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irondirigible

With all the great bootlegs out there, why are there not more official releases of live shows?

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The Rolling Stones' "From The Vaults" series is getting almost tiresome.  But for Stones fans, like me, its still awesome.  I have no doubt there are many more of these archival releases to come in the future.

 

Why is there no equivalent for LZ?  There are TONS of great live shows that can be seen online.  So the tapes are obviously out there.  Is it a legal matter of who owns them, or something like that?

I enjoy the 3 live albums we do have, but I think there could be more and I would pre-order them in a heartbeat.

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Well I'm the first responder, ha, ha. Reason # 1 Jimmy Page. It's very clear from the serious whitewashing  of TSRTS and HTWWW that Jimmy can't accept letting his mistakes rest, he has to put his sticky fingers in, although the latest BBC

stuff was so well played that serious corrections weren't necessary and the stuff was pro recorded anyway. But I find Jimmy's

attitude silly, as even if one solo live didn't quite work, often the next song would have an excellent solo. Now there is some possible gray area with Zep playing covers live and some copyright issues. One of the best examples is the WLL oldies 

medley, but I have no idea if there was trouble with that on TSRTS. Reason# 2 The remaining Zep's, I've never heard any enthusiasm EVER for cleaning up boots or having large numbers of live stuff put out. Jimmy as I understand it can basically

call the shots himself, but again Robert and John Paul simply don't care. A possible third reason is that it's not entirely clear

that this gambit would make much money, although obviously it would be great for huge Zep fans.

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Posted (edited)

I mostly attribute it to Peter Grant's lack of foresight. He dropped the ball, big time

Edited by paplbojo

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The vast majority of bootleg releases do not contain content that is official release grade quality. Additionally every official studio or live Led Zeppelin release brings with it substantial promotional duties. Jimmy Page has, for the most part taken them all on himself. Finally, their label is careful about market saturation so from a business plan standpoint prefers to see live releases spread out over a period of years.

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5 hours ago, irondirigible said:

The Rolling Stones' "From The Vaults" series is getting almost tiresome.  But for Stones fans, like me, its still awesome.  I have no doubt there are many more of these archival releases to come in the future.

 

Why is there no equivalent for LZ?  There are TONS of great live shows that can be seen online.  So the tapes are obviously out there.  Is it a legal matter of who owns them, or something like that?

I enjoy the 3 live albums we do have, but I think there could be more and I would pre-order them in a heartbeat.

Steve's comments are spot on. But what would like to ad is the fact that the Stones owned their own mobile studio, whereas Jimmy had to rent either Wally Heider's in the US. Or Ronnie Lanes, Stones or the Pye mobile for live recording. Which is expensive. 

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5 hours ago, paplbojo said:

I mostly attribute it to Peter Grant's lack of foresight. He dropped the ball, big time

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. In the heat of the moment of the 70's I doubt in his wildest imagination in near 50 years time people would be clamoring for those tapes he was smashing.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

The vast majority of bootleg releases do not contain content that is official release grade quality. Additionally every official studio or live Led Zeppelin release brings with it substantial promotional duties. Jimmy Page has, for the most part taken them all on himself. Finally, their label is careful about market saturation so from a business plan standpoint prefers to see live releases spread out over a period of years.

Meh,  King Crimson is selling bootlegs of their shows going all the way back to the 60's and many of the sources are not so great. DGM has been running for years, I myself have purchased 18 shows since they came online so if Kc can do it Led Zeppelin certainly can too.  Another band related to Kc  Tony Levin's Stick Men is also selling auds and board tapes and they are nowhere near as well known as Kc or Zep, again, if they can do it Led Zeppelin could too.  They may not fly off the shelves forever but having them available through your own media management is far more desirable than having EVSD releasing them. It could be a viable source of revenue in perpetuity. 

Edited by hummingbird69

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9 hours ago, irondirigible said:

The Rolling Stones' "From The Vaults" series is getting almost tiresome.  But for Stones fans, like me, its still awesome. 

How can something be both tiresome and awesome?😀

I flooding the market wish numerous live releases of varying quality might dilute the potency of the band’s mystique . 

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8 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

The vast majority of bootleg releases do not contain content that is official release grade quality. Additionally every official studio or live Led Zeppelin release brings with it substantial promotional duties. Jimmy Page has, for the most part taken them all on himself. Finally, their label is careful about market saturation so from a business plan standpoint prefers to see live releases spread out over a period of years.

This is true.  Many bootlegs show great artistry but sound quality is simply bad.  Wouldn't it be glorious is both were at the same level?

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50 minutes ago, babysquid said:

How can something be both tiresome and awesome?😀

I flooding the market wish numerous live releases of varying quality might dilute the potency of the band’s mystique . 

I used the word 'tiresome' very liberally to indicate that the release of these From The Vaults albums have become so regular and predictable.  Despite that, they're awesome. 

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What Steve said is quite true. Also, I think Jimmy wants every release to be a grand event, not a low key steady trickle like other

groups. And by now even the general public may have heard portions of good quality boots that are 5 times as amazing as most of TSRTS, etc., so if Jimmy decided to set up a Stones or King Crimson easy access (whatever)sbd or boot enterprise,

the weak , poor quality, or mediocre performances would hardly make a dent in Zep's musical significance. You don't need Aleister Crowley or a deck of tarot cards to experience magic. A legendary Zep show is real magic. In fact I make it a point 

to only listen to Zep live at least 3 hrs before bed, they are a perpetual energy machine

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Well, the way I see it, they could do a How The West Was Won II.  There are so many pieces of live shows, and many sound very good with incredible playing.  Sadly, some of the best playing they did live is found on bootlegs of poor sound quality.  But they could scrape together a bunch of tracks and make a new live compilation, which is basically what HTWWW is.

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Honestly?  

Recording live was expensive back then, and Led Wallet didn’t see the need for outlaying lots of cash to professionally record lots of shows like the Grateful Dead for example.  

Im sure Jimmy has few regrets in life, but not professionally filming and recording more live shows MIGHT be one of them.  

But I doubt it. 

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Two main reasons:

1. Page and Plant don't want their legacies tarnished with less-than-perfect performances.

2. There's just not that much that was recorded.

Thank goodness for all the bootlegs we have access to!

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With Jimmy and anything he does or doesn't do it's always feast or famine!

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Posted (edited)

There is also the issue of the vandalism of Page's tape vaults that occurred in the 1980's. What was taken could be the stuff that Page may have wanted to put out at some point. If he doesn't have the original master tapes, he's screwed. Because then you are dealing with sources where the audio gets worse and worse.

Suppose all soundboards from the 1977 tour were vandalized. Well, that's trouble, because as we all know, the band was often off and on during that tour. But if Page had all the tapes, he could've assembled a "best of the 1977 tour" so that only the best recorded version of "Achilles" was released, for instance. Same thing with the 1980 Tour of Europe. It appears that most of those tapes were lifted from Page's house as well. I mean, isn't almost every concert from that tour available on soundboard unofficially?? Again, another chance for Page to do a best of 1980 package instead of relying on just one gig.

Most of the live records that you hear by rock bands are not from a single show. They are from multiple shows. And with the advent of digital recording, it has allowed bands to record, say, 50 concerts during a tour so they have 50 versions of a particular tune to choose from.

I totally understand the argument of LZ wanting to retain its musical legacy, and to not put out crappy shows. But the best way to avoid this and yet to give LZ fans what they want has apparently been taken away from Pagey. It's to take a number of shows from a concert tour that were professionally recorded, and then assemble a best of live package. As up and down as the 1977 tour was, if Page had everything, he could probably assemble a live album that would live up to the band's legacy.

It really comes down to what he does and doesn't have. My sense is that the lack of LZ live releases speaks to what may have been taken from him as much as the quality of the shows.

 

 

Edited by ThreeSticks

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2 hours ago, ThreeSticks said:

There is also the issue of the vandalism of Page's tape vaults that occurred in the 1980's. What was taken could be the stuff that Page may have wanted to put out at some point. If he doesn't have the original master tapes, he's screwed. Because then you are dealing with sources where the audio gets worse and worse.

Suppose all soundboards from the 1977 tour were vandalized. Well, that's trouble, because as we all know, the band was often off and on during that tour. But if Page had all the tapes, he could've assembled a "best of the 1977 tour" so that only the best recorded version of "Achilles" was released, for instance. Same thing with the 1980 Tour of Europe. It appears that most of those tapes were lifted from Page's house as well. I mean, isn't almost every concert from that tour available on soundboard unofficially?? Again, another chance for Page to do a best of 1980 package instead of relying on just one gig.

Most of the live records that you hear by rock bands are not from a single show. They are from multiple shows. And with the advent of digital recording, it has allowed bands to record, say, 50 concerts during a tour so they have 50 versions of a particular tune to choose from.

I totally understand the argument of LZ wanting to retain its musical legacy, and to not put out crappy shows. But the best way to avoid this and yet to give LZ fans what they want has apparently been taken away from Pagey. It's to take a number of shows from a concert tour that were professionally recorded, and then assemble a best of live package. As up and down as the 1977 tour was, if Page had everything, he could probably assemble a live album that would live up to the band's legacy.

It really comes down to what he does and doesn't have. My sense is that the lack of LZ live releases speaks to what may have been taken from him as much as the quality of the shows.

 

 

Well said. I too feel this is the main reason we do not have more official live stuff. Considering how much of a perfectionist Page is and without access to the original master tapes, the Zep official live output is what we currently have. I feel this is also a reason why more official demos were not included on the Zeppelin Reissues... Page simply may not have access to the master tapes.

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