Jump to content
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
TheMadIrishman

Can we stop with Elvis being “King” of Rock and Roll

Recommended Posts

To start off this rant of nonsensical jargon, Elvis Presley started his career in 1955, becoming an international hit all over the world. He led a very successful and fantastic career until his death in 1977. So with the “King” dead, he left a legacy that became known to us as the “King of Rock and Roll”. 

Now go back to 1953, when Chuck Berry started his career. This was a very overlooked moment in Rock history. Elvis, being the hottest shit since sliced bread, steam rolled a lot of brilliant talent. And if we really think about it, Elvis had really only a couple of true rock and roll songs such as “Hound Dog” and “Jailhouse Rock”. Chuck Berry on the other hand was a madman on the guitar. He lived and breathed Rock and Roll. Whenever I personally think of classic Rock and Roll, I immediately think of those classic 50’s riffs from Chuck Berry. And when it comes down to it, Chuck Berry was better than Elvis at the guitar, showmanship and songwriting. 

Now don’t get me wrong Elvis is fantastic and one of the greatest rock artists ever. But does he really deserve the title King of Rock and Roll? No, this title should be revoked and given to Chuck Berry. So with this being placed on the table, what do you say? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chuck Berry is a Founding Father of Rock 'n' Roll, but Elvis Presley is The King. It's not even close by any measure of merit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The opening drums by Bonham on 'Rock n Roll' is actually the same opening of Johnny B. Goode by Chuck Berry. ^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, redrum said:

The opening drums by Bonham on 'Rock n Roll' is actually the same opening of Johnny B. Goode by Chuck Berry. ^_^

Wut?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everytime I hear Johnny B. Goode I think of Louis Jordan.

While Chuck was certainly an influence on early Rock and Roll, many others were in the mix such as Little Richard.  There will be only be one Elvis. 8>)

Robert

www.anextranickel.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, redrum said:

The opening drums by Bonham on 'Rock n Roll' is actually the same opening of Johnny B. Goode by Chuck Berry. ^_^

That would be 'Keep A Knockin'' by Little Richard. ;)

6 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Wut?

^This.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Eddie Cochran is the king of rock and roll, in my opinion. 

He's really good!

Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Elvis, Buddy Holly is the Rock and Roll Mount Rushmore, imo, Eddie being a close 5th.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love Little Richard, but to me, "Rock and Roll" simply has to have a guitar as the main rhythmic instrument. I know the attitude is there, but to me it's more like what was called barrelhouse and juke joint music, which I wouldn't call rock and roll.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Sathington Willoughby said:

That would be 'Keep A Knockin'' by Little Richard. ;)

^This.

Could be too, but I think Johnny B. Goode is more accurate to Bonham's opening snare. Hell, I still can't get it right. 😕

If you wanna take time to watch this.

 

Edited by redrum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, redrum said:

Could be too, but I think Johnny B. Goode is more accurate to Bonham's opening snare. Hell, I still can't get it right. 😕

If you wanna take time to watch this.

 

Led Zeppelin guitarist Jimmy Page explained that the song developed from a spontaneous jam session, whilst the band were trying (and failing) to finish the track "Four Sticks", at the Headley Grange mansion they had rented in Hampshire, England to record the track. John Bonham began by playing the drum introduction from the Little Richard song "Keep A-Knockin'" to which Page added a Chuck Berry-style guitar riff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_(Led_Zeppelin_song)#Overview

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a huge fan of Elvis, the OP is for all intent and purpose right. Elvis cannot even lay claim to the King of Pop (which is really what Elvis did, not Rock n' Roll) as that title would arguably go to Bing Crosby. Elvis was the King of "white guys who could sing like black guys while moving around suggestively on stage." Elvis never really wrote much, did not compose, he was a guy with a very gifted voice, crazy good looks, who could move well on stage and that pretty much sums it up.

Also as the OP stated, Elvis simply outshined those who came before who were the true pioneers such as Chuck Berry, the real King of Rock n' Roll. The problem is Berry was black and thus could not cross over to the white audiences with the success of Elvis. Funny thing is, Elvis was made into Elvis by Sam Philips who made Elvis sing the way he did and explained to him how a song should be delivered. At first, most people thought Elvis was some hillbilly with a decent voice and zero personality. It was Philips who told Elvis he had better sing the way he (sam) wanted or GTFO. It was then that Elvis with the guidance of Moore & Black turned out his version of That's Alright Mama. Again, one cannot dismiss the influence of Moore and Black in the early success of Elvis, without them Elvis would have lived and died a nobody truck driver in Mississippi.

Now I know many are not gone like my assessment but the facts are the facts. We can call Elvis the King all day an night but it does not make it factually so. Berry is the King and the funny thing is I like Elvis much, much more than Berry but my preference does not change fact.

Ok...y'all can whop me arse now :black_eye::buttsmack:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't the question who do you like listening to more? That seems to me a far more valuable way of determining who the "King" is.

 @IpMan you say yourself you like Elvis much, much more, and you are not alone. I'd guess those who like (love) Elvis outnumbers those who like (love) Berry by a factor of many tens of millions, and that's probably conservative. This applies to any comparison between Elvis and anyone else who's been previously mentioned, and hence the public has annointed him the "King". For me, it's how he emotes and posseses the lyrics he sings combined with his voice that make him stand so far above the others. It sounds like many on this page are arguing for "who deserves to be recognized as the first" or the "first Pioneer of Rock". But none of them are the King, and the pioneer is different from the king. None had the appeal, and while the color of their skin obviously at the time was a hindrance, they did not have the voice which captivated so many, nor the looks, and therefore even if they were white I don't think they'd stand with Elvis in the eye of the public. 

First does not mean best, and it seems we give the term King of to whoever the best is, by record sales and public appeal. It's so easy to listen to Elvis, I find, so enjoyable (unless he's hitting you where it hurts, which is likely what I'd say he's best at). Can't be said to the same extent for hardly anyone else. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, paplbojo said:

Isn't the question who do you like listening to more? That seems to me a far more valuable way of determining who the "King" is.

 @IpMan you say yourself you like Elvis much, much more, and you are not alone. I'd guess those who like (love) Elvis outnumbers those who like (love) Berry by a factor of many tens of millions, and that's probably conservative. This applies to any comparison between Elvis and anyone else who's been previously mentioned, and hence the public has annointed him the "King". For me, it's how he emotes and posseses the lyrics he sings combined with his voice that make him stand so far above the others. It sounds like many on this page are arguing for "who deserves to be recognized as the first" or the "first Pioneer of Rock". But none of them are the King, and the pioneer is different from the king. None had the appeal, and while the color of their skin obviously at the time was a hindrance, they did not have the voice which captivated so many, nor the looks, and therefore even if they were white I don't think they'd stand with Elvis in the eye of the public. 

First does not mean best, and it seems we give the term King of to whoever the best is, by record sales and public appeal. It's so easy to listen to Elvis, I find, so enjoyable (unless he's hitting you where it hurts, which is likely what I'd say he's best at). Can't be said to the same extent for hardly anyone else. 

Fair point made, without a doubt, but I still believe the title of King, whatever that means, should be earned. Elvis was not a pioneer and most importantly, to me at least, he did not write his own songs. Also, per his own admission, his goal was not music but movies, acting and this is why he pretty much put his musical career on hold for almost a decade. Elvis was actually pretty pissed that they required him to sing in his movies as he believed himself a serious actor. 

As far as I am concerned, Elvis had a very brief career in rock and roll, and a pretty decent career singing pop and country tunes to the blue-hairs in Vegas. I felt sorry for the man as most of this had to do with that parasite Col. Parker. Elvis wanted to sing gospel first and foremost plus Rock and Roll. All that pop shit was Col. Tom's idea.

Fuck Col. Tom. I believe there is a special level of hell reserved for that guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

With all due respect to Elvis, I see him as a crooner who got marketed as rock and roll, and had some good guitar players. Almost like a crossover style. But I guess it comes down to one's definition of "Rock and Roll". Elvis didn't have that stripped down, raunchy sound that Berry, Cochran, or even Gene Vincent had. Something about his music seemed too contrived. But obviously, he was way more successful at delivering that style to the mainstream. So I suppose his success makes him the King? I think the "King of entertainers" is a more fitting title, since he strayed away from "rock and roll" quite often.

Edit: Then again, ask any 70s rock artist who their main influence was. Probably Elvis. Both Page and Plant cite him as the main inspiration for their music career.

Edited by gibsonfan159

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, IpMan said:

As a huge fan of Elvis, the OP is for all intent and purpose right. Elvis cannot even lay claim to the King of Pop (which is really what Elvis did, not Rock n' Roll) as that title would arguably go to Bing Crosby. Elvis was the King of "white guys who could sing like black guys while moving around suggestively on stage." Elvis never really wrote much, did not compose, he was a guy with a very gifted voice, crazy good looks, who could move well on stage and that pretty much sums it up.

Also as the OP stated, Elvis simply outshined those who came before who were the true pioneers such as Chuck Berry, the real King of Rock n' Roll. The problem is Berry was black and thus could not cross over to the white audiences with the success of Elvis. Funny thing is, Elvis was made into Elvis by Sam Philips who made Elvis sing the way he did and explained to him how a song should be delivered. At first, most people thought Elvis was some hillbilly with a decent voice and zero personality. It was Philips who told Elvis he had better sing the way he (sam) wanted or GTFO. It was then that Elvis with the guidance of Moore & Black turned out his version of That's Alright Mama. Again, one cannot dismiss the influence of Moore and Black in the early success of Elvis, without them Elvis would have lived and died a nobody truck driver in Mississippi.

Now I know many are not gone like my assessment but the facts are the facts. We can call Elvis the King all day an night but it does not make it factually so. Berry is the King and the funny thing is I like Elvis much, much more than Berry but my preference does not change fact.

Ok...y'all can whop me arse now :black_eye::buttsmack:

In other words, what DipMan is saying is Elvis merely exercised his white privilege. In so doing he committed micro aggressions against Chuck Berry and other black artists who were just so downright fucking sensational and original in their own right. If that were so it remains a mystery why a white hillbilly from Mississippi who didn't compose, seldom wrote, got by on his looks and his stage moves could come along and completely overshadow them until this very day. Oh wait, DipMan says Elvis was merely propped up by white establishment figures.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, gibsonfan159 said:

With all due respect to Elvis, I see him as a crooner who got marketed as rock and roll, and had some good guitar players. Almost like a crossover style. But I guess it comes down to one's definition of "Rock and Roll". Elvis didn't have that stripped down, raunchy sound that Berry, Cochran, or even Gene Vincent had. Something about his music seemed too contrived. But obviously, he was way more successful at delivering that style to the mainstream. So I suppose his success makes him the King? I think the "King of entertainers" is a more fitting title, since he strayed away from "rock and roll" quite often.

Edit: Then again, ask any 70s rock artist who their main influence was. Probably Elvis. Both Page and Plant cite him as the main inspiration for their music career.

Good grief, do they still teach American history in school? Elvis was not a crooner. If anything, one could argue he was originally a Country Music artist who ultimately transcended genres. Make no mistake, Elvis was transcendent! Elvis was a cultural tsunami that washed away all that had come before. Elvis pushed the boundaries of popular music from "How Much Is That Doggy in the Window?" to "Hound Dog", "Heartbreak Hotel" and "Blue Suede Shoes". Elvis pushed the boundaries of performance from "...Mister Sandman, bring me a dream..." to this son of a bitch is such a gyrating badass we can't even show him on public television from the waist down! Elvis Presley from 1956 to 1957 was a phenomena that changed America and the world forever.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

This aired two weeks ago. 

 

EDIT: Gave me the f'n chills! 

Edited by paplbojo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Sathington Willoughby said:

Led Zeppelin guitarist Jimmy Page explained that the song developed from a spontaneous jam session, whilst the band were trying (and failing) to finish the track "Four Sticks", at the Headley Grange mansion they had rented in Hampshire, England to record the track. John Bonham began by playing the drum introduction from the Little Richard song "Keep A-Knockin'" to which Page added a Chuck Berry-style guitar riff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_(Led_Zeppelin_song)#Overview

That may be true, but to me it still lines up better with Johnny B. Goode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×