porgie66 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 18 hours ago, porgie66 said: Oh how I wish we could have a complete video of the concert from just that camera angle. I fucking hate all the chopped up close ups, and out of sync editing. But that's the movie. To clarify, I mean the angle from out in the audience which shows the whole band on stage. Of course nothing can be done about changing anything in the movie, but what I would love to see is an alternate video release, maybe "TSRTS - From A Different Angle" , which would show us alternate view points with correctly synced audio....even for just a few songs since there are so many gaps...or at least make them as complete as posible by using other footage to fill gaps. Now that would be something to get excited about with this project, and the fans would love it. But that ain't gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Hermit Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 If anything worthwhile could have been done with this new reissue, giving the movie itself a brand new 4K transfer from the original 35mm and 16mm camera negatives would have made it a first-day purchase for me... the 2007 Blu-ray looks good but not nearly as good as it could have been even then; clearly it was remastered but not to the extent as the live material on 2003's DVD, which all looked utterly immaculate (including the MSG '73 footage which itself was ported over to the 2007 release and ironically looks better than the main feature!). Had that happened, and the original 1976 album been given a spanking new 24/96 remaster, I'd be on this new release like flies on poop, alas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rover Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 4 hours ago, The Old Hermit said: Whilst all tracks were (more or less) filmed, there were numerous gaps throughout as I stated (cameraman reloading film, particular angle not covered, etc) that made for holes in proper editing coverage and which necessitated the re-shoots 13 months later... and like it or not, the 'fantasy' sequences are part and parcel of the movie, for better or worse, we don't always get what we would like in life, so you're stuck with 'em!!! When they filmed the MSG concerts, I'm sure the video team was instructed to film ALL of each song, and then later they would figure out what parts of the songs filmed would not be used and instead would be over-layed with the filmed fantasy sequences. Your petulant response does not add to the discussion. I have every right to ask about the whereabouts of the footage not used, and to make a request to see it included a future release, as a fan viewing option. I could watch the whole concert without ANY of the fantasy sequences. It's just a rock concert, after all. The fantasy sequences though are a real nice "home movie" part of the film... glad they included that (for you), but they're nothing cinematically special on their own, unless you're under the influence, I suppose. But, I can watch and enjoy a Led Zeppelin concert performance straight. If you have to be "under the influence" to be wowed by something, then that something is not that special to begin with, imo. Hence, most of the fantasy sequences, imo. You've kinda missed my point. But carry on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rover Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, porgie66 said: Oh how I wish we could have a complete video of the concert from just that camera angle. I fucking hate all the chopped up close ups, and out of sync editing. But that's the movie. To clarify, I mean the angle from out in the audience which shows the whole band on stage. Of course nothing can be done about changing anything in the movie, but what I would love to see is an alternate video release, maybe "TSRTS - From A Different Angle" , which would show us alternate view points with correctly synced audio....even for just a few songs since there are so many gaps...or at least make them as complete as possible by using other footage to fill gaps. Now that would be something to get excited about with this project, and the fans would love it. But that ain't gonna happen. I agree with that completely. The fantasy sequences and all of the video stunts and tricks, were a nice idea, I suppose, 45 years ago... but now, in 2018, I just want to see Led Zeppelin jamming in concert, without split images, and the belly-button, and nasal hair shots. The "whole band on the stage" shot would be perfectly acceptable to me. Then, I get to watch who and what I want when I want....Just as if I was there in person, on the floor, experiencing the concert. WHAT A CONCEPT !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porgie66 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, The Rover said: I agree with that completely. The fantasy sequences and all of the video stunts and tricks, were a nice idea, I suppose, 45 years ago... but now, in 2018, I just want to see Led Zeppelin jamming in concert, without split images, and the belly-button, and nasal hair shots. The "whole band on the stage" shot would be perfectly acceptable to me. Then, I get to watch who and what I want when I want....Just as if I was there in person, on the floor, experiencing the concert. WHAT A CONCEPT !!!! Exactly. If you're a die hard fan, of which in Zepdom there are multitudes, then this is what you really want. We have all seen the film umpteen times and the last go around in 2007 was fine. Maybe there are legal issues that would be too restrictive or $$$ to take alternate footage and make another few songs or even whole concert film from the original footage. The editing of the songs that were not originally in the movie like Celebration Day, OTHAFA, Misty , The Ocean are pretty lame IMO. Terrible super quick cut editing, it's so jarring you can't focus on one shot for more than a second or two before the angle shifts. Images of Bonzo playing Moby Dick in the middle of another song. When they pieced together those songs which were not included in the original film they almost did worse than the original film edit!! I can't imagine they didn't shoot enough footage to be able use mostly the longer wide angle shot from in front of the stage, and then splice in bits from other Song. 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Hermit Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, The Rover said: When they filmed the MSG concerts, I'm sure the video team was instructed to film ALL of each song, and then later they would figure out what parts of the songs filmed would not be used and instead would be over-layed with the filmed fantasy sequences. Your petulant response does not add to the discussion. I have every right to ask about the whereabouts of the footage not used, and to make a request to see it included a future release, as a fan viewing option. I could watch the whole concert without ANY of the fantasy sequences. It's just a rock concert, after all. The fantasy sequences though are a real nice "home movie" part of the film... glad they included that (for you), but they're nothing cinematically special on their own, unless you're under the influence, I suppose. But, I can watch and enjoy a Led Zeppelin concert performance straight. If you have to be "under the influence" to be wowed by something, then that something is not that special to begin with, imo. Hence, most of the fantasy sequences, imo. You've kinda missed my point. But carry on... There was nothing petulant about my response; I simply stated the fact that like the fantasy sequences or not, an entire film re-edit of the MSG '73 set sans aforementioned sequences is not going to happen... period... so wishing for such is an exercise in futility when Jimmy Page, upon realizing back in 2006 that he couldn't do just what you are hoping for (and I have no doubt that's exactly what he would have done had legal barriers not prevented him from doing so), pretty much lost interest in the TSRTS remaster/reissue project - according to Kevin Shirley, he only popped into the studio a few times during the remixing process, leaving it largely to Robert Plant's supervision, and it's also obvious he didn't care that much for the remastering of the movie, judging by it's picture quality relative to 2003's DVD release - so he isn't going to do a u-turn, take precious time, money, and effort and spend months in an editing suite compiling a whole 'alternative' movie at this late stage... that was my point, and I stand by it, but sincerest and humblest apologies if you were offended. I'm frankly glad Jimmy wasn't able to re-edit the film in the mid-2000's... we've seen from both Celebration Day and the MSG '73 footage included on both DVD and the 2007 TSRTS DVD/Blu-ray reissue supplemental extras section that he clearly likes the rapid-fire editing style and will do that when given the chance... the 1976 theatrical cut certainly has flaws, but it's an established part of the historical record and should be left intact... just a pity he wasn't also prevented from altering the original accompanying 'soundtrack' album too. One last thing; I stand corrected on the 1977 program included in the upcoming Super Deluxe box set... it's a program for the movie's debut in Japan in '77 not a tour that never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IpMan Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 6 hours ago, The Old Hermit said: Whilst all tracks were (more or less) filmed, there were numerous gaps throughout as I stated (cameraman reloading film, particular angle not covered, etc) that made for holes in proper editing coverage and which necessitated the re-shoots 13 months later... and like it or not, the 'fantasy' sequences are part and parcel of the movie, for better or worse, we don't always get what we would like in life, so you're stuck with 'em!!! This is a golden opportunity missed. What the boys should do is take all the fantasy sequences out of TSRTS movie and replace them with either still shots of the band performing live, synch them with other video, 8mm, whatever live footage of them performing the same songs during different tours, or a combo of both. Kinda like what they did with Immigrant Song from the Australia gig in 72' on the DVD. Then add a bonus video commentary of the boys listening to the soundtrack and giving opinions on the songs, what they liked, did not like, inspirations for songs, looking back vs. what they thought at the time, etc. That could call it Does the Song Remain the Same? They could release that in tandem with a true full live show from either one of the Three Rivers or MSG shows which were recorded for TSRTS. If they did that the punters would be lined up for blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IpMan Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 To address a question above, the fantasy sequences were deemed necessary, as well as the Shep footage due to gaps in filming. Not simply because of changing film rolls etc. but to be quite blunt, the film crew was unprofessional, uncoordinated, and stoned out of their fucking gourds. They simply did not take this assignment seriously but instead took the opportunity to party like rock stars and bang groupies. That is the reason plain and simple. When Scorsese did The Last Waltz two years later in 75' he originally had the same problem with the crew before the filming however unlike Clifton et al, he recognized what was happening and put a stop to it right quick. Grant and Co. were not filmmakers and had no clue what to do or who to hire and to be perfectly honest I am surprised it turned out as good as it did under the circumstance. Look at every rock concert pre-Last Waltz coordinated and done by the bands management themselves and you have the same shit as TSRTS. Woodstock is a perfect example, what a shitshow as far as filming. Then look at the concerts filmed by professional filmmakers hired by actual film producers. Prime example would be Elvis's 68' comeback special. Perfect, absolutely brilliant, however the reason this happened was because Elvis was in film, was a film star, and his people knew exactly who to hire for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummingbird69 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 42 minutes ago, The Old Hermit said: One last thing; I stand corrected on the 1977 program included in the upcoming Super Deluxe box set... it's a program for the movie's debut in Japan in '77 not a tour that never happened. 1 Ha! When I read your post I was definitely perplexed and wanted to say something but because I didn't buy the set I decided against it. I'm glad I didn't and that it's been sorted because I have been wondering about your statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Only Way To Fly Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 I often wonder how the film would have turned out if the band hired a team like the Maysles Brothers and shot it just like they did in Gimme Shelter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rover Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 12 hours ago, The Old Hermit said: There was nothing petulant about my response; I simply stated the fact that like the fantasy sequences or not, an entire film re-edit of the MSG '73 set sans aforementioned sequences is not going to happen... period... so wishing for such is an exercise in futility when Jimmy Page, upon realizing back in 2006 that he couldn't do just what you are hoping for (and I have no doubt that's exactly what he would have done had legal barriers not prevented him from doing so), pretty much lost interest in the TSRTS remaster/reissue project - according to Kevin Shirley, he only popped into the studio a few times during the remixing process, leaving it largely to Robert Plant's supervision, and it's also obvious he didn't care that much for the remastering of the movie, judging by it's picture quality relative to 2003's DVD release - so he isn't going to do a u-turn, take precious time, money, and effort and spend months in an editing suite compiling a whole 'alternative' movie at this late stage... that was my point, and I stand by it, but sincerest and humblest apologies if you were offended. Really... I was never specifically suggested to do away with the fantasy sequences. So please, come down off your high horse for a minute.. Please don't try to shut someone down for an argument that they didn't make!! Do you even know what an optional view is in the DVD/Blu-ray format??? Go back and re-read my original post about this matter. I don't know how you have no doubt about what Jimmy's thoughts and intentions were in 2006 about this. I certainly don't. As for time being precious, and money costs... we're talking about Zeppelin's legacy here, and time is running out for Jimmy to give us more live footage if it is anywhere out there to be had. RAH, and the video screen footage of Knebworth and Earl's Court is not enough quality concert footage. For many reasons, Zeppelin has come up short of quality live concert footage for most of their tenure. I speak from someone that was privileged to have seen them live on 5 different tours. And I can say, the more you see them live, the more you want. And live footage, that's not all dicked up is something I'll never stop wanting to be uncoverd and released. What's futile, is for to think you're going to change my mind by your heavy-handed reasoning and pontificating. That's about all I wanted to say Old Hermit. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepfan2001 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 I did see some snips of this movie on YouTube some years ago, but only a few minutes worth. It started with Robert Plant on the street mingling with fans and then he was on a beach with a sword and there was a live song footage of the band. That was what I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rm2551 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 Movies are released on DVD, then inevitably a "Collectors Edition, Director's Cut, Special Edition" or whatever is release with scenes that didn't make the original movie, commentary, alternate ending, other such changes. Why Can't TSRTS get a "Complete Edition" release? I keep hearing how the movie itself can't be changed for legal reasons. What bloody legal reasons??? Who owns the rights, and why would they be against change if it means a really popular "Special Edition" release that sells well. It doesn't add up. THEY WOULD PROFIT!!!! I cannot understand how it is legally impossible to make any changes. If someone keeps holding out because they want a huge cut and Jimmy doesn't agree, fair enough, but is that whats going on? As if the content of the movie is that sacred. No changes possible - pfffft. A DVD where you get to choose angles and fantasy sequences or live action would be incredible, but does more film actually exist anywhere? Was the Led Zeppelin DVD release the last word for '73 film that was on the shelf and usable? I would think so. Why would it not already be released if great unreleased footage is indeed gathering dust somewhere? I think TSRTS is what it is and forever will be. If there was a way for Jimmy to mix things up a bit, cut a different movie, it would have been done by now. Unless this new release blows away everyone with extra's that are the songs with pure shots of the band playing, sadly, it's over. This will be the last TSRTS to hit shelves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadIrishman Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Why can’t we get RAH live or the Denmark radio performance. I’m sick and tired of having to watch great unreleased content on YouTube. This is worst Led Zeppelin 50th anniversary ever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rm2551 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 1 hour ago, TheMadIrishman said: Why can’t we get RAH live or the Denmark radio performance. I’m sick and tired of having to watch great unreleased content on YouTube. This is worst Led Zeppelin 50th anniversary ever... The anniversary doesn't start until September so hold on you mad Irishman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTM Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 8 hours ago, TheMadIrishman said: Why can’t we get RAH live or the Denmark radio performance. I’m sick and tired of having to watch great unreleased content on YouTube. This is worst Led Zeppelin 50th anniversary ever... I take it you don't have DVD then..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Hermit Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 On 7/1/2018 at 1:30 PM, rm2551 said: This will be the last TSRTS to hit shelves. I'm still hoping for a vinyl re-release of the original 1976 album some day... maybe even a limited Record Store Day release or something... c'mon Jimmy, the vinyl masters are already done; by Bernie Grundman back in the early 2000's for the Classic Records reissue... and it sounded amazing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDave Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 On 7/1/2018 at 9:16 PM, TheMadIrishman said: Why can’t we get RAH live or the Denmark radio performance. I’m sick and tired of having to watch great unreleased content on YouTube. This is worst Led Zeppelin 50th anniversary ever... And the only Led Zeppelin 50th anniversary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellipe Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I expect Jimmy Page to release TSRS as the original 1976 album with No Quarter version 12: 30min, Whole Lotta Love 14: 24min without the movie error in the 1: 31min, Dazed and Confused of 26: 53min album of 1976 and finally Black Dog with 5: 29min ... complete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpat Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 On 6/21/2018 at 9:36 PM, tmtomh said: Folks, it's definitely just a remaster of the 2007 version - so no original No Quarter, no restored Crunge section in Whole Lotta Love, and no superior guitar solo in Celebration Day. MOST UNFORTUNATE, musically. Glad I still have my 1976 vinyl and their first CD issue (late 1980s?) of TSRTS containing the far superior "Celebration Day" version with the great guitar solo -- which hasn't seen the light of day since anywhere I know, not even YouTube. I had made my own "No Quarter" using parts from that same original CD and the 2007 re-master. If a dolt like myself can do that, I sure Mr. Page is more than capable to do the same -- but maybe it's a copyright thing with the film studio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigante Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 On 7/1/2018 at 11:30 AM, rm2551 said: I keep hearing how the movie itself can't be changed for legal reasons. What bloody legal reasons??? Probably due to past legal action taken by the Directors' Guild of America, when films have been edited without the copyright-holder's consent. I guess the copyright-holder of TSRTS wasn't up for a new edit and Jimmy didn't want the hassle/expense of fighting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jukkin Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I've bemoaned the lack of official live releases over the years and have been stumped as to why there's been only one. Reading yesterday about why it took so long for a Bad Company live album (from the Swan Song days) to be released, it's apparently because Peter Grant didn't like live albums. The only official Zeppelin live album from Grant's time is a film soundtrack. The intent to create separate live releases was never there so I would guess that's why there's been so few since, no live shows were being recorded for prosperity in those days so now, creating something good enough for official release (to Jimmy's standards), may just seem like too much hard work. Damn shame. PS: Royal Albert Hall 1970 was released but as every Zeppelin fan knows, was supposed to be a live film but the footage was deemed too dark to use. Again, no intent for a live album just a live film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckman Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Jukkin said: I've bemoaned the lack of official live releases over the years and have been stumped as to why there's been only one. Reading yesterday about why it took so long for a Bad Company live album (from the Swan Song days) to be released, it's apparently because Peter Grant didn't like live albums. The only official Zeppelin live album from Grant's time is a film soundtrack. The intent to create separate live releases was never there so I would guess that's why there's been so few since, no live shows were being recorded for prosperity in those days so now, creating something good enough for official release (to Jimmy's standards), may just seem like too much hard work. Damn shame. PS: Royal Albert Hall 1970 was released but as every Zeppelin fan knows, was supposed to be a live film but the footage was deemed too dark to use. Again, no intent for a live album just a live film. I don't know about Peter Grant's negative feelings on live albums, but Jimmy was quite proud of the Zep live heritage as he would have loved to release a chronological live anthology. Just like for the Knebworth and Earl's Court gigs, he rented a mobile unit for the Royal Albert Hall show(the Pye mobile which was also used a few weeks later for the Who's Live at Leeds/Hull). RAH was filmed -documentary style- on 16mm and was IMHO never intended to be a feature length concert movie. Only as part of a documentary. The Earl's court footage's sole purpose was to be used on the screens during the show. Still, Jimmy wheeled out the 16 track machines to capture the shows on audio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rm2551 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 2 hours ago, duckman said: I don't know about Peter Grant's negative feelings on live albums, but Jimmy was quite proud of the Zep live heritage as he would have loved to release a chronological live anthology. Just like for the Knebworth and Earl's Court gigs, he rented a mobile unit for the Royal Albert Hall show(the Pye mobile which was also used a few weeks later for the Who's Live at Leeds/Hull). RAH was filmed -documentary style- on 16mm and was IMHO never intended to be a feature length concert movie. Only as part of a documentary. The Earl's court footage's sole purpose was to be used on the screens during the show. Still, Jimmy wheeled out the 16 track machines to capture the shows on audio. And just as well he did. It is unmatched. It represents the band perfectly for the early years. Unparalleled musicianship and convergence of their supreme talents. The confidence and absolute kick-ass delivery of great material is unreal. While it is not their "peak" in any real sense (they got better, wrote more fantastic pieces, played some shows that were next, next level), for me it is the best presentation of Led Zeppelin there ever will be - except when the extended stand alone RAH release is done of course. (well, one can dream) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 7 hours ago, duckman said: I don't know about Peter Grant's negative feelings on live albums, but Jimmy was quite proud of the Zep live heritage as he would have loved to release a chronological live anthology. Just like for the Knebworth and Earl's Court gigs, he rented a mobile unit for the Royal Albert Hall show(the Pye mobile which was also used a few weeks later for the Who's Live at Leeds/Hull). RAH was filmed -documentary style- on 16mm and was IMHO never intended to be a feature length concert movie. Only as part of a documentary. The Earl's court footage's sole purpose was to be used on the screens during the show. Still, Jimmy wheeled out the 16 track machines to capture the shows on audio. It's very obvious that if Jimmy wanted to release that live set he had planned, he would of. Peter would never get in the way of anything in a creative capacity. It's pretty apparent it was Robert who was embarrassed by the sound of them live and has never wanted it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.