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joncl

Song Remains the Same Re-Issue - No Quarter

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Brigante said:

The No Quarter edit really does pull you out of the song with a jolt and a lurch - it's a pretty cackhanded cut, I've got to say.
You really do need the original - and, like Walter said, that way you'd also have the old solo at the end of Celebration Day, too. 
 

Absolutely. You also need the original for the better edit of WLL. This new release will pretty much be worthless unless it's a remaster of the original soundtrack album, with all of the extra songs that weren't on the original.

Edited by porgie66

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5 hours ago, porgie66 said:

Absolutely. You also need the original for the better edit of WLL. This new release will pretty much be worthless unless it's a remaster of the original soundtrack album, with all of the extra songs that weren't on the original.

+1...We are talking to YOU Jimmy!!!

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Just listened to the old vinyl this morning and compared the Celebration Day. Why did they switch out the vocals? The original had Plant almost matching the studio vocals. Plus they just had more character. The remaster sounds like he came into the studio and redubbed the whole thing against his will.

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I think its fair to say that instead of putting right all the mistakes and differences between the film and audio from the original release, the new version just muddied the waters even further. obviously getting the extra tracks was fantastic, but then they added the horrendous edits

its not just that the new edits have omitted some cracking bits, NQ the funky section of WLL, its that the edits are so badly done. the worst edits I've ever heard on ANY album in 45 years of buying albums. that's not what I would expect from Zeppelin. newcomers to the band who bought the new version must wonder what all the fuss about the greatness of the band was all about. if id heard that album for the first time id think Page had cloth ears

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I know the bad editing for this has been beat to death, but every time I try to listen to the remaster I find something that sounds ridiculous, like at 1:06-1:22 on the Rock And Roll vocals. At 1:10 Plant suddenly jumps up to high pitch on "Light", then back down at 1:18. How can a professional studio engineer not notice how off this sounds? Alright, I'll stop beating the horse.

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1 hour ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I know the bad editing for this has been beat to death, but every time I try to listen to the remaster I find something that sounds ridiculous, like at 1:06-1:22 on the Rock And Roll vocals. At 1:10 Plant suddenly jumps up to high pitch on "Light", then back down at 1:18. How can a professional studio engineer not notice how off this sounds? Alright, I'll stop beating the horse.

Perhaps the studio engineer was taking marching orders from the powers that be???

R😳

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On 7/14/2018 at 3:27 PM, Zeppered said:

My problem lies with the deletion of the original album availability. Not with the new content.

IMO, those should be presented as bonus tracks.

Will future generations never know of the original tracks?

 

The first version of the soundtrack i bought was the 2007 one. (im born in 95 and i think i bought it in 07-09 TSRTS was the last one i didint have in my collection)

Around 2011-2012 i found out from wikipedia that the old version of the soundtrack had different edits to songs, so i went and bought the old version, which is still available btw. 

I grew to love the 2007 version of No Quarter more probably cause thats the version i first heard.

The 1976 one is also amazing but the production is bothering me, especially how the drums are mixed, dosent work with headphones at all.

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On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 3:08 PM, rebeldhipi said:

The first version of the soundtrack i bought was the 2007 one. (im born in 95 and i think i bought it in 07-09 TSRTS was the last one i didint have in my collection)

Around 2011-2012 i found out from wikipedia that the old version of the soundtrack had different edits to songs, so i went and bought the old version, which is still available btw. 

I grew to love the 2007 version of No Quarter more probably cause thats the version i first heard.

The 1976 one is also amazing but the production is bothering me, especially how the drums are mixed, dosent work with headphones at all.

 

Cool. 

By available I assume you mean through old stock/used market. My concern was that the original is no longer in print on any format.

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Some of the great improv in D&C (near the return to the main theme near the end) that was in the movie was not in the original '76 soundtrack.  Their inclusion in the 2007 release alone makes that version competitive with (if not better than) the original IMO.  Plus the inclusion of OTHAFA, SIBLY, etc.  And it's not like NQ really loses any of the essence of the sublime solo.  Count me as favoring '07 over '76 here.

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2 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said:

  And it's not like NQ really loses any of the essence of the sublime solo. 

I'd have to disagree. The drum and bass build up that Page slowly creeps his way into with the chorded riffs is a vital part of the live representation. I think it's necessary to set the mood and it just sounds unnatural without it, like a CD skipping. Then you have the actual introductory phrase that's always played (even on the studio version) that gets cut. Without that the solo is never properly introduced.

I can understand that this was never actually meant to be a live album, but a soundtrack. But then you have the bonus songs, so that whole statement goes out the window.

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19 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I'd have to disagree. The drum and bass build up that Page slowly creeps his way into with the chorded riffs is a vital part of the live representation. I think it's necessary to set the mood and it just sounds unnatural without it, like a CD skipping. Then you have the actual introductory phrase that's always played (even on the studio version) that gets cut. Without that the solo is never properly introduced.

I can understand that this was never actually meant to be a live album, but a soundtrack. But then you have the bonus songs, so that whole statement goes out the window.

Fair point, I'd overlooked the drum intro.

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What I find unfortunate is that it seems very apparent that Plant and Jones likely beyond those first box sets and remasters

(early 90's) have given Jimmy a free hand in almost all future releases. I can't Imagine JPJ, steady and mellow as he is,accepting those almost criminal cuts in NQ . And Plant may have heard some of those lopsided changes to his voice in

the movie/soundtrack, but I'm not sure Robert feels it's worthwhile to go wrestle with Jimmy . Zep has become a gigantic

pyramid in music, but especially since that 2007 TSRTS release, Jimmy has cheapened the Zep Gold Standard, where every

release really meant something and was very worthwhile.

 

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On 7/10/2018 at 8:24 PM, porgie66 said:

Even though the old LP mix isn't the greatest, I prefer it to the overly processed sound of the 2007 remaster. That was such a missed opportunity, sonically and content wise. It's been said way too many times here , but the real fans want the original LP version, remastered, and with the addition of Black Dog, OTHAFA, Misty, SIBLY, Heartbreaker and The Ocean. Which is basically, the Heywood version. 

Too bad, another disappoinment. Hope come fall the good shit will start to appear. 

thank you. this is exactly the point. the NQ solo, along with the solo from  sibly in the same concert, are two of the greatest solos ever. equally important which people aren't mentioning is that the version of dazed and confused on the original album contains parts that were missing from the film because they didn't have the footage, and those missing parts are gems. some of the most insane funky jamming in rock history.. i remember there was a legal issue about re-releasing the album in any form other than one that is the audio version of the film, rather than the far better original audio versions from TSRTS album. either way, no amount of remastering makes the 2007 version anywhere near as great as the original 1976 version.

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On 8/12/2018 at 8:49 PM, Zeppered said:

 

Cool. 

By available I assume you mean through old stock/used market. My concern was that the original is no longer in print on any format.

Not sure if its still in print.

Its still available in new in amazon, and my local record store had it in new when i got it.

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To me this is the biggest tragedy in music. I remember getting the 2007 remaster and being totally disturbed that No Quarter had been butchered. The original soundtrack version is my favorite piece of music ever, and for whatever reason, Page ruined it. I even made my own version by cutting together the original and remaster that works quite well.  I was looking forward to this remaster just for the hope that No Quarter was restored but after hearing that it’s not, it’s absolutely a no purchase for me. Why Jimmy? Why?!

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1 hour ago, volta2001 said:

To me this is the biggest tragedy in music

Haha  easy now.....

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On 9/5/2018 at 1:24 PM, badgeholder said:

Haha  easy now.....

If it’s my fav piece of music ever , changed my life (28yrs old) ya. Wow this forum is dead. Thanks jimmy 

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I think what everybody forgets is that the attitude of those involved in the product won't always be the same attitude as those who listen to the product. For anyone here to think that JPJ is cringing over the cuts is way out of bounds. He may feel that way but We/You cannot simply say that you know how he feels about it because of how you feel.  Most times if you allow a musician to listen back to what they've played they will have a totally different take on what is heard then you do. The mistakes they hear as compared to the ones you perceive could be totally different and they may feel that what they played wasn't even what they wanted to accomplish at the time. Just because you love it doesn't mean they do.

 

The fact that Jimmy made cuts to something we all love doesn't mean he sees it anywhere near as dreadful as we do.

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At the time of the 2003 DVD, they went through and transferred and viewed 12-14 hours worth of footage from the 3 nights at the Garden.   When they finally get around to reconstructing a single full concert with the 12-14 hours of footage it’s going to be spectacular. 

Edited by Sticks of Fire

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18 hours ago, Sticks of Fire said:

When they finally get around to reconstructing a single full concert with the 12-14 hours of footage it’s going to be spectacular. 

Jimmy will probably want to spend three years bringing the quality of those 12-14 hours of footage up to date from 2003 standards first, though... <_<

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It's sad that Jimmy has lost all connection to fan base. What he should REALLY do is release the show , even with Philly or Pittsburg inserts in its entirety. This film with the fantasy sequences to me is the only mistep the band ever took. Jimmy taking away that solo from the fans,  to me , is another.  Seems like Robert has more of a connection. 

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11 hours ago, Blaize86 said:

It's sad that Jimmy has lost all connection to fan base. What he should REALLY do is release the show , even with Philly or Pittsburg inserts in its entirety. This film with the fantasy sequences to me is the only mistep the band ever took. Jimmy taking away that solo from the fans,  to me , is another.  Seems like Robert has more of a connection. 

Shut up. If he'd lost connection he wouldn't be doing anything.

Robert has the real connection, the bloke who shuns anything Zep related?

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12 hours ago, TheStairwayRemainsTheSame said:

Shut up. If he'd lost connection he wouldn't be doing anything.

Robert has the real connection, the bloke who shuns anything Zep related?

I love Jimmy but he needs to show he is a musician first. By Plant not doing Zep doesn't mean Robert doesn't like the fans. He's just on his own trip as a musician. Jimmy on the other hand to boast album sales releases a 240.00 package of Song Remains The Same where only a sharp ear would really hear the difference in the recording.  Plus leaving the butchered NQ just shows you that Jimmy can give a crap about what the fans want.    

Jimmy, please act like a true musician and not like a manager ....of the past. McCartney still makes music, Clapton, Plant, Daltrey, Neil Young,  Springsteen, Gilmour. Musicians are always creating. Jimmy's best way to show that he gives a crap about the fans is too release some new stuff or go to live archives and release some hard to find stuff. 

Robert is mature enough to move on,  All the amateur fans out there ( in public ) think that Plant coming back would  heal all their breakup wounds. Zeppelin music is physical and tiresome performed live. It's  asking Mike Tyson to come back to fight. Or even George Foreman. It's impossible. It's actually incredible to read fans reaction in 2007 that Plant can't sing like he used to.....???? Of course not!!!. No one can. Especially in his vocal register. Do you think now it would sound good..?? Acoustic is the answer but Planty would probably sprinkle it with his Arabic beats and chants like PP of the 90s. Rubbish.

At least Robert is not living in the past 100% likemJimmy  is. Jimmy is always been aloof in the British rock guitar scene. Not the most highly regarded by his English peers ( Americans , yes ) and I think a lot has to do with his ability to keep to himself, away from the crowd ( which is fine ) and really not creating  new material. You would think that the documentary with The Edge and JBlck  would have done it. Instead he charges fans an enormous amount of money for "upgraded " sounding past recordings with no real true " finds ". Really, LZ 4 special edition? Wow  !! an alternate " Rock n Roll" without 1 overdubbed guitar. An acoustic GTC with no vocal...???  Please guys let's get real here...

 

 

 

 

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