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confounded_bridge

1977 SHOWS RANKED INTO 3 CATEGORIES

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6 minutes ago, gibsonfan159 said:

"The only other thing that got loaded was something from a university that was done for a bit of a laugh, and it actually sounded too much of a laugh to actually wanna ever put that out and be measured up by it, because that was something that had a quite a few mistakes on it. We were playing numbers when we had just sorta recorded them and maybe played it for the first time and it was a lot to remember in the set. Consequently you’re gonna come unstuck a little bit. And it’s just something that will never see the light of day. That’s all there is. There’s just one other performance. Everything else is now out that we had live-wise."

Okay, he's talking about Southampton for the most part, but what is the "One other performance"?

My guess is Japan. 

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1977 can be a bit tough to listen to. Most SBs sound way too dry and flat (lifeless?) a fair few of the shows are only good, not great - or contain a mix anywhere from hard to listen to to great all within the one stretch of songs. Inconsistent I think is fair.

The Millard tapes are by far the best representation of 1977 both from a performance perspective and nice sound - albeit an AUD recording. But compare that to some of the almost official sounding quality of some '75 SB releases, I understand the view that '77 does not offer nearly as much.

Paganini, give the LTTE Collectors Edition a go through good headphones. It shows Zep has blasted off to a whole new level of intensity and drama. A level that was ridiculously epic, but not sustainable. PM me if you need a source.

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Let's be real here...1977 North American Tour   Best show is Pontiac just from the enormous vibe.

1977

Bonzo - overplayed very often especially in NQ and STH I think to mask Jimmy's poor soloing. 

His snare sound to me was off key quite often with Jimmy's guitar. He was looking heavy also. 

Also to me , physically , he played more with his wrists and that swing you see in the EC TUF video during Jimmy's soloing,  is lost. That movement around the toms with big arm  gestures,  which created space , was lost in 1977. He seems tight on the snare and I just think his physical condition altered his play. In the videos I see on YT , he seems lackluster at times. 

Bonzo - didn't like the snare tone. 1975 was a better tone for him . Overall he played better in 1975. More reserved and solos didn't bore.  It's simply called drugs man!!

Percy - carried the band in 1977. He was nasal during acoustic set and used no falsetto , but overall strong. 

Jonsey - NQ was way too long and didn't like the STH key tone. Other than tha, t he was stellar even with the new bass. 

Jimmy and Bonzo were a mess most of the time. It's easier to hide as a drummer than a guitar player. 

Robert knew he needed to be on his game or else the tour would have collapsed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Blaize86

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I'm surprised to see some people talk about how Bonham suffered some sort of decline or was a mess on this tour. I'm no drummer, but apart from San Diego and one or two of the Landover shows, I don't see it. In fact, I think he carried the band on this tour, even more so than Robert. He took mediocre performances like Houston or Seattle and almost made them must hears based on his playing alone. Sure, one could argue he was overplaying, perhaps to cover for Page, and maybe that's not their thing, but I LOVE it. I'm honestly blown away by his playing on this tour every single time I listen to it. The LA shows get a lot of the attention, but there's plenty of other worthy performances like Fort Worth, Cleveland (more so the 2nd show), Birmingham, and the NY shows, and a large part of that is due to Bonzo. 

Sure, I will agree Page wasn't at his peak on this tour, but there's only a few gigs from him that I would classify as disasters. And he still had great moments, they were just fewer and farther between.

I'm sorry, but I don't hear any evidence of a decline in Bonzo's playing ability. In fact, I'm agreement with a few other users: I think this was his greatest tour ever.

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6 hours ago, confounded_bridge said:

You  are  very  rude. And  your  comment  about  the  quality  of  the  shows  and  the  releases  is  the  stupidest  thing  I  have  ever  heard.

LOL, pot meet kettle.

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1 hour ago, Blaize86 said:

 Jimmy and Bonzo were a mess most of the time. It's easier to hide as a drummer than a guitar player. 

 

Absolutely nope. Jimmy played his leads sloppily, or at least in a non-precise manner, from the very beginning and still is regarded as one of the greats because you can still be creative playing sloppy guitar. You never hear of a sloppy drummer because they don't have jobs.

I don't know how anyone could compare 75 Bonham to 77. Apart from a few notable shows he was practically non-existent for 1975. He was "more reserved" alright, to the point of a drum machine. He may have had highs and lows in 77, but at least he played with some character. The setlist in 77 also allowed him to shine, with excellent drum tracks like NFBM and Achilles.

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On 8/13/2018 at 9:00 AM, TangerineDreamer said:

All I know is I saw LZ 3/1/77 in Baton Rouge, La and thought it was absolutely fantastic. Never seen anything like it before or since. C’mon! It’s Led Zeppelin! What’s not to like? 

I can imagine! There are many, many first-person accounts from folks like you who were fortunate enough to see Zep live in '77, and the consensus seems to be that, as flawed as the performances can sound on the tapes we have, the actual experience was much better and on a whole different level.

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22 minutes ago, tmtomh said:

I can imagine! There are many, many first-person accounts from folks like you who were fortunate enough to see Zep live in '77, and the consensus seems to be that, as flawed as the performances can sound on the tapes we have, the actual experience was much better and on a whole different level.

American audiences in the '70's were probably even more stoned than the band.  

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Yeah, the 1977 tour sucked. It sucked so bad that Led Zeppelin dominated Creem's 1977 reader's poll as never before. In fact, Creem awarded Led Zeppelin a special "Crushed Beer Can" award to go along with their haul of Boy Howdy! awards for dominating the poll. The poll results were published in the March 1978 issue.

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1 hour ago, Strider said:

Yeah, the 1977 tour sucked. It sucked so bad that Led Zeppelin dominated Creem's 1977 reader's poll as never before. In fact, Creem awarded Led Zeppelin a special "Crushed Beer Can" award to go along with their haul of Boy Howdy! awards for dominating the poll. The poll results were published in the March 1978 issue.

20180903_180632.thumb.jpg.85a5e5ac648e0af81a7d2f64ddae5ecd.jpg

20180903_181339.thumb.jpg.33b44dedda0b01b69c44488996d09b38.jpg20180903_180755.thumb.jpg.4a5db4198adf680e978436ba8a956244.jpg

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yeah i feel sorry for you Strider.....those terrible nights that you must have spent at the LA Forum

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Jeez I remember Creem and used to read it religiously. I was graduating at the time from Kiss to Led Zeppelin .

Just looking at the Creem photos , I remember every single one and every award list. !! Great job.

Just remember, in 1977 , Zep was picking up a younger fan base. Much younger. The days of John Lennon catching a Zep show in 1973 at MSG were gone. The fan base was less critical. It was all about the experience of just seeing the band in motion since they were still kinda mysterious to America. The music scene was changing and punk was making its headway. A lot of older fans were leaning in other directions ( to come back once agin in the future of course). Zep were picking up alot of Kiss fans who were seeing that band go to comic child like status. You can hear in the audience recordings the, audience was changing. So the fanfare of 1977 was more hysterical than actually detailed ( and rehearsed) music. I'm not saying 75 was that stellar but I just prefer the " scene" a bit more. The band regardless of Plant's condition seemed more focused. Jimmy wasn't always on the verge of a mistake, it seemed. 

All good though from different point of view. You know how us Zep heads are, we go through our bootleg years , favoring some for some time and discerning others and then favoring the one we once disliked. I'm in my 1977 mode now just trying to find that , besides LA, wonderful show. One as good as 1975 Montreal where I just don't think the rhythm section in 1977 even reached that peak. Page and Bonham are beasts!!  The last great Stairway solo. !!!Give a listen and compare to any 1977 shows with that stop and go staccato type playing Jimmy mustered up to disguise his lack of detailed picking which was falling by the wayside on that solo. 

He all good, lads!!!

 

Blaize 

NYC 

 

Also, as an afterthought, weren't Zep in the Creem readers poll voted " worst live  band " in some years at the same time voted "best". ???

Edited by Blaize86

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Was Creem even a legitimate music review or was it more like the Tiger Beat of the day? They've got Freddy Mercury at #5 in best vocalist. Or am I missing the sarcasm here?

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Haha it wasn't on the RS or even Hit Parader scale. It was Creem, Circus, Rock Scene, HP. With these polls ,the fans voted,and most were young. I'm might be wrong but pretty sure it was the fans. 

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2 hours ago, Blaize86 said:

Haha it wasn't on the RS or even Hit Parader scale. It was Creem, Circus, Rock Scene, HP. With these polls ,the fans voted,and most were young. I'm might be wrong but pretty sure it was the fans. 

So what, people voted for what they liked. Now if fans voted for best live act without even seeing them well, shame on them. However, those who did see them and enjoyed the show...good for them. The fact is, who cares and why? I think Taylor Swift sucks but if everyone else likes her and thinks she puts on a great show, what the hell do I know and most importantly, who cares.

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11 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Was Creem even a legitimate music review or was it more like the Tiger Beat of the day? They've got Freddy Mercury at #5 in best vocalist. Or am I missing the sarcasm here?

You must be young so I will forgive such an ignorant question. For nobody who lived in the 1970s would ever confuse America's Only Rock n Roll magazine with Tiger Beat.

Also, you do understand the concept of Reader Polls, don't you? It is the results of the readers sending in their ballots. It is not a decision made by the writers or editors of the magazine. Rolling Stone would do that...have the writers/editors poll and a separate reader poll. But CREEM left it all up to the readers.

CREEM was a monthly rock magazine started by two record store guys in Detroit in 1969, Barry Kramer and Tony Reay. It was named after Tony's favourite band, Cream. Dave Marsh and Lester Bangs were early writers, Lester joining in 1971 after leaving Rolling Stone. Patti Smith wrote for CREEM before becoming a musician herself.

Other writers during the magazine's heyday during the 1970s until about 1985-86: Richard Meltzer, Grail Marcus, Robert Christgau, Cameron Crowe, Billy Altman, Lisa Robinson, Jaan Uhelzski, Robot A. Hull, Rick Johnson, Susan Whitall, Nick Tosches, John Kordosh, Sylvie Simmons, Simon Frith, Dave DiMartino, Bill Holdship.

The magazine was humourous, self-deprecating, and irreverent. Sort of like the Mad magazine of rock n roll. But because they were based in Detroit (and later Birmingham, MI), they didn't kiss corporate ass like Rolling Stone. There were no sacred cows. Plus, they were more attuned to what was happening on the street than Rolling Stone and Hit Parades and Circus. CREEM recognized what was happening with the New York Dolls, Ramones, Sex Pistols, Dead Boys, long before the other U.S. media.

Rolling Stone had Led Zeppelin on its cover only once from 1969-1980. CREEM had Led Zeppelin on their cover at least 10 times and even published a special Led Zeppelin issue.I

If you were a U.S. Led Zeppelin fan,  CREEM was the best, if not only, way to keep up with Led Zeppelin in the pre-internet, pre-MTV 1970s.

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23 minutes ago, Strider said:

You must be young so I will forgive such an ignorant question. For nobody who lived in the 1970s would ever confuse America's Only Rock n Roll magazine with Tiger Beat.

Also, you do understand the concept of Reader Polls, don't you? It is the results of the readers sending in their ballots. It is not a decision made by the writers or editors of the magazine. Rolling Stone would do that...have the writers/editors poll and a separate reader poll. But CREEM left it all up to the readers.

CREEM was a monthly rock magazine started by two record store guys in Detroit in 1969, Barry Kramer and Tony Reay. It was named after Tony's favourite band, Cream. Dave Marsh and Lester Bangs were early writers, Lester joining in 1971 after leaving Rolling Stone. Patti Smith wrote for CREEM before becoming a musician herself.

Other writers during the magazine's heyday during the 1970s until about 1985-86: Richard Meltzer, Grail Marcus, Robert Christgau, Cameron Crowe, Billy Altman, Lisa Robinson, Jaan Uhelzski, Robot A. Hull, Rick Johnson, Susan Whitall, Nick Tosches, John Kordosh, Sylvie Simmons, Simon Frith, Dave DiMartino, Bill Holdship.

The magazine was humourous, self-deprecating, and irreverent. Sort of like the Mad magazine of rock n roll. But because they were based in Detroit (and later Birmingham, MI), they didn't kiss corporate ass like Rolling Stone. There were no sacred cows. Plus, they were more attuned to what was happening on the street than Rolling Stone and Hit Parades and Circus. CREEM recognized what was happening with the New York Dolls, Ramones, Sex Pistols, Dead Boys, long before the other U.S. media.

Rolling Stone had Led Zeppelin on its cover only once from 1969-1980. CREEM had Led Zeppelin on their cover at least 10 times and even published a special Led Zeppelin issue.I

If you were a U.S. Led Zeppelin fan,  CREEM was the best, if not only, way to keep up with Led Zeppelin in the pre-internet, pre-MTV 1970s.

That's nice and all, but I don't see how you're using teenagers voting on polls in a magazine to justify the quality of a tour. Obviously Iggy Pop had the comeback of the year despite making the most pathetic list lol. 

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1 hour ago, gibsonfan159 said:

That's nice and all, but I don't see how you're using teenagers voting on polls in a magazine to justify the quality of a tour. Obviously Iggy Pop had the comeback of the year despite making the most pathetic list lol. 

Oh for fuck's sake, if you're going to be that obtuse about it, I give up. Are you trying to imply that it was only teenagers that went to Led Zeppelin concerts? You are so wrong and off-base, you might as well write for Rolling Stone or the National Inquirer.

For one thing, it wasn't a teeny-bopper magazine any more than Rolling Stone was. Their readers ranged from high schoolers to college kids to 20 and 30-something workers. Their readership covered a wide socio-economic scale. Even President Carter sent them a Christmas card.

That is exactly why you had a wide range of answers in the polls. You had traditional rockers, the metal heads, the punks, the glam crowd, the Detroit Rock City crowd, Motowners, the New York and LA scenesters, and those who liked a little of everything.

I would take CREEM's reader polls as a true barometer of the times over Rolling Stone or Playboy's music polls.

So yes...you could have Iggy Pop or Kiss or whoever place highly in the Best and Worst lists.

Led Zeppelin did well in the polls after the 1973 and 1975 tours. But nothing like after the 1977 tour. That's the main thrust of what I am saying...the 1977 tour really resonated with people. That would not have happened if they had sucked.

But hey, keep holding on to your "1977 sucks" mantra if that makes you happy. I'm just glad I didn't have to sit next to your negative ass at the shows.

Edited by Strider

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18 minutes ago, Strider said:

But hey, keep holding on to your "1977 sucks" mantra if that makes you happy. I'm just glad I didn't have to sit next to your negative ass at the shows.

Uhmm, I'm not the one who said it sucked. I made a case for how it didn't. I just asked about the legitimacy of Creem and I appreciate the info. Unwad that panties, dear sir.

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Gibson just wanna say Strider LIVED IT.  You weren’t even alive then, you guys don’t know.  Show some respect all of you. 

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5 minutes ago, bluecongo said:

Gibson just wanna say Strider LIVED IT.  You weren’t even alive then, you guys don’t know.  Show some respect all of you. 

Jesus H. Christ, I'm not arguing with him lol. I give up.

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I suspect the band could have read from phone books at the '77 concerts and the audiences would have cheered wildly.  

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34 minutes ago, JohnOsbourne said:

I suspect the band could have read from phone books at the '77 concerts and the audiences would have cheered wildly.  

I don't believe I agree with that. I know three people who attended the Tempe concert in 77' and they were pretty pissed, as were most in attendance that night. Two of the people also saw them during the LA run and said they were amazing at the LA shows they saw, night and day to Tempe.

So a certain contingent would be very happy just drooling over Roberts crotch or Jimmy's quaalude shuffle, but the majority wanted, and would recognize a good show from a bad one, even in the drug haze of 1977.

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4 hours ago, bluecongo said:

Gibson just wanna say Strider LIVED IT.  You weren’t even alive then, you guys don’t know.  Show some respect all of you. 

It's cool, bluecongo. I don't mind a little spirited banter...it's good for the forum to have different views and perspectives of the band.

4 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Jesus H. Christ, I'm not arguing with him lol. I give up.

No hard feelings, man. I'm very passionate about Led Zeppelin and CREEM. To me they are forever linked in a way they never could be with any other media outlet.

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