t reworked “The Window” (bonus track) into his most recent tour set List with SSS. 

R😎

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6 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

WIC would've been much better had it not been produced to cater to grunge, which by that time was dying down anyway. It had a good variety of sounds and melodies and could've passed as a modern Zep album, but something about it seemed contrived.

Agree Gibson, the production did not work with the material however there was some really good stuff on the album. If Jimmy would have produced the damn thing it would have, or could have been a great album, especially if they included The Window and Whiskey from the Glass. Why they left two of the best cuts off the album is a mystery.

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6 minutes ago, IpMan said:

Agree Gibson, the production did not work with the material however there was some really good stuff on the album. If Jimmy would have produced the damn thing it would have, or could have been a great album, especially if they included The Window and Whiskey from the Glass. Why they left two of the best cuts off the album is a mystery.

Exactly 

R😎

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6 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

WIC would've been much better had it not been produced to cater to grunge, which by that time was dying down anyway. It had a good variety of sounds and melodies and could've passed as a modern Zep album, but something about it seemed contrived.

WIC frustrates me as it does seem to suffer from an identity crisis. Is it a rock album? A blues album? Both? Are the strings on Upon A Golden Horse just the right touch or just too much? Don't get me started on Most High. It's a solid track I enjoy but it further pushes the album into everything and the kitchen sink territory. Ultimately, I think they made the wrong choice in Steve Albini as producer. There's no question that Albini is gifted at what he does, however what he doesn't do, by his own admission, is help the artists shape the album that is being made. He's not going to say, "guys, we need to pull this album together into a cohesive statement". He will say, "Ok, you said you wanted to add strings and Arabic chants now? We're rolling in 3, 2, 1".   

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Well said  Steve and agree so much.  Especially with Most High and  Albini's lack of production.  A song like Blue Train could have been so much better.  It seems like a stripped sown version of a potentially good song.  It needs a guitar solo.  It has one, but not in the sense I'm expecting from JP.  At the very least some guitar overdubs.  Much more this album could have been improved as has the potential to be very good as a lot of the material was there for this possibility.  But, it does have some highlights.

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19 minutes ago, SuperDave said:

Well said  Steve and agree so much.  Especially with Most High and  Albini's lack of production.  A song like Blue Train could have been so much better.  It seems like a stripped sown version of a potentially good song.  It needs a guitar solo.  It has one, but not in the sense I'm expecting from JP.  At the very least some guitar overdubs.  Much more this album could have been improved as has the potential to be very good as a lot of the material was there for this possibility.  But, it does have some highlights.

When you really think about it, WIC is Fate Of Nations after taking a sleeping pill. My point is for me FON is a great example of how one can present a cornucopia of sound within a cohesive framework. WIC has similar breadth and depth of variety, but it just doesn't have cohesion.

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14 minutes ago, SteveAJones said:

When you really think about it, WIC is Fate Of Nations after taking a sleeping pill. My point is for me FON is a great example of how one can present a cornucopia of sound within a cohesive framework. WIC has similar breadth and depth of variety, but it just doesn't have cohesion.

Couldn't have said it any better and way I feel about WIC and Plant's FON.  It's my favorite album of Plant's.  Not sure what he is doing now with the Space Shifters as he has good musicians but they don't seem to do more with the music as it could be so much better.  It's lacking creativity, I think.  Don't don't how else to say it.  I'm sorry but as big as a Zep fan and of RP as well, his music is starting to really bore me.  Just not doing anything for me now as his past albums obviously have.  I'm not even going to see him this tour as seen it before and doesn't look like anything new, even though he still puts on a good show.

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9 hours ago, Strider said:

And this. Although I rank "Walking Into Clarksdale" slightly above mediocre. 😏

The songs are great live. I think the album suffers from poor production 

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3 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

WIC frustrates me as it does seem to suffer from an identity crisis. Is it a rock album? A blues album? Both? Are the strings on Upon A Golden Horse just the right touch or just too much? Don't get me started on Most High. It's a solid track I enjoy but it further pushes the album into everything and the kitchen sink territory. Ultimately, I think they made the wrong choice in Steve Albini as producer. There's no question that Albini is gifted at what he does, however what he doesn't do, by his own admission, is help the artists shape the album that is being made. He's not going to say, "guys, we need to pull this album together into a cohesive statement". He will say, "Ok, you said you wanted to add strings and Arabic chants now? We're rolling in 3, 2, 1".   

Exactly. I’d love to see Page & Plant do a remastering / overhaul on WIC. Maybe call it “Returning To Clarksdale” or something. 

Its been 20 years. Great live performances from the 1998 Walking Into Everywhere Tour. 

R😎

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, reids said:

I’d love to see Page & Plant do a remastering / overhaul on WIC. Maybe call it “Returning To Clarksdale” or something. 

Start by changing the cover art. If I recall correctly, the working title for the album was Most High (to compliment the track by the same name) but it was changed just prior to release. However, the cover art wasn't. So again, without cover art that would perhaps help to pull ALL off the material together into a cohesive statement we have this sort of album that comes across as directionless or uncertain.

Edited by SteveAJones

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I rated “Shining in the light” . I always imagined this as the closest  to an actual zeppelin track. I can almost picture how it would sound if done at stargroves or headly. I would have thought it fertile ground for RP to rework, live, with his current set up.

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Posted (edited)

Speaking about the demise of Page & Plant, didn't Jimmy once say something along the lines of 'I wanted to eventually bring in John Paul Jones, but it was hard enough just getting two of us together'? 
I think that was in one of those more dubious Plant biographies, so I can't vouch for the accuracy of it,
but if so, could this have contributed to Robert calling it a day before P&P could gradually morph into a Zeppelin reformation? 
Not that I think Jonesy would've been all that receptive, at the time - there was more likely to have been 'no chance', as Steve said.  
 

Edited by Brigante

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9 hours ago, SuperDave said:

Couldn't have said it any better and way I feel about WIC and Plant's FON.  It's my favorite album of Plant's.  Not sure what he is doing now with the Space Shifters as he has good musicians but they don't seem to do more with the music as it could be so much better.  It's lacking creativity, I think.  Don't don't how else to say it.  I'm sorry but as big as a Zep fan and of RP as well, his music is starting to really bore me.  Just not doing anything for me now as his past albums obviously have.  I'm not even going to see him this tour as seen it before and doesn't look like anything new, even though he still puts on a good show.

Since the early 2000s Plant switched his musical style up from solid, structured songwriting to some weird tribal/trance format that has no beginning or end. It's just a repeating drum beat with dissonant chords while Plant dances on stage. I suppose that's what he does, with his ever evolving musical attitude, but I just don't care much for it. I've gotta have some kind of structure or catchy melody to keep me interested. Sadly though, he's been writing some of his most poignant lyrics lately.

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1 hour ago, Brigante said:

Speaking about the demise of Page & Plant, didn't Jimmy once say something along the lines of 'I wanted to eventually bring in John Paul Jones, but it was hard enough just getting two of us together'? 

Absolute nonsense. I guarantee those words were never spoken.

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4 hours ago, JAP said:

I rated “Shining in the light” . I always imagined this as the closest  to an actual zeppelin track. I can almost picture how it would sound if done at stargroves or headly. I would have thought it fertile ground for RP to rework, live, with his current set up.

I agree. On a recent re-listen to WIC it was the only song which got my juices flowing.

With a bit more production and work it had the makings of a great song.

Also agree that the Window was the best song from the WIC sessions by a country mile.

This was the sort of contemporary sound and direction they should have been pursuing, not the somnambulist dirge that was WIC.

So frustrating as we waited for years for them to get back in the studio and they delivered an audio Xanax.

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