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Xolo1974

Empress Valley Warning

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Hello all. 

I’ve been wondering. Ordinarily, recently released boots have been fairly easy to come by on the net. However, since EV spat the dummy after the release of the Seattle 75 gig (apparently they were pissed off it appeared on torrent sites so quickly), they have become more difficult to acquire e.g I have not been able to get a copy of Friends from Osaka 71.

My question is, are purchasers heeding the warnings of EV? (I.e if this stuff gets leaked onto the net, they won’t release any more of it). 

Dont get me wrong, if people buy this stuff at a premium, I have no problem with them keeping it close to their chest. I’ve always been very grateful for what I have received. I’m just curious about the noticeable change in availability on recent releases. 

Appreciate thoughts/healthy and respectful debate. 

Cheers

Xolo1974

 

 

 

 

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I would guess that there may be some truth to that. That being said, EV are still putting out boxset after boxset of things, including the Japan 1972 box, so I would also guess that we might still see a 75 board or some more Japan 1971 sooner than later. They are in it to make money after all, right?

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8 hours ago, Xolo1974 said:

Hello all. 

I’ve been wondering. Ordinarily, recently released boots have been fairly easy to come by on the net. However, since EV spat the dummy after the release of the Seattle 75 gig (apparently they were pissed off it appeared on torrent sites so quickly), they have become more difficult to acquire e.g I have not been able to get a copy of Friends from Osaka 71.

My question is, are purchasers heeding the warnings of EV? (I.e if this stuff gets leaked onto the net, they won’t release any more of it). 

Dont get me wrong, if people buy this stuff at a premium, I have no problem with them keeping it close to their chest. I’ve always been very grateful for what I have received. I’m just curious about the noticeable change in availability on recent releases. 

Appreciate thoughts/healthy and respectful debate. 

Cheers

Xolo1974

 What specific warning are you referring to? EV essentially make their money up front by selling out the first 200 or so copies. Once it's released they have no control over the content hitting torrent sites and they know that.

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10 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said:

A bigger issue:  how exactly does one spit a dummy?

As in “you spit the dummy out” in defiance and/or petulance. Obviously an English and Aussie expression. Lost on you yancs 😀

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14 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

 What specific warning are you referring to? EV essentially make their money up front by selling out the first 200 or so copies. Once it's released they have no control over the content hitting torrent sites and they know that.

Agree with you Steve. But apparently the Seattle release included some sort of warning in the 200 releases....if you torrent we may not be able to release any more shows etc 

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2 hours ago, Xolo1974 said:

Agree with you Steve. But apparently the Seattle release included some sort of warning in the 200 releases....if you torrent we may not be able to release any more shows etc 

Oh, I see. Well, they must realize they have no control over that, merely a choice. Either they sell 200 copies of a title at x amount of dollars and make x amount of profit or stop releasing titles and make nothing. Frankly, I'm surprised that all 200 of any given release still sells out. They're just not worth it to me.   

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Who cares, what a bootleg company says or post. there is over 318 bootlegs circulating and most of them are crap. Led Zeppelin is not making money off these bootlegs, so why care what empress valley says.  

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16 hours ago, strombringer101 said:

Who cares, what a bootleg company says or post. there is over 318 bootlegs circulating and most of them are crap. Led Zeppelin is not making money off these bootlegs, so why care what empress valley says.  

For what it's worth, selling and buying bootlegs is not illegal in Japan. Apparently empress valley aquired these ' soundboard revolution' tapes for a hefty price tag. Before the decline of the CD market bootleg production was a very lucrative business. Labels such as Eelgrass, godfather/Eat a Peach and Scorpio are eating a hefty part of their profits. Not to mention the increasingly bigger  flock of fans who rely on downloads. It has been said before on this forum, EV must be quite desperate to beg their customers not to upload, share and remaster their 'precious' products. 

 

 

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Torrents killed the music. People who are downloading, mostly just even did not listen to it again. It may explain why the music industry is dead these days. Add the fact today's kids aren't really interested in music at all, and we got the fall and decline of Music Empire LOL

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31 minutes ago, zepster1979 said:

Torrents killed the music. People who are downloading, mostly just even did not listen to it again. It may explain why the music industry is dead these days. Add the fact today's kids aren't really interested in music at all, and we got the fall and decline of Music Empire LOL

Zepster has it spot on.

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3 hours ago, zepster1979 said:

Torrents killed the music. People who are downloading, mostly just even did not listen to it again. It may explain why the music industry is dead these days. Add the fact today's kids aren't really interested in music at all, and we got the fall and decline of Music Empire LOL

Maybe it put the last nail in the coffin but "the music" was in trouble as soon as video came out.  Now most people don't have the patience to listen to anything they can't watch.  This took away the primary focus on LISTENING, which lead to a drop in demand for quality music.  Add to that all the cool entertainment we have these days, and the attitude of "Why should I pay for stuff that's free on the internet", and you just can't make any money playing actual music...

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59 minutes ago, chef free said:

Maybe it put the last nail in the coffin but "the music" was in trouble as soon as video came out.  Now most people don't have the patience to listen to anything they can't watch.  This took away the primary focus on LISTENING, which lead to a drop in demand for quality music.  Add to that all the cool entertainment we have these days, and the attitude of "Why should I pay for stuff that's free on the internet", and you just can't make any money playing actual music...

That's just not true. You just can't make big money any more. My kid is in a band, can have a decent sized recording budget and pay for the recording costs and more from Spotify. Anything from Apple is pure profit and it all acts as advertising to play live, where the decent income is to be found. A decent band, working smart can make a living purely from being musicians but they have to run it a lot like a small business.

My kid knows unless the band blows up big that the best paycheck is from licensing music to movies and commercials. Lots of luck involved there but same can be said for the music business in general.

This all brings it back full circle to the early '60's. None of the bands then thought of music as a career or a way to get rich. It was something fun to do while young. I'm okay with that, so is my kid. He's following his passion in life and able to do it full time.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, tyler19 said:

That's just not true. You just can't make big money any more. My kid is in a band, can have a decent sized recording budget and pay for the recording costs and more from Spotify. Anything from Apple is pure profit and it all acts as advertising to play live, where the decent income is to be found. A decent band, working smart can make a living purely from being musicians but they have to run it a lot like a small business.

My kid knows unless the band blows up big that the best paycheck is from licensing music to movies and commercials. Lots of luck involved there but same can be said for the music business in general.

This all brings it back full circle to the early '60's. None of the bands then thought of music as a career or a way to get rich. It was something fun to do while young. I'm okay with that, so is my kid. He's following his passion in life and able to do it full time.

I hear ya man, I've known lots people in bands since the '70's, they used to be able to play small venues and bars for a few bucks these days bars want you to play for free "for the exposure".  Plus no one buys media, bands used to tour to sell records, now it's the opposite, touring makes money but you have to be famous to sell tickets...

Edited by chef free

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On 6/25/2018 at 3:07 PM, Xolo1974 said:

I’ve been wondering. Ordinarily, recently released boots have been fairly easy to come by on the net. However, since EV spat the dummy after the release of the Seattle 75 gig (apparently they were pissed off it appeared on torrent sites so quickly), they have become more difficult to acquire e.g I have not been able to get a copy of Friends from Osaka 71.

No 929 Friends yet? Man, the tears are tripping me. Sorry, don`t want to be disrespectful, but this is way too funny.

On 6/25/2018 at 3:07 PM, Xolo1974 said:

My question is, are purchasers heeding the warnings of EV? (I.e if this stuff gets leaked onto the net, they won’t release any more of it). 

Dont get me wrong, if people buy this stuff at a premium, I have no problem with them keeping it close to their chest. I’ve always been very grateful for what I have received. I’m just curious about the noticeable change in availability on recent releases. 

Why all this EV & Co. bashing? Haven`t you ever thought about the bootleg business & its mechanisms? To get a boot released companies like EV have to track down the tape owners, convince them, negotiate the price & finally have to invest a lot (!) of money upfront. This is not managed by Father Christmas, and I haven`t heard about a crowdfunding project of torrent sites & downloaders yet. And then there are hopefully 200 fans who will buy the limited silvers, which are really expensive these days, due to a bigger number of fans who download & never pay a single $. Finally, I have been buying boots for 30 years, I am not a rich man & there were years I couldn`t afford to buy a single boot.

So, let´s do what we do best: I keep buying silvers & you keep downloading, with our heads held high, no whining!

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15 hours ago, tyler19 said:

That's just not true. You just can't make big money any more. My kid is in a band, can have a decent sized recording budget and pay for the recording costs and more from Spotify. Anything from Apple is pure profit and it all acts as advertising to play live, where the decent income is to be found. A decent band, working smart can make a living purely from being musicians but they have to run it a lot like a small business.

My kid knows unless the band blows up big that the best paycheck is from licensing music to movies and commercials. Lots of luck involved there but same can be said for the music business in general.

This all brings it back full circle to the early '60's. None of the bands then thought of music as a career or a way to get rich. It was something fun to do while young. I'm okay with that, so is my kid. He's following his passion in life and able to do it full time.

Very true. Back these days most of the kids who were playing in the bands didn't even think to get a serious contracts and earning a serious money. I remember a movie, was probably a TV serial, much focused on the US music scene of 50s and 60s, and at some point musicians from the Grateful Dead were asked by the film crew if their first album was cut due to demand of audience etc. They've said that it wasn't like that, in fact the Warner Brothers came out and push their balls to the walls and eventually lead to record and release it in 1967. They've also said it was too early for them to record and release as they have been really into an underground scene and nobody wanted to be a big star back then. They've been too naive and WB persuaded them much because they knew already that they can do a big biz from it (signing contracts with lots of underground bands due to large popularity throughout the audiences).

The moral is that most of these people weren't set up to get money from it until big companies came in and propose contracts. It was the start of killing the music. The biz and music aren't in the same league, at least for some of us. Few years later the hippie/underground scene was completely dead and people such the Grateful Dead were famous and traveled by private jets etc. I am not gonna blame them though, they got a luck to be famous and still played a good music at all. But it was the end of non-commercial aka no-money-oriented music.

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   King Crimson started touring again in 2014 with a 7 man lineup without a new album to promote. Right now they are touring with an 8 man lineup and still no new album in the stores. I wonder how much money they are making?  

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Before the internet I spent 1000s of dollars on expensive silver disc boots of Zep, Stones and Beatles from all over the world.  I've since downloaded the entire collection from the internet.  While I like having the original discs,  I sure would enjoy the money I spent more, lol.  That as it is,   I usually buy a EV silver only when it is something special like Seattle 75 as it feels more real to me to have something to hold.  

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4 hours ago, hummingbird69 said:

   King Crimson started touring again in 2014 with a 7 man lineup without a new album to promote. Right now they are touring with an 8 man lineup and still no new album in the stores. I wonder how much money they are making?  

Fripp and Co. probably aren't worried about money but they did make and release a couple of live albums of the tours.  I saw the last two tours and was quite impressed, they aren't just a nostalgia act!

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3 hours ago, chef free said:

Fripp and Co. probably aren't worried about money but they did make and release a couple of live albums of the tours.  I saw the last two tours and was quite impressed, they aren't just a nostalgia act!

 

 

 

I saw King Crimson in Boston last year, an incredible show of which I may or may not have a recording of. ;) Fripp has always had a huge problem with the music industry mostly regarding the ownership of the music produced. You might think he's sitting on a pile of cash but according to him, he doesn't make a whole lot from his time in King Crimson so he tours to sustain himself.  I could be wrong, but today's fans of KC are yesterdays fans with only a small portion of the whole being new young people.  DGM live is selling bootlegs from every tour and over last few years they have been releasing huge box sets for each of the original albums.  Prices are pretty high although there is a shitload of content in each but who's buying them? I couldn't find any sales figures but I don't think they're flying off the shelves which would be a shame because no matter what year you go too they were great.

Releasing a new album with all new music might help create new fans they need to keep going. Then again they are all pretty old now so maybe just play until you die?

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11 hours ago, hummingbird69 said:

   King Crimson started touring again in 2014 with a 7 man lineup without a new album to promote. Right now they are touring with an 8 man lineup and still no new album in the stores. I wonder how much money they are making?  

I saw them when they came through town. I am sure they're doing okay. A 5,000 person venue, sold out at $125-$175 at ticket. Even after costs and split 8 ways they are doing okay.

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On 6/28/2018 at 6:58 AM, Autumn Moon said:

No 929 Friends yet? Man, the tears are tripping me. Sorry, don`t want to be disrespectful, but this is way too funny.

Why all this EV & Co. bashing? Haven`t you ever thought about the bootleg business & its mechanisms? To get a boot released companies like EV have to track down the tape owners, convince them, negotiate the price & finally have to invest a lot (!) of money upfront. This is not managed by Father Christmas, and I haven`t heard about a crowdfunding project of torrent sites & downloaders yet. And then there are hopefully 200 fans who will buy the limited silvers, which are really expensive these days, due to a bigger number of fans who download & never pay a single $. Finally, I have been buying boots for 30 years, I am not a rich man & there were years I couldn`t afford to buy a single boot.

So, let´s do what we do best: I keep buying silvers & you keep downloading, with our heads held high, no whining!

Oh hi. Better get to spec savers mate. Or back to class to learn comprehension. Where was the whining? Where was the sense of entitlement? 

Oh, and while we’re at it...where did I bash EV? I stated facts. They did spit the dummy. 

I’ve bought boots before, just not recently. Is it a competition? If they put out 929 IN FULL I’ll be sorely tempted. But I’ll want to hear what it sounds like first

 

 

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On 6/30/2018 at 11:58 AM, Xolo1974 said:

Oh hi. Better get to spec savers mate. Or back to class to learn comprehension. Where was the whining? Where was the sense of entitlement? 

Oh, and while we’re at it...where did I bash EV? I stated facts. They did spit the dummy. 

I’ve bought boots before, just not recently. Is it a competition? If they put out 929 IN FULL I’ll be sorely tempted. But I’ll want to hear what it sounds like first

 

 

Hi, I´d like to apologize for offending you with some of my comments, for becoming personal. That wasn´t  smart, wasn´t polite- sorry for that.

Back on topic. About EV spat the dummy- Honestly, what kind of reaction did you expect from EV? I am not a fan of their Superdeluxe-Boxsets-policy either, but I can understand their point of view.

                          About 929, I just have the IS-single & I am convinced with its sound quality. I think you know the new versions of IS and STH, Friends will be with the same superior sound, I suppose so.

Finally, no, I don´t think it is a competition. I am happy with my bootleg collection, that´s it. If someone has 5 times as much, if someone has downloaded every boot ever released, congratulations! -what´s that to me?

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8 hours ago, Autumn Moon said:

Hi, I´d like to apologize for offending you with some of my comments, for becoming personal. That wasn´t  smart, wasn´t polite- sorry for that.

Back on topic. About EV spat the dummy- Honestly, what kind of reaction did you expect from EV? I am not a fan of their Superdeluxe-Boxsets-policy either, but I can understand their point of view.

                          About 929, I just have the IS-single & I am convinced with its sound quality. I think you know the new versions of IS and STH, Friends will be with the same superior sound, I suppose so.

Finally, no, I don´t think it is a competition. I am happy with my bootleg collection, that´s it. If someone has 5 times as much, if someone has downloaded every boot ever released, congratulations! -what´s that to me?

Lovely response mate and much appreciated. Thanks. I have the STH from that show in MP3 if you’d like it. It sounds great

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On 7/2/2018 at 8:36 AM, Xolo1974 said:

Lovely response mate and much appreciated. Thanks. I have the STH from that show in MP3 if you’d like it. It sounds great

Thanks for your kind offer. It may sound weird, but I don´t even want to hear another single release, that would "spoil" my anticipation for the hopefully complete release. IMO there will be no more single releases, as I am totally convinced of EV releasing 929 about september. Imagine, that would be he definite 50th anniversary release.

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