Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[MadScreamingGallery]

Maybe someone can solve this mystery for me. On the inside booklet of the cd Zeppelin IV, there is a small picture of what I assume to be an alchemist reading a book. Was this pic ever on the album? Mind you, it's been a long time since I've actually owned a vinyl copy of Zeppelin IV, but I sure don't recall this picture being on it. Although, I have seen the picture somewhere before.

Anyone have a clue?

If you could post a scan of the picture it may help.

Yes, the picture of the alchemist reading a book of magick, (it looks like an old woodcut) - does appear on the paper sleeve inside of the album cover of LZ IV (it appears on the side of the sleeve that has the lyrics to STH, on the other side of the sleeve are the band's symbols). It's a small picture in the lower left corner of the sleeve.

Edited January 23, 2008 by MadScreamingGallery

[mos6507]

Actually, the song surfaced a little over a year ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-gSHihi7lE

The "measuring a summer's day" lyric was indeed carried over to "Tangerine", but the rest of the lyrics (including the chorus) are different. And there is no proof that Keith Relf wrote any of those lyrics.

Wow, thanks a lot for finding that link. Great stuff!

[59LesPaul]

Thanks, Chrestus. I'll have to listen to "Rip It Up"- I think there is a story about "Rock and Roll" being based on an improv that started with Bonzo fooling around with the drum intro of a Little Richard song. Can't remember which one, though.

Wasn't it 'Tutti Frutti'?

[Sunray782]

Wasn't it 'Tutti Frutti'?

The beginning drum beat was possibly inspired by "Keep A-Knockin'" by Little Richard, or by the identical drum line from "Something Else" by Eddie Cochran.

Says wikipedia.

[Chrestus]

Yeah, I went back and listened to it and its definitely "Keep A Knockin'." The reason I thought it was "Rip It Up" is I remember reading an interview with Page a long long time ago and he was talking about "Rock And Roll" and said something to the effect of "Then Bonham started playing around with the 'Rip It Up' thing..." But I guess I remembered it wrong, he must have said "Keep A Knockin." For the life of me I've always remembered it as "Rip it Up."

Magic Sam, that's probably the same intereview you're remembering, about Bonham improvising around a LR song.

[Idunn]

Yes, the picture of the alchemist reading a book of magick, (it looks like an old woodcut) - does appear on the paper sleeve inside of the album cover of LZ IV (it appears on the side of the sleeve that has the lyrics to STH, on the other side of the sleeve are the band's symbols). It's a small picture in the lower left corner of the sleeve.

Thank you...that was driving me crazy!

[croquet'n'cocaine]

Will Shade's BS Ripoff Cospiracy part 3

Now we get into some of the few actual facts that Shade uses, as opposed to the biased opinions that make up the majority of his argument. Even so, he gets his facts confused. There were two suits against Led Zeppelin here, Dixon in the 80's over Whole Lotta Love, and ONE suit in the 70's over Bring It On Home and the Lemon Song by Arc Music, the publishing arm of Chess Records who Dixon himself had to sue to get his royalties.

[...]

Regarding the suit from Arc music- Shade conveniently ignores the fact that the true party who Zep were denying royalties to wasn't blues artists but was, in fact, a publishing company who blues artists had to sue in order to get royalty money. Denying Arc music doesn't seem like much of crime in that light. Notice that Zep credited the Richie Valens influenced Boogie With Stu not to Valens himself but to his mother? Could it be that the band might be more aware of just who ends up with the royalty money than their critics are?

The Dixon suit was settled out of court. Lennon and Harrison were both successfully sued for plagarism. It happens. The Beatles are good company to be in.

This is a great point (to go with all your other great points).

In the case of John Lennon, he was sued for using a line from a Chuck Berry song in The Beatles' Come Together. But, as with Led Zep, he was sued by the owner of the rights, Morris Levy, and not by Chuck Berry. From Wiki: "Lennon ultimately settled with Levy by agreeing to record three songs from Levy's publishing catalogue during the sessions for his LP Rock & Roll." Hopefully those royalties did end up with the original songwriters somewhere down the line, but I doubt it.

[MS1]

This is a great point (to go with all your other great points).

In the case of John Lennon, he was sued for using a line from a Chuck Berry song in The Beatles' Come Together. But, as with Led Zep, he was sued by the owner of the rights, Morris Levy, and not by Chuck Berry. From Wiki: "Lennon ultimately settled with Levy by agreeing to record three songs from Levy's publishing catalogue during the sessions for his LP Rock & Roll." Hopefully those royalties did end up with the original songwriters somewhere down the line, but I doubt it.

Thanks, C 'n Q! (great handle, BTW. ) I do know that Willie Dixon successfully sued Arc Music. But I'm not sure how much sympathy he really deserves- in the Howling Wolf Bio Moaning At Midnight an eyewitness remembered Wolf performing Little Red Rooster in the 1930s. Fast forward thirty years and it's a Dixon song? Things that make you go hmmmmm.

In any case, it's quite clear that "borrowing" is standard procedure in music in general and the Blues in particular. Anyone who says different has an axe to grind.

[ally]

Thanks, C 'n Q! (great handle, BTW. ) I do know that Willie Dixon successfully sued Arc Music. But I'm not sure how much sympathy he really deserves- in the Howling Wolf Bio Moaning At Midnight an eyewitness remembered Wolf performing Little Red Rooster in the 1930s. Fast forward thirty years and it's a Dixon song? Things that make you go hmmmmm.

In any case, it's quite clear that "borrowing" is standard procedure in music in general and the Blues in particular. Anyone who says different has an axe to grind.

Your right .. There's a little Robert Johnson in everything

[Otto Masson]

Thanks for your contribution Magic Sam - many interesting points. PM sent!

[jabe]

Steve,

This may not be a mystery per se,more of a subjective opinion on your part.

On Plant's solo efforts up to and including Fate of Nations,which guitarist do you feel was the best fit with Plant?

[SteveAJones]

Steve,

This may not be a mystery per se,more of a subjective opinion on your part.

On Plant's solo efforts up to and including Fate of Nations,which guitarist do you feel was the best fit with Plant?

Robbie Blunt, who appeared on his first three solo albums (1981-1985). I also happen to

believe he remains the best fit if you consider the Strange Sensation era too.

[SteveAJones]

John Paul Jones Fantasy Sequence in TSRTS

Horselunges has conducted an extensive review of the film in contrast with photographs from the time, and specualtes the woman holding child in the hallway is none other than

Jimmy's woman Charlotte Martin and their daughter Scarlet. Anyone care to speculate

for or against? I'm still seeking confirmation of which cemetary was used for the filming

of the horseride at night.

[jabe]

Robbie Blunt, who appeared on his first three solo albums (1981-1985). I also happen to

believe he remains the best fit if you consider the Strange Sensation era too.

I pretty much agree with you.Plant did "drop down" a generation or 2/3rd's a generation with Doug Boyle, Phil Johnstone et al [got a son in law] I would have liked another effort after Fate of Nations with the same cast.

[ninelives]

I pretty much agree with you.Plant did "drop down" a generation or 2/3rd's a generation with Doug Boyle, Phil Johnstone et al [got a son in law] I would have liked another effort after Fate of Nations with the same cast.

Doug Boyle's a fantastic guitar player and I love that band and those albums a lot. I also love Fate of Nations - it's of my favorite albums. But for me, I'm partial to the Strange Sensation band. I think they're a great fit for Robert.

Edited February 1, 2008 by ninelives

[MadScreamingGallery]

A question related to my post here: http://forums.ledzeppelin.com//index.php?showtopic=3699

When William S. Burroughs was alive, did he and Jimmy Page ever meet one another again after the '75 concert and interview? I often wondered about this because it seems, from what I read in Burroughs' Crawdaddy piece, that the two had some common interests.

[MS1]

Your right .. There's a little Robert Johnson in everything

And there's a little Skip James in Robert Johnson. Not even he was above a little "borrowing".

[jabe]

Steve- Help me out;indulge me.

Once again, thousand pardons if this has been covered[probably]before.

The studio versions of The Song Remains The Same and The Rain Song are played in different keys on Houses Of The Holy.

The movie version,Song Remains The Same segued into Rain Song in the same key.

Did Page transpose Rain Song up two frets from the studio version?

Or...

Since he was playing the doubleneck-did he tune one guitar in a different key and play the same chords as on the studio issue?

However this was achieved,it show the mental edge expertise of one Jimmy Page.

It's the only way the two songs could work in this sequence.

Yet another typical newbie question.

Thanks.

[pop]

He definitely had the six string of his double neck tuned differently to play Rain Song-I don't know how it relates to the studio version but that explains (one reason anyway) why he didn't play it at O2 as he had the six string tuned to play Stairway and The Song Remains the Same...

[SteveAJones]

A question related to my post here: http://forums.ledzeppelin.com//index.php?showtopic=3699

When William S. Burroughs was alive, did he and Jimmy Page ever meet one another again after the '75 concert and interview? I often wondered about this because it seems, from what I read in Burroughs' Crawdaddy piece, that the two had some common interests.

So far as I know, they never met again. Their interview appears in the Jun 1975 issue

of Crawdaddy, a monthly music magazine which was published in the UK. It does touch

on a phenomenal range of shared interests and underground topics.

Here's an excellent link to learn more about the life and death of William S. Burroughs:

http://www.lawrence.com/news/burroughs/10yearsafter/

(Edit: Date correction)

Edited February 6, 2008 by SteveAJones

[SteveAJones]

Black Forest Germany

I have been there many times, but there is no mysterious connection to Zeppelin aside

from Robert expressing an eagerness to see a girl in Heidelberg around the time of their concert at the Festhalle in Frankfurt in December 1998.

[lajoie]

I have been there many times, but there is no mysterious connection to Zeppelin aside

from Robert expressing an eagerness to see a girl in Heidelberg around the time of their concert at the Festhalle in Frankfurt in December 1998.

Steve,I could be wrong ,but I think Jude put that there as the Cuckoo clocks were originally made IN the Black Forest of Germany .Perhaps she may have not known of refference to Midwich Cookoos from a book. Who knows I may be incorrect?

Edited February 6, 2008 by lajoie

[SteveAJones]

Steve,I could be wrong ,but I think Jude put that there as the Cuckoo clocks were originally made IN the Black Forest of Germany .Perhaps she may have not known of refference to Midwich Cookoos from a book. Who knows I may be incorrect?

I think she was just trying to be funny but I tried to add some value to it. The Midwich

Cuckoos has nothing whatsoever to do with cuckoo clocks. Also, It's an Anglo-Saxon

tale, not Germanic.

[lajoie]

I think she was just trying to be funny but I tried to add some value to it. The Midwich

Cuckoos has nothing whatsoever to do with cuckoo clocks. Also, It's an Anglo-Saxon

tale, not Germanic.

Well Steve there are other sources of information out there ---

[MadScreamingGallery]

Hi Steve,

I think (I may be wrong, though):

The interview appeared in the June '75 issue of Crawdaddy (after the group's '75 U.S. tour). fwiw, I was at the last LZ concerts on their U.S. tour that year and those were the LA Forum concerts at the end of March '75. I always thought that Crawdaddy was a U.S. publication.

So far as I know, they never met again. Their interview appears in the Feb 1975 issue

of Crawdaddy, a monthly music magazine which was published in the UK. It does touch

on a phenomenal range of shared interests and underground topics.

Here's an excellent link to learn more about the life and death of William S. Burroughs:

http://www.lawrence.com/news/burroughs/10yearsafter/