Boogie Mama Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 1 hour ago, porgie66 said: Empress Valley, if you're reading this... I would gladly pay$150 for the complete board tape, or as complete a version as possible then give$40 to eelgrass, and I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other fans who would do the same. So wise up! Do it right, and price it affordably because if you bought the tape you deserve the dollars more than these other companies who simply copy what you've acquired and released. At the end of the day, what where they thinking, when the news's first came out, they where charging way to much for the teasers, leaving everybody to wish & hope they were getting a full soundboard, but keeping peoples faith for people who bought the teasers, when only to find out it's incomplete leaving people p off, by there devious actions with their strategy game term's, it's the nature of the beast your gonna get an Eel in the grass & as Zep would say-there throwing away the cure. I feel ripped off by EV know, on top of they don't know how to master properly & I don't think they paid more than 5 -10k for the soundboard, as the word in Japan is, it was came from the Jap organizers, witch Zep played under, because they sound boarded the gig's anyway even if it wasn't asked for, it was just parcel & package it's likely Technik's had something to do with it, on this release why would they include there Handbill when previous it was packaged with there press release advertisement of their colour shot from that tour, are they still indented. I think they have the rest & they will probably release it on it's 929 50th, as an Anniversary special, as they are aware of Eelgrass etc & there not known for putting all there eggs in one basket & used to giving drips out anyway & love to repackage, That would be perfect for them, but I'm going to by the Eelgrass my (EV) order means nothing now & if anyone one feels tossed from the waltzers & feel's peeved too, EV is to blame, who I don't feel pity for as they only care only for there game strategy's & £ having access to a S board doesn't give them the right to do what they do. witch becomes there down fall. They should sit down & have a board meeting on any board's, they release, who knows if they have more ? 😕 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOsbourne Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 21 hours ago, porgie66 said: Also, does anyone know if Eelgrass is an offshoot( budget line ) of Empress Valley? If not, then they're just opportunists who rip and burn EVs product. Empress Valley has the proprietary source, and that means they are entitled to make a profit so they can keep presenting new sources....but this release is fucking bullshit. It's their way of summarily chastising their customers. EV has proprietary rights to nothing. It's a bootleg, remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOsbourne Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 3 hours ago, porgie66 said: Empress Valley, if you're reading this... I would gladly pay$150 for the complete board tape, or as complete a version as possible then give$40 to eelgrass, and I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other fans who would do the same. So wise up! Do it right, and price it affordably because if you bought the tape you deserve the dollars more than these other companies who simply copy what you've acquired and released. They're not reading this, and they don't have the complete source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOsbourne Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 21 hours ago, Bozoso73 said: A little off track but to the point about boots. I just recieved "A Memory Frozen Forever" 7.7.1980 Godfather Records 2 disc tri fold out from a seller on ebay for $26. Its an absolute beauty and was worth every penny. Granted it was off ebay but all Im saying is if 9.29 SBD was in this kind of format and sold for this much or even a bit higher up to $40 they would sell out considering the legend of the show. But given how expensive 3.21 was and this one following that path it just seems EV has taken a wrong turn somewhere. It didnt need to be butchered with a song here or there singled out, half the show (unless thats all they had), and no Plantations (which to me is a huge part of the shows). I have a lot of respect for EV and have a dozen EV silvers. Over the years they werent trying to take our wallets (too much anyway) and they put out a decent product but sometime over the last few shows the whole business plan seemed to change trying to hit homeruns instead of singles. About the price they paid Im not privy but I just got done reading about Freezer and the debacle that insude that came about with his AUD tape and he was paid $2000. for the masters. I know that 5.14.73 is not 9.29 but could EV paid anymore than $5000? Anymore just seems like a huge gamble considering how 3.21 went and how pissed they were about that spreading the internet. Just a thought. . I keep hearing that EV was angry about Seattle getting leaked and uploaded, but I'm trying to understand on what grounds. Isn't it a given these days that these bootlegs will get uploaded almost immediately upon release? It's not the early 2000's anymore. How can they be surprised and upset that this happened? At any rate this idea that they're only releasing a partial board of Osaka out of vindictiveness over Seattle last year is just ludicrous. They're a business, they're not going to forgo revenue to settle a score. Releasing the entire show in a few months is not going to address their central problem, which is that they can't make money anymore off of a public market. They've released what they have of 9-29. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonfan159 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 On 9/30/2018 at 6:38 PM, Autumn Moon said: I have paid and ordered the Geisha box already, but haven´t got it yet. Just to be clear: You realize you paid that amount for the packaging only. right? The audio will be available for free ,in the same quality EVSD released it, on the internet forever. The money you paid was just for the packaging. Do you honestly think it was worth it? Do you think that was a fair price for a cd case and some glossy booklets you could easily create yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluribus Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 hour ago, gibsonfan159 said: Just to be clear: You realize you paid that amount for the packaging only. right? The audio will be available for free ,in the same quality EVSD released it, on the internet forever. The money you paid was just for the packaging. Do you honestly think it was worth it? Do you think that was a fair price for a cd case and some glossy booklets you could easily create yourself? This is funny, as it aligns with your “Nitpicking Page” threads. Something to do with a lack in the ability to see the forest for the trees.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xolo1974 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 hour ago, gibsonfan159 said: Just to be clear: You realize you paid that amount for the packaging only. right? The audio will be available for free ,in the same quality EVSD released it, on the internet forever. The money you paid was just for the packaging. Do you honestly think it was worth it? Do you think that was a fair price for a cd case and some glossy booklets you could easily create yourself? I think that’s missing the point mate. I would have thought that anyway that bought the set did so because; a) they want the music and fancy packaging; and: b) they believe in the concept of maintaining a market for the bootleggers, which ensures future releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porgie66 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 3 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said: They're not reading this, and they don't have the complete source. OK, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porgie66 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Xolo1974 said: Great post George. Could not agree more Thanks, its nice to get more than a smug dismissal ....@JohnOsbourne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepster1979 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 6 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said: How can they be surprised and upset that this happened? They're not surprised but seriously pissed. I do see there's very small understanding here of what we would call a music industry. If people does not want to pay for the music, the artists / producers cannot afford money from it what causing lack of music. At the same time dozens of people are complaining about lack of new releases, lack of new good music, so tell me now why this happens? Are you enough smart to detect the reason? Since I am starting to be tired of that pointless discussion, I just wanna remind you that if you won't pay for a physical release (no matter from where it is sourced and if it's a bootleg or legit stuff), you cannot expect a future releases anymore, thus you cannot expect a new music. People that are keeping tapes in their vaults won't sell it for couple of bucks and they completely does not care abut the demand because the only thing they're after is money, big money. Forget about free downloads and liberation of any soundboards. It's more easy to imagine they'll take them to the grave than releasing someday just for nothing. This is a BUSINESS not a charity auction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moby_Dick_Ale Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, Ocean73 said: +1.Great post! KO!👍💪 Ordered my copy of the Geisha box last week. AirRaid posted it 9-29. Just delivered 10-3. Don't think this can get much quicker (from Japan to The Netherlands). I also think everyone is old enough to make a choice which is right, even if they want to "shell out their kid's Christmas money for a CD". ??? it's my money I use to buy presents for my kids, not theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie77 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 As Dylan said: "To live outside the law you must be honest." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moby_Dick_Ale Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Everybody has got it wrong, except Gibsonfan159. He’s right all the way....he thinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluribus Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said: Now I'm no expert on how GoFundMe works. I'm not sure what happens if something goes wrong or a minimum isn't reached. Maybe the money is refundable? I know the physical copy folks won't like this, but it honestly seems like the best way to make these recordings available, which is most important. For obvious starters, GoFundMe is a third-party based in the US, and under the rule of US Laws, which include all those laws about copyright infringement. Any posting about raising money for live tapes would be the equivalent to raising funds for a stolen painting. It would be immediately taken down, and the people who had started the fundraiser would be identified and probably put under investigation. This kind of idea is up there with those people who tried to use ebay to sell drugs back in the day. "Nobody will ever find out....you know, cuz the internet is ANONYMOUS, so I can do whatever I want!" On top of which, GoFundMe is also only 8 years old, and part of the recent tech boom - which itself has rewired the way that millions of people view things, to the point that the constant need for instant gratification has become a standard way of living. Everything that used to have limited accessibility due to technology is now getting ruined by it (especially music), and kids are growing up having never known a world where they couldn't get anything they wanted online, immediately, for free. EV is not a charity anymore than Facebook is. They are in it to make money. The "best way to make these recordings available" is not what's "most important" here. Making money is. That EV have been releasing never before heard soundboard sources for the past two decades speaks to the fact that they obviously know what they are doing, so that they get to make money, and we get to hear these amazing sources. If people didn't buy these releases, you wouldn't get to hear them. Period. Same applies for all of the work that literally thousands of people put in by sharing and preserving all of these tapes in lossless audio formats for the past 50 years, so that future fans could enjoy them. Yet, newbie fans still show up and assume that all of this music was just sitting here, waiting for them to enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porgie66 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 35 minutes ago, zepster1979 said: 'Coz I tend to do not like anyone who thinks they should get something just for free. Nothing is for free, you have to give something from you to get something instead from the others. And since music has a special place in my heart (because of multiple reasons), I have enough of such shit coming from those, who are going to pay no fuckin' attention and respect to those, who are working hard to serve something special. Don't like bootlegs? Do not buy them but also do not download them! Wanna support your fav artist? Buy their albums from your local store but do not download them without paying for it. Etc etc. And most important thing. If you're thinking that you have rights to share the music from bootlegs, aren't you play the dirty game sharing the illegal content, breaking copyright laws at the same time? I can even understand that but for God's sake, at least do not criticize anyone, who are making bootlegs and getting profits from it because you're doing the same; the only difference is fact you're trying to be a sheriff in the town and redistributing something that was stolen already. Never said I expect something for nothing. Read my posts. You know that is not the case with me. You're smarter than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticks of Fire Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Let’s stop guys. None of it is necessary. Back to the music.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluribus Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 hour ago, gibsonfan159 said: I was speaking from a fan's angle. As in- finding a way to get money into the label's hands so they will continue to release them. They're obviously not making the money they want, so they're gonna have to evolve or die. I don't like the repurcussions of the "freebie" society either, but it's not gonna change. I think you’re actually speaking from a “I want to get it for free” angle. Nobody knows how much money EV are/aren’t making. And the freebie society has already been here for years. And yet, EV keep putting out CDs, and keep putting out Soundboards, regardless of how many people upload them online. So, they already have the way to get money into their hands. The point remains: If people didn’t buy the CDs, you wouldn’t be able to get them later for “free”. The “you’re paying for packaging” trope has been recycled for 20 years. As it is, it took months for all 3 of the first 929 sample tracks to finally pop up in lossless online, because no one who bought the discs wanted to upload them. Notice that no one has uploaded the Last Adieu box yet, or any number of other bootleg titles. 929 was immediately put online because people knew it was the must-hear release of the decade. And if EV did deliberately make it so that they only released a portion of the tape on this release, then it looks like their strategy worked, didn’t it? People still bought it, just like they will buy the next one. And eventually, the free loaders will get their copy too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlennon696 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 One of the biggest and best releases of live Zep and the thread has to turn into.......whatever it's turned into. Anyway, this SBD just makes the show even better. Heartbreaker, SIBLY and Dazed esp are just tremendous with Jimmy in top, top form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumn Moon Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 18 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said: Just to be clear: You realize you paid that amount for the packaging only. right? The audio will be available for free ,in the same quality EVSD released it, on the internet forever. The money you paid was just for the packaging. Do you honestly think it was worth it? Do you think that was a fair price for a cd case and some glossy booklets you could easily create yourself? Don´t you worry about that. Please don´t get lost in irrelevant details, you got to concentrate on your "Nitpicking Page 77 mission". There is plenty of work: 4/27 Cleveland, Houston, Fort Worth, that whole lovely Landover run...................... 16 hours ago, Xolo1974 said: I think that’s missing the point mate. I would have thought that anyway that bought the set did so because; a) they want the music and fancy packaging; and: b) they believe in the concept of maintaining a market for the bootleggers, which ensures future releases. Yesssssssss, it´s a&b and b&a! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticks of Fire Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Someone should add the acoustic set from the multitrack recording to the soundboard set. The acoustic set sounds pretty darn good on the multitrack and would fill out the soundboard source for a more complete feel of the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOsbourne Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 20 hours ago, porgie66 said: OK, thanks. You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOsbourne Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 17 hours ago, zepster1979 said: They're not surprised but seriously pissed. I do see there's very small understanding here of what we would call a music industry. If people does not want to pay for the music, the artists / producers cannot afford money from it what causing lack of music. At the same time dozens of people are complaining about lack of new releases, lack of new good music, so tell me now why this happens? Are you enough smart to detect the reason? Since I am starting to be tired of that pointless discussion, I just wanna remind you that if you won't pay for a physical release (no matter from where it is sourced and if it's a bootleg or legit stuff), you cannot expect a future releases anymore, thus you cannot expect a new music. People that are keeping tapes in their vaults won't sell it for couple of bucks and they completely does not care abut the demand because the only thing they're after is money, big money. Forget about free downloads and liberation of any soundboards. It's more easy to imagine they'll take them to the grave than releasing someday just for nothing. This is a BUSINESS not a charity auction! Right, it is a business, which is why they're not going to dick around with drawn-out, partial releases and such (anger is a bad way to run things and at any rate partial releases don't really help them in the long run). And they're not going to just sit on the handful of remaining "Soundboard Revolution" tapes they almost certainly have. Which means they're also NOT going to try to sell physical copies to the (public) market at large as their primary business plan, that ship has sailed. What they're likely doing now is having private auctions (preceded by samplers/teasers) for wealthy collectors, that's where they're going to get the money for all of this. When they've hit their targets there, then they'll release something to the public for gravy. So I fully expect a few more shows (the reason there are fewer and fewer is not because of downloading, it's because the well truly is running dry, it's a fantasy to think there's tons of tapes squirreled away somewhere), without having to pay a dime for them. It's a win-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluribus Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, JohnOsbourne said: Right, it is a business, which is why they're not going to dick around with drawn-out, partial releases and such... But "drawn-out, partial releases" are exactly what they've done with both Deus Ex Machina and now, How The East Was Won. Samplers came first, followed by months of waiting for a longer release. There are also several EV titles, like 3/7/70, 9/4/71, 9/28/71, and 6/26/77, where EV used alternate aud or sbd sources to complete the primary source - and those alt sources still haven't circulated in any complete form. They were also the only ones to get a hold of the original TMoQ Blueberry Hill source from a non-bootleg source, which is not likely something they got from their soundboard connection. It's the same with the video clips that they've put out. They put out a DVD set awhile ago, and it just happened to have 2 dozen upgrades of video from all sorts of sources. No way that they just all of a sudden hit some jack pot of random video snippets. For as long as EV have been doing this, I would imagine that they have several new sources and upgrades to old ones that most people have never heard before, and that just aren't a priority for them to release anytime soon. For all we know, they've had the Osaka soundboard for years. And where are you getting this "private auction" theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOsbourne Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, pluribus said: But "drawn-out, partial releases" are exactly what they've done with both Deus Ex Machina and now, How The East Was Won. Samplers came first, followed by months of waiting for a longer release. There are also several EV titles, like 3/7/70, 9/4/71, 9/28/71, and 6/26/77, where EV used alternate aud or sbd sources to complete the primary source - and those alt sources still haven't circulated in any complete form. They were also the only ones to get a hold of the original TMoQ Blueberry Hill source from a non-bootleg source, which is not likely something they got from their soundboard connection. It's the same with the video clips that they've put out. They put out a DVD set awhile ago, and it just happened to have 2 dozen upgrades of video from all sorts of sources. No way that they just all of a sudden hit some jack pot of random video snippets. For as long as EV have been doing this, I would imagine that they have several new sources and upgrades to old ones that most people have never heard before, and that just aren't a priority for them to release anytime soon. For all we know, they've had the Osaka soundboard for years. And where are you getting this "private auction" theory? I'm sorry but this is just specious. Seattle was released as a complete show, the samplers to prime the pump have nothing to do with that. Neither does mixing incomplete soundboards with audience sources. There is absolutely no reason to believe they have the complete boards of the shows you listed, and there is absolutely no reason to believe they have the complete 9-29 show. The private auction theory is speculation, but it's the only way I can see how bootleg companies can make money these days, since the shows will be uploaded almost immediately upon release for sale to the general public, as Osaka was. None of other explanations I've seen here make sense, so it's simply a question of eliminating the least plausible alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Only Way To Fly Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, JohnOsbourne said: People that are keeping tapes in their vaults won't sell it for couple of bucks and they completely does not care abut the demand because the only thing they're after is money, big money. I'm curious about what kind of money we're talking about. How much could one expect; for example, of a cassette tape of a Blueberry Hill quality audience recording of Iceland 1970 or a soundboard of the two shows in Copenhagen from 1979? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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