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Whigged

John Paul Jones Snubbed Page & Plant?

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49 minutes ago, SteveAJones said:

Absolute nonsense. I guarantee those words were never spoken.

Cheers, Steve. Good to get piffle like this swept off the table before the rumours take hold.
Can't remember which book it was in, but it did seem unlikely!

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1 hour ago, Boleskinner said:

 

This was the sort of contemporary sound and direction they should have been pursuing, not the somnambulist dirge that was WIC.

So frustrating as we waited for years for them to get back in the studio and they delivered an audio Xanax.

:hysterical:

That was beautiful, I believe I may have just pissed myself with that one.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Start by changing the cover art. If I recall correctly, the working title for the album was Most High (to compliment the track by the same name) but it was changed just prior to release. However, the cover art wasn't. So again, without cover art that would perhaps help to pull ALL off the material together into a cohesive statement we have this sort of album that comes across as directionless or uncertain.

That would be perfect to rename it “Most High” , give it an update (overhaul) and make it a cohesive statement. Add in a bonus dvd / blu ray of one of their best 1998 tour dates as a bonus. It could bring a lot more validity to their P&P partnership, while giving us something more.

R😎

Edited by reids

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18 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

WIC frustrates me as it does seem to suffer from an identity crisis. Is it a rock album? A blues album? Both? Are the strings on Upon A Golden Horse just the right touch or just too much? Don't get me started on Most High. It's a solid track I enjoy but it further pushes the album into everything and the kitchen sink territory. Ultimately, I think they made the wrong choice in Steve Albini as producer. There's no question that Albini is gifted at what he does, however what he doesn't do, by his own admission, is help the artists shape the album that is being made. He's not going to say, "guys, we need to pull this album together into a cohesive statement". He will say, "Ok, you said you wanted to add strings and Arabic chants now? We're rolling in 3, 2, 1".   

 

17 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

When you really think about it, WIC is Fate Of Nations after taking a sleeping pill. My point is for me FON is a great example of how one can present a cornucopia of sound within a cohesive framework. WIC has similar breadth and depth of variety, but it just doesn't have cohesion.

Absolutely well said and fully agree on both comments. 

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, SuperDave said:

I'm sorry but as big as a Zep fan and of RP as well, his music is starting to really bore me.  Just not doing anything for me now as his past albums obviously have.

I'll agree. His last four releases (all the way back to Raising Sand) have been too much of a departure for me. I will always like his voice even now, but just the style of his last four releases hasn't done anything for me I'll admit.

Edited by luvlz2

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I wish I could have a shot at re mixing WIC.  It's a murky mess with all Pages best stuff just buried!

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3 hours ago, luvlz2 said:

I'll agree. His last four releases (all the way back to Raising Sand) have been too much of a departure for me. I will always like his voice even now, but just the style of his last four releases hasn't done anything for me I'll admit.

I agree but there was a lot of Raising Sand I did like.  Three are some tunes on the others I do like as well but some of it that doesn't do a lot for me.  His best not including Raising Sand being "Might Rearranger" as lot of good material there.  To me it's still not as good as his earlier solo material through "Fate of Nations", which may be his best solo effort and also his best band as well as when I saw him live on that tour.

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Ha, this is hilarious...a thread about Jones being snubbed and guess what? Jones is again being snubbed in his own thread.

Poor Jonsey

 

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7 hours ago, IpMan said:

Ha, this is hilarious...a thread about Jones being snubbed and guess what? Jones is again being snubbed in his own thread.

Poor Jonsey

 

Ha 😀 Guess it was time after 20 years to talk about the much needed overhaul of WIC (aka Most High).If P/P can update/re-release Unledded / No Quarter with a red cover and added tracks (also releasing a dvd, too), then they can surely do the same for WIC. Maybe Jonesy can help JP / RP w/ the production / arrangement? 😁

R😎

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On 18/04/2018 at 8:57 PM, SteveAJones said:

WIC frustrates me as it does seem to suffer from an identity crisis. Is it a rock album? A blues album? Both? Are the strings on Upon A Golden Horse just the right touch or just too much? Don't get me started on Most High. It's a solid track I enjoy but it further pushes the album into everything and the kitchen sink territory. Ultimately, I think they made the wrong choice in Steve Albini as producer. There's no question that Albini is gifted at what he does, however what he doesn't do, by his own admission, is help the artists shape the album that is being made. He's not going to say, "guys, we need to pull this album together into a cohesive statement". He will say, "Ok, you said you wanted to add strings and Arabic chants now? We're rolling in 3, 2, 1".   

He also didn’t take ( and rarely takes) the producers credit, preferring to be credited as engineer which is essentially what he does. I believe JP and Robert were the acknowledged producers on this. 

Personally I really like WIC, I preferred it to Unledded and thought it was far superior to Coverdale/Page .

also regarding Jimmy saying he wanted to bring JPJ in i too remember reading that, I’m not sure where but it was long after the partnership had ended. It could quite possibly have been in the Nick Kent interview in the 2003 Q Special.

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16 hours ago, IpMan said:

Ha, this is hilarious...a thread about Jones being snubbed and guess what? Jones is again being snubbed in his own thread.

Poor Jonsey

 

Won't someone on here remember that man's phone number!

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3 hours ago, 76229 said:

Won't someone on here remember that man's phone number!

:hysterical:

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On 20/04/2018 at 1:43 PM, babysquid said:

also regarding Jimmy saying he wanted to bring JPJ in i too remember reading that, I’m not sure where but it was long after the partnership had ended. It could quite possibly have been in the Nick Kent interview in the 2003 Q Special.

Funnily enough I was reading a thing on Ultimate classic rock about Guitar Center being in trouble and the story that popped up next was a 20 year retrospective on Walking into Clarksdale. Containing this quote:

"I wanted to keep working, but Robert wouldn't hear of it," Page told Q Magazine. "Also, I wanted to eventually bring in John Paul Jones, but it was hard enough getting two of us together, never mind three."

So there it is, Page did indeed say it in Q though not sure when.

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26 minutes ago, 76229 said:

Funnily enough I was reading a thing on Ultimate classic rock about Guitar Center being in trouble and the story that popped up next was a 20 year retrospective on Walking into Clarksdale. Containing this quote:

"I wanted to keep working, but Robert wouldn't hear of it," Page told Q Magazine. "Also, I wanted to eventually bring in John Paul Jones, but it was hard enough getting two of us together, never mind three."

So there it is, Page did indeed say it in Q though not sure when.

Seems he's referring to what would have been an album or two after WIC, which was completed.

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51 minutes ago, SteveAJones said:

Seems he's referring to what would have been an album or two after WIC, which was completed.

Personally I believe Plant walked as (I speculate) he felt the live shows, as excellent as Page was playing in '98, were getting too close back to the Zep blueprint. Whatever he said at the time about not being sure how many more English Springs he'd see, my gut feeling was that he felt it was beginning to turn into a "Zep reunion just with a different rhythm section" sort of thing. So, off he went to Priory of Brion etc.

Back OT, if it had lasted longer, and Jones had been asked in say 2003, rather than earlier, wonder what his answer would have been? He'd finished touring The Thunderthief by then.

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Jpj would have made it much different and probably better. But page and plant in the 90s seemed to be designed for low key records, yet great live shows. After the 98 show i saw, i felt so happy...and expected to be seeing them for atleast a 4 to  5 yr run after that. 

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Posted (edited)
On ‎22‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 6:07 PM, 76229 said:

"I wanted to keep working, but Robert wouldn't hear of it," Page told Q Magazine. "Also, I wanted to eventually bring in John Paul Jones, but it was hard enough getting two of us together, never mind three."

So there it is, Page did indeed say it in Q though not sure when.

Yes, I finally dug out the book I'd seen it in - it's on p.154 of Neil Daniels' Robert Plant biography. Not a great book, so hadn't looked at it in a long time and only had a vague memory of it. In the light of Jimmy's comment, it's quite clear that he and Robert had different ideas and expectations re. P & P.    

Edited by Brigante

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Why's it so hard to wrap our heads around Jimmy joins Robert and his solo band?  That's basically what it was, no?  It's happened many times live.

Produced by Page/Plant, recorded LIVE in the studio (with only a few overdubs) by Albini, that's the way P/P visioned the project.  A blues/LZ1 style live throwback.  I'm sure Steve A.J. has the interviews to back this up.

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RP was in the driving seat with WIC . He wanted Albini for a more"modern" take on the 

P&P sound .Plus lack of guitar solo's again down to Plant.

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From what I undestand they didn't want it to be called a Zeppelin reunion so one of them had to watch.

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Well, the whole beginning of Jimmy teaming up with Robert was when Robert was asked to do Unplugged, and Robert asked Jimmy to join him for it. So really it was Jimmy joining Robert’s camp.

I do find it peculiar that with Jonesy’s taste in folky mandolin music that Robert has never collaborated with him. For me, I’d really enjoy it. I doubt we see any of the guys ever recording together again

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On 4/23/2018 at 3:30 AM, 76229 said:

Back OT, if it had lasted longer, and Jones had been asked in say 2003, rather than earlier, wonder what his answer would have been? He'd finished touring The Thunderthief by then.

We can only speculate to what extent Page would have wanted to bring him in. The first problem of course it that it wasn't Robert's idea to do so, and the second is to make room for JPJ as a full-fledged member they would have had to shove someone out. Not to mention at that point it has just become a reformed Led Zeppelin. Again, I can't see Robert supporting any of that whatsoever. This leaves us with JPJ, at most, contributing to a song or two on the third album. 

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On 4/22/2018 at 2:30 PM, 76229 said:

Personally I believe Plant walked as (I speculate) he felt the live shows, as excellent as Page was playing in '98, were getting too close back to the Zep blueprint. Whatever he said at the time about not being sure how many more English Springs he'd see, my gut feeling was that he felt it was beginning to turn into a "Zep reunion just with a different rhythm section" sort of thing. So, off he went to Priory of Brion etc.

Back OT, if it had lasted longer, and Jones had been asked in say 2003, rather than earlier, wonder what his answer would have been? He'd finished touring The Thunderthief by then.

Agree.

Yeah, heaven forbid that plant gets back to the roots that made him famous. Instead we have that Raising Sand garbage he is so proud of and now SSS. I think Jimmy blew it by not just seeing the light with plant back in the early-mid 90s, getting Jones and Jason together and picking up a new singer. THAT would have lit a fire under plants butt. A new Zeppelin kicking ass without him.

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