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Phonostage

HI - I have an interesting Led Zeppelin Acetate..

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Does anyone know where this might have come from? After some careful listening it is a mono version of three tracks that appear on other releases but they are a different sounding mix, one a different pitch or speed and also with less top/tail edits so you can hear Robert Plant say things like 'this is the time where we usually do have a cup of tea..' etc.. also the mix is clearly different at the beginning of Stairway to Heaven where the reverb is all over the place..  Could these be scrapped mixes or something? I was told that this was the producer's copy from recording. It has Space Odyssey tracks on the other side! I would like any information anyone can give me because I haven't seen another disc like it. This is an IBC Acetate - it is quite heavy and probably has a metal base. Thanks

IMG_3283.JPG

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Sorry I should have added - they are three live tracks, two from the Paris Theatre in 1971 and then White Summer from the Playhouse Theatre in 1969

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If your description is completely accurate it could be a program producer's copy. My hunch is if you aggressively compare it to program content that is known to exist you will find the music content matches that which is already in circulation on bootlegs. I'd like to be wrong! As to the acetate itself, it could be an acetate for an original BBC Transcription Disc.

 https://www.discogs.com/label/150837-BBC-Transcription-Services

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Hi. I have checked and the three tracks are exactly the same as the BBC sessions, I checked evert note! just  different mixes or editing and not cropped down as much as the released versions. Definitely a studio sound. Dead clear apart from the crackes, no way recorded by a device at a venue

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24 minutes ago, Phonostage said:

Hi. I have checked and the three tracks are exactly the same as the BBC sessions, I checked evert note! just  different mixes or editing and not cropped down as much as the released versions. Definitely a studio sound. Dead clear apart from the crackes, no way recorded by a device at a venue

Interesting. Accepting what you say at face value, the acetate does seem to be a producer's copy of material recorded for the BBC. IF it does contain any banter from Robert, the other band members or moments of the musical performances not in circulation you may really have something here. It remains up to you to decide if you're going to have a digital clone of the content uploaded so that it can be enjoyed more widely. If that is something you're interested in, I can provide referrals to you -- people willing to produce a digital clone at no cost.  

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14 hours ago, Phonostage said:

Does anyone know where this might have come from? After some careful listening it is a mono version of three tracks that appear on other releases but they are a different sounding mix, one a different pitch or speed and also with less top/tail edits so you can hear Robert Plant say things like 'this is the time where we usually do have a cup of tea..' etc.. also the mix is clearly different at the beginning of Stairway to Heaven where the reverb is all over the place..  Could these be scrapped mixes or something? I was told that this was the producer's copy from recording. It has Space Odyssey tracks on the other side! I would like any information anyone can give me because I haven't seen another disc like it. This is an IBC Acetate - it is quite heavy and probably has a metal base. Thanks

IMG_3283.JPG

IMHO, that is fake/home-made & I've seen a few similar ones like the one attached which has the same hand-writing, lol.  There were many different mixes of that BBC 71 session through the years.  This is taken from one of those existing mixes.

Here's a similar Beatles one that is assessed as "This is surely not an authorized disc. Someone probably cut it for their own use"
https://www.beatlesource.com/bs/ao-ibc1.html

 

lz_bbc_acetate.jpg

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That may be so however the Beatles reference supposes that the tracks are just copies of those already released, this contains wider edits than those that made it to the BBC published recordings of these tracks. And some different (or unmixed) mixing. I can provide clips of some of the bits that haven't made it onto the complete BBC sessions or the Acetate Masters... Also what you see above (the Beatles reference) is just an opinion, on the Moody Blues forum someone confirmed that the IBC discs of this type were made as one-offs for producers and engineers to test mixes. 

 

What seems to make the difference is whether or not they are the same as the album or released tracks or if they were different edits or mixes. These are different.

See here:

https://991.com/Buy/ProductInformation.aspx?StockNumber=574641&PrinterFriendly=1

and here:

http://www.themoodyblues.co.uk/acetates.htm

check the picture of the IBC disc with 'A DB DISC' written on it then scroll down to point 2 in the 'What are acetates?' section

 

I have now read around quite a lot here and recorded the file into the computer - (which has only served to enhance any noise and the record sounds better at the moment ) - but I don't want to play the record any more than necessary, I have heard they wear quickly - so I will edit the sound file and upload some clips. I am now convinced because of Robert Plant's banter, the different tape pitch of one of the tracks and the overall sound which is much clearer and studio-like then the BBC sessions which is heavily edited and de-noised, that this is a studio test run of rejected mixes - hence the screwed up reverb on 'Stairway To Heaven' amongst other things....

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1 hour ago, Phonostage said:

Also of course these are not the same writing. The photo where the writing is in red is by another hand.

They're exactly the same. Yours has little circles above the "i", that's literally the only difference.

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1 hour ago, zeplz71 said:

They're exactly the same. Yours has little circles above the "i", that's literally the only difference.

 Commas instead of full stops after the numbers and the "A" in ADB Disc is different

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That is not true - it is clearly different, look at the 'E's.

One writes the E with either one vertical line in a curve or two max, leaving only either one or two horizontals to add - the other one vertical and  three horizontal lines every time. That is a fundamental difference and there are a few others.

Thanks

Edited by Phonostage

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Any actual graphologists out there worth their salt care to interject here? We are at risk of drifting off on a tangent!

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The red flags for me are the 'unreleased' and 'from the yet to be released...' text on the labels. No cutting technician or whoever would write anything subjective like that on a legitimate acetate.

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44 minutes ago, Phonostage said:

They were actually unreleased for many years after this was made.. would it help if I uploaded a couple of clips?

The songs were released on the fourth LP later the same year as this BBC session, which aired just a few days after being recorded in April '71. 

Personally, I don't think that acetate is legit.

 

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9 hours ago, sam_webmaster said:

The songs were released on the fourth LP later the same year as this BBC session, which aired just a few days after being recorded in April '71. 

Personally, I don't think that acetate is legit.

 

HI - No sorry what I meant was these versions of the songs weren't released for many years. They were recorded live for a John peel session in the case of two of them. They then appeared on The Complete BBC Sessions in 2016, however these versions as I said are not edited the same, they include Robert Plant introducing the songs 'Here's a little something off our 4th album' and other rambles rather then just beginning at the beginning of the track, also it is a mix that didn't make it though to the final one as the reverb is being messed about with at the beginning of Robert's vocal track on Stairway to Heaven that is not present or is reduced on the released 2016 version. This is on Robert's vocals only so has not been applied globally by a live hacker transcribing the disc at some stage later. This is a recording of a mix of a released song that has been transcribed to disc in the middle of mixing or similar. 

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On 10/29/2018 at 4:27 AM, Pb! said:

The red flags for me are the 'unreleased' and 'from the yet to be released...' text on the labels. No cutting technician or whoever would write anything subjective like that on a legitimate acetate.

I’m no expert but this would get my alarm bell ringing too. Why would that need to be written on an in-house demo. The only reason it appears to be there is for enticement.

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3 hours ago, babysquid said:

I’m no expert but this would get my alarm bell ringing too. Why would that need to be written on an in-house demo. The only reason it appears to be there is for enticement.

Anyone may have written that on the label in the intervening years. I defer to Sam's assessment, however, the only way to know for certain is to hear the content. The content either contains previously unheard Robert Plant banter or it doesn't.

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16 minutes ago, SteveAJones said:

Anyone may have written that on the label in the intervening years. I defer to Sam's assessment, however, the only way to know for certain is to hear the content. The content either contains previously unheard Robert Plant banter or it doesn't.

Righto - I will do a bit of editing (It's one mega-file at the moment!) and upload the clips.. that'll be the teller - hopefully! Thanks

 

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2 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Anyone may have written that on the label in the intervening years. I defer to Sam's assessment, however, the only way to know for certain is to hear the content. The content either contains previously unheard Robert Plant banter or it doesn't.

It won't, bootlegs of the April 71 BBC Paris Theatre performance contain all the banter the OP reports that is on this "so called" acetate. Nothing new, nothing unheard here. .

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5 minutes ago, Phonostage said:

Were they recorded by devices at the show or were they studio recordings? Thanks

 

Live recordings made by The BBC.

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Here we are - a couple of clips..  tried to get a bit of talking on both and the odd reverb on Stairway to Heaven - hope this is of some interest..

 

Drat! Just tried and it won't let me attach an audio file! Any ideas anyone? Do I have to get an account with someone I will never use again?

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21 minutes ago, Phonostage said:

 Do I have to get an account with someone I will never use again?

 

It would be helpful, though JTM sounds convinced there's nothing new here.

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