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09/29/1971 Osaka - Stairway To Heaven - EVSD SBD Single

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27 minutes ago, ZepHead315 said:

? Look, you have a point about EVSD needing to turn a profit, hence why the prices have been so high. 

One only has to ask; Are they turning a profit? If not, then they're a poorly managed business. If they're paying more for the sources than they can get out of them, then that's bad negotiating. There will always be leeches, but putting prices on physical copies so high that even the people interested in them can't afford them is plain stupid. You lose both sides that way. Putting a disclaimer that says "please stop" isn't gonna do shit.

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2 hours ago, zepster1979 said:

You're 100 percent wrong! Don't mess up things together and try to understand that bootlegs means money and only money. If EVSD is keen to pay a lot of $$$ to liberate an unhearded soundboard recording, everybody (I mean everybody all around the world) should be enough grateful for that and honouring their request to not uploading / torrenting their productions unless copies are sold out (or are close to be sold out). The price of these sets might be lower a little bit but I assume that this is because of constant copying and sharing their products online, and not buying silvers. In the other words, less you pay, more you have to spend. It's an economy. Someone behind the label have to pay for these recordings and someone behind the label have to get some profits from it, it's more than easy to realize, right?. Torrents are killing music industry IN EVERY ASPECT because millions of people who are thinking they can get anything for free do not pay any single penny to the artists and producers (and all the people involved) and this leads to the situation, where being a musician means no profit. It's just like performing on stage and getting no fees for that.

So, at the end, the only real lazy opportunists I do see now is you and all the people, who are getting the stuff for nothing and even complaining why it wasn't so good (ie. more complete, better sounding, etc.).

I couldn't agree more Zepster...! 👍

 

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We hear the phrase "lots of money/$$$" thrown around but how much are EVSD, Moonchild, Wendy, Eat a Peach, and other labels actually paying for these tapes?

I have never seen a verifiable figure published and to my knowledge I don't recall any one of these tape hoarders coming public with the amount of money they received for one of their tapes.

I mean, are we talking low four-figures or high four-figures? Is it as high as five-figures? I doubt it would be as much as six-figures but until someone comes clean, who knows?

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2 hours ago, Bonzo_fan said:

@gibsonfan159 Can you please do a nitpick of this show now that (some) of the soundboard is out?!

Just might, after the 77 stuff of course.

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Well I see that everyone is bright and cheery today listening to their new boots. . bought or otherwise. .:) I have said that I own lots of silvers.  And I also have every show taken from the internet.  The music industry was in fact torn down because of music sharing no doubt.  This is a 20 year old argument that got Lars crucified back in the day.  Unfortunately music isnt what it was and it's all about that one big single and 15 producers on the tracks.  I can speak for the few that when priced fairly people do buy!  You come out the gates wanting someones whole check for a half a show, no Plantations, and single gorging ($60 a single) you are asking for trouble.  EV is not going about this in the right way. Make them affordable and people will buy! It's not like file sharing just started so why is EV having the problem now?  Bad management and strategy. . plain and simple.    

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1 hour ago, Bozoso73 said:

Well I see that everyone is bright and cheery today listening to their new boots. . bought or otherwise. .:) I have said that I own lots of silvers.  And I also have every show taken from the internet.  The music industry was in fact torn down because of music sharing no doubt.  This is a 20 year old argument that got Lars crucified back in the day.  Unfortunately music isnt what it was and it's all about that one big single and 15 producers on the tracks.  I can speak for the few that when priced fairly people do buy!  You come out the gates wanting someones whole check for a half a show, no Plantations, and single gorging ($60 a single) you are asking for trouble.  EV is not going about this in the right way. Make them affordable and people will buy! It's not like file sharing just started so why is EV having the problem now?  Bad management and strategy. . plain and simple.    

Seriously. Have these guys been in a coma for the last 18 years. It's hard enough making money on a legitimately released product. What makes some bootleggers think they're special? If they actually figure out how to get people to stop pirating their shit, they should let the rest of the music industry know. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

Edited by Frawls

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1 hour ago, Strider said:

We hear the phrase "lots of money/$$$" thrown around but how much are EVSD, Moonchild, Wendy, Eat a Peach, and other labels actually paying for these tapes?

I have never seen a verifiable figure published and to my knowledge I don't recall any one of these tape hoarders coming public with the amount of money they received for one of their tapes.

I mean, are we talking low four-figures or high four-figures? Is it as high as five-figures? I doubt it would be as much as six-figures but until someone comes clean, who knows?

In the 1990s $1000 (plus several free copies) for an uncirculated Led Zeppelin tape was about as good as it gets.   Fact.

I imagine for a soundboard it would be more like $5000-$10000.   But not any higher

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2 minutes ago, Sticks of Fire said:

In the 1990s $1000 (plus several free copies) for an uncirculated Led Zeppelin tape was about as good as it gets.   Fact.

I imagine for a soundboard it would be more like $5000-$10000.   But not any higher

Thanks for the info, Sticks of Fire.

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3 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

One only has to ask; Are they turning a profit? If not, then they're a poorly managed business. If they're paying more for the sources than they can get out of them, then that's bad negotiating. There will always be leeches, but putting prices on physical copies so high that even the people interested in them can't afford them is plain stupid. You lose both sides that way. Putting a disclaimer that says "please stop" isn't gonna do shit.

Yes, it does a shit because they have to sell out the entire run to recover capital spent on tape and get some profits.

Are you a child or what? Even a teenager can understand that kind of things.

Edited by zepster1979

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11 minutes ago, zepster1979 said:

Yes, it does a shit because they have to sell out the entire run to recover capital spent on tape and get some profits.

Are you a child or what? Even a teenager can understand that kind of things.

Pre-orders are a real thing. Hell, even a "GoFundMe" account that required a minimum amount to be reached to release a sound board would easily be a better option. Even a teenager business can understand that kind of things.

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3 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

One only has to ask; Are they turning a profit? If not, then they're a poorly managed business. If they're paying more for the sources than they can get out of them, then that's bad negotiating. There will always be leeches, but putting prices on physical copies so high that even the people interested in them can't afford them is plain stupid. You lose both sides that way. Putting a disclaimer that says "please stop" isn't gonna do shit. 

 

2 hours ago, Bozoso73 said:

Well I see that everyone is bright and cheery today listening to their new boots. . bought or otherwise. .:) I have said that I own lots of silvers.  And I also have every show taken from the internet.  The music industry was in fact torn down because of music sharing no doubt.  This is a 20 year old argument that got Lars crucified back in the day.  Unfortunately music isnt what it was and it's all about that one big single and 15 producers on the tracks.  I can speak for the few that when priced fairly people do buy!  You come out the gates wanting someones whole check for a half a show, no Plantations, and single gorging ($60 a single) you are asking for trouble.  EV is not going about this in the right way. Make them affordable and people will buy! It's not like file sharing just started so why is EV having the problem now?  Bad management and strategy. . plain and simple.     

Ah, Jesus, how could I have been so blind! Thanks for enlightenment. I summarise: EV is a poorly managed business, they fail to negotiate a good price for the source tape, and of course their prices are ridiculous high, right?

Let me ask you two things: What price you would consider to be fair for a complete 929 3 CD set? Please don´t say $20-$30, Mr Gibsonfan 159. Think, the tape owner has to be paid, and he knows what special tape he offers- we are not speaking of an uneven 77 performance, taped with the micro in someones arse.

And once again: What is if EV couldn´t afford to buy & release any new material due to low sales, their fault alone? Who would provide us with new material, do you care about this?

 

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6 minutes ago, Autumn Moon said:

What price you would consider to be fair for a complete 929 3 CD set?

What would you pay?

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9 minutes ago, Bozoso73 said:

What would you pay?

I have paid and ordered the Geisha box already, but haven´t got it yet.

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4 minutes ago, Autumn Moon said:

I have paid and ordered the Geisha box already, but haven´t got it yet.

When you get it, would you mind uploading and giving me a free download link? Thanks bro.

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33 minutes ago, Bozoso73 said:

What would you pay?

I think $150-$200 is a fair price....but I would have to know it was the complete show, and that more wouldn’t be trickled out. I think if they priced it at this level, they would have a LOT more customers. Me, for one.

I think it would be a more profitable venture for them if they priced in this way. Even if they paid $10,000 for the tape, they would only need to sell 50 to recoup their investment. Then it’s all profit. 

They could charge more for people that want fancy box sets. More profit.

Undoubtedly, torrenting will ultimately kill the release of bootlegs. But if you can’t pay what they are charging.....

i just think they need to meet the fans halfway with their pricing strategy. 

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51 minutes ago, Bozoso73 said:

What would you pay?

For a complete set and quality packaging, I'd pay up to $70. And that had better include a download link as well. It's got to be competitive after all, not some out of reach price that's gonna make me say "Screw that, I'll just download it". The only thing you're really paying for is the packaging.

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12 minutes ago, goldenretreiver157 said:

how do you download files on dime

🙄

1 hour ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Thanks bro.

LOL

 

33 minutes ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I'd pay up to $70.

 For a great one. . I bought Snow Jobs for $70 and its killer. . 3 colored silvers in a tri-fold. . Why not stick to that style? Cant tell me that wasn't profitable.

 

53 minutes ago, Xolo1974 said:

I think $150-$200 is a fair price.

How many are you gonna have if they were all that price? That seems a little steep for me. . 

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Guys - if somebody please please could give me a link to the three source mix that is out there I'd really appreciate it. I am unable to access Dime at the moment.

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10 minutes ago, Bozoso73 said:

How many are you gonna have if they were all that price? That seems a little steep for me. .

Just the best ones I guess - 10 to 15 of em.....which is pretty much what i have in my old vinyl collection. 

Yeah sure, it's not cheap....but given how it is sourced i would expect to pay a premium....just not a ridiculously out of reach premium that i have no chance of paying....particularly when i know the rest of the show will be trickled out....and it doesn't even include stuff previously released (Friends and STH). 

Cheers

 

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Posted (edited)

I have way more questions than answers but it seems to me that there are a lot of emotions/feelings, and very little facts going around in this conversation. So how do we find out the facts?? They're bootleggers! Their not going to divulge their methods, sources, prices paid etc. 

Here's my 2 cents. I'm somewhere in the middle of the battle field. I cannot and will not drop hundreds of $ on a title, but thats me. I buy silvers occasionally if its a favorite show and a good release with nice packaging. I try not to pay more than $150 but thats because I am not a collector type who has a budget for whatever their passion is... I'm a musician with no disposable income and plenty of debt and kids tuition to pay. The collecting game is too rich for my blood.   If someone who values having the silvers the packaging and believes in supporting the makers of boots then, fine...I suppose their putting their money where their mouth is. I do download ,  but I have also shared silvers that I bought back in the day on torrent sites , and I have also contributed to some remasters ( not much other than some tips on sound ) but I have shared a couple things ( low gen sources /clean vinyl)  that I know for a fact were ripped and burned onto silvers and put out (by at least 2 labels) . I don't really object to it as long as the prices are fair considering the source.  You're not just paying for packaging, there is time and expertise involved in creating the artwork, rendering the audio - even downloading and EQ'ing,...but especially if its from a tape or other source-  then pressing to silvers...although that should be a much cheaper release when its done that way. I've seen and heard plenty of boots that were simply ripped off -/dime/ traders den torrents... , and then pressed and packaged for over $100. Thats fucking lame and opportunistic. They should be no more than $50 tops for a 3 disc set if thats the case.  You're paying for the convenience of not having to do all that yourself. My opinion is that its pretty lame to profit off what is freely shared on torrent sites , but it is of value to some people to not have to figure out all that torrent download/files shit .  (Hence, Moonchild...which are priced appropriately I guess  ) 

Now , if its a proprietary source , like many of these EV board tapes allegedly are, then they paid something for them ( which may be considerably more than  $10 K by the way) and they want to recoup and profit on their investment.  In which case its totally reasonable that a nicely packaged set from a hitherto unheard tape source should be more expensive. However , in this case ...putting out an incomplete release , and admonishing people for sharing is some very jive shit and is likely going to lose them followers, not attract. I would buy this release if it were priced somewhere under $200 and included every available bit from the tape. But this is fucking lame. No Stairway?? Why?? Maybe if we had some facts, we could understand better whats at play here. Maybe they paid $100,000 for that tape, maybe $500,000...or maybe $10,000. Who knows. Also, it used to be other labels debuted new sources. Is EV the only organization that has a monopoly on these...with a direct line to them? Hmmm?? Remember Black Dog...TDOLZ...all these other guys who dropped new stuff. Seems like EV has a monopoly on the soundboards. 

Edited by porgie66

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1 minute ago, Xolo1974 said:

Just the best ones I guess - 10 to 15 of em.....which is pretty much what i have in my old vinyl collection. 

Yeah sure, it's not cheap....but given how it is sourced i would expect to pay a premium....just not a ridiculously out of reach premium that i have no chance of paying....particularly when i know the rest of the show will be trickled out....and it doesn't even include stuff previously released (Friends and STH). 

Cheers

 

See what I mean though?  Too many variables.  They want too much money for a half a show!  Not putting the other singles in with the show. . The leaflet telling the guy to fuck off. . lol  I enjoyed it last night when I got it on the internet but I probably wont listen too many more times.  No Plantations and hacked to death. . ehh

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3 minutes ago, Bozoso73 said:

See what I mean though?  Too many variables.  They want too much money for a half a show!  Not putting the other singles in with the show. . The leaflet telling the guy to fuck off. . lol  I enjoyed it last night when I got it on the internet but I probably wont listen too many more times.  No Plantations and hacked to death. . ehh

Exactly. It s good for a laugh at that comment. At least these pirates are pretty entertaining characters.

Maybe they'll wait for a complete fan merge,  download it, press it and package it and sell it for $400 a pop.

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If I had the chance to buy a significant Led Zeppelin soundboard master tape (Say, 6/21) that had never been released, I'd drop 10k for it easily. I'm not rich either, but to me, that would be an invaluable thing to have and making a profit would be the last thing I'd worry about. Though I'd probably release 2 second samples on here just to troll everyone.

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