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Coverdale/Page

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2 hours ago, Dr Death said:

I am amazed at Zeppelin fans and their total disregard for this album. There have been a few in this thread who have complimented it, but too few and too far between. Why? I'll tell you why... because of Robert Plant and his comments in 1988. If Plant had come out and said he liked Whitesnake and was a friend of David, you would all love the album. But Plant, being co classless to say the things he did, really made it difficult for Coverdale/Page to get any appreciation with his continual attacks in 1993.

It's got nothing to do with that at all.

There's a general census on this forum that CP has Page's best studio playing since Zeppelin, featuring the old guitar army back in force.

The criticisms are generally that Coverdale's lyrics are cheesy and the production is over-blown, and are unrelated to Plant's jibes at Coverdale.

It might be a cultural thing as well. I reckon a lot of American listeners won't mind the lyrics and production, but the Brits will def think they're a bit on the Somerset cheddar side.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Boleskinner said:

It's got nothing to do with that at all.

There's a general census on this forum that CP has Page's best studio playing since Zeppelin, featuring the old guitar army back in force.

The criticisms are generally that Coverdale's lyrics are cheesy and the production is over-blown, and are unrelated to Plant's jibes at Coverdale.

It might be a cultural thing as well. I reckon a lot of American listeners won't mind the lyrics and production, but the Brits will def think they're a bit on the Somerset cheddar side.

 

 

Well, Coverdale's lyrics were good enough for Jimmy and he gets to the point in his songs. He doesn't sing so you can't understand what he's singing and he's got an extremely powerful voice, something Plant once had, but now Plant's band has to tune way down to accompany his vocal range. Robert probably wishes he had Coverdale's power.

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18 minutes ago, Dr Death said:

Well, Coverdale's lyrics were good enough for Jimmy and he gets to the point in his songs. He doesn't sing so you can't understand what he's singing and he's got an extremely powerful voice, something Plant once had, but now Plant's band has to tune way down to accompany his vocal range. Robert probably wishes he had Coverdale's power.

Dude, might I suggest an Ambien? You need to chill out. You don't come onto a Zeppelin board and start trashing RP over nothing. No one on here that I know gives a shit about what was or was not said about whom in 1988, its about the music, nothing more. As already pointed out, many don't like David's sophmoric lyrics and his cheesy approach but I have heard no one challenge his vocal prowess. BTW, the song you posted, Southern Comfort has IMO some of David's best singing hands down. Understated yet very emotive and powerful. Thank you for that. Also, all of the songs you quoted as Plant stealing the lyrics from (except for NFBM) were credited and royalties paid, thus, Robert did not steal anything in regard to those songs, he was given permission.

Now...quit being a dick and relax. It's all good.

 

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5 hours ago, Dr Death said:

Well, Coverdale's lyrics were good enough for Jimmy and he gets to the point in his songs. He doesn't sing so you can't understand what he's singing and he's got an extremely powerful voice, something Plant once had, but now Plant's band has to tune way down to accompany his vocal range. Robert probably wishes he had Coverdale's power.

Come on David, it's you isn't it.

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Of the Deep Purple singers, I like David's voice second to Ian, Glenn Hughes, never really cared about the guy.

David Coverdale has a set of pipes, though he's no Robert Plant.

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I've seen a lot of fans like this album, it's Page in a much Zeppelin hard rock style and therefore many like it a lot more then Walking into Clarksdale and so the negative comments might have something to do with Plant's comments but not directly, it's just that many fans have similar feelings about it in terms of Coverdale imitating Plant so much, while not having the full lyrical and musical ability of Plant, only imitating parts of Plant's lyrical approach and his bands doing that too and such direct imitation was never something of the great ones and while the whole hard rock thing might be a bit about the ego in the first place, I don't think Plant said these things because he though Coverdale has more power in his voice these days or simply not liking Coverdale working with Page, it was more about preserving the legacy and Page not working with a Plant clone, instead trying to do something new and afterall Plant still has a lot of power and success and in the higher range Coverdale's voice never sounded as good as Plant's, I think Plant sounded more articulated and better sounding on Black dog even in the nineties, he has a smother and more beautiful sounding voice on the highest notes.

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Plant's pennant for dissing other artists has always rubbed me the wrong way, I must admit. I guess he viewed Coverdale as a imitator of himself and had to let it be known, but it was stupid and disrespectful for sure. That being said, I think Paul Rogers was spared Plants dissing because he looked and sounded nothing like him. But, he should have :lol:. You want insipid lyrics? See 'The Firm', "flames r gettin' higher n higher":blink:

Oops, I forgot. Plant knows he has no business criticizing anyone for insipid lyrics, my bad.

 

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12 hours ago, IpMan said:

 Also, all of the songs you quoted as Plant stealing the lyrics from (except for NFBM) were credited and royalties paid, thus, Robert did not steal anything in regard to those songs, he was given permission.

 

 

No, Plant wasn't given permission, because on the original albums those songs were credited to Plant as a songwriter and that's called stealing. Royalties may have been paid... years later... but Plant was definitely not given permission!

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12 hours ago, IpMan said:

You don't come onto a Zeppelin board and start trashing RP over nothing.

That's right!!! That privilege is reserved for Jimmy Page. :D

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3 hours ago, blindwillie127 said:

Plant's pennant for dissing other artists has always rubbed me the wrong way, I must admit. I guess he viewed Coverdale as a imitator of himself and had to let it be known, but it was stupid and disrespectful for sure. That being said, I think Paul Rogers was spared Plants dissing because he looked and sounded nothing like him. But, he should have :lol:. You want insipid lyrics? See 'The Firm', "flames r gettin' higher n higher":blink:

Oops, I forgot. Plant knows he has no business criticizing anyone for insipid lyrics, my bad.

 

I hardly think Plant could accuse Rodgers of imitating him when Free were touring months before Zeppelin formed.

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6 hours ago, Dr Death said:

No, Plant wasn't given permission, because on the original albums those songs were credited to Plant as a songwriter and that's called stealing. Royalties may have been paid... years later... but Plant was definitely not given permission!

How old are you? I bought those album when they first came out and all those songs (except for NFBM) that you mentioned did indeed credit the original writers...Zeppelin were never sued over those songs.

Please do not post nonsense or bullshit on this board. If I want fake news and stupid postings I will go on Facebook.

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19 hours ago, Boleskinner said:

It's got nothing to do with that at all.

There's a general census on this forum that CP has Page's best studio playing since Zeppelin, featuring the old guitar army back in force.

The criticisms are generally that Coverdale's lyrics are cheesy

 

 

Please tell me what is cheesy about this lyric?

 

 

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On 8/13/2017 at 1:50 PM, Walter said:

My opinion as well. His voice doesn't bother me, what he's singing does. His lyrics are the worst.

Walter,

I'm not picking on you, I generally like your posts, but please tell me why this lyric is the worst?

 

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22 hours ago, Dr Death said:

I am amazed at Zeppelin fans and their total disregard for this album. There have been a few in this thread who have complimented it, but too few and too far between. Why? I'll tell you why... because of Robert Plant and his comments in 1988. If Plant had come out and said he liked Whitesnake and was a friend of David, you would all love the album. But Plant, being co classless to say the things he did, really made it difficult for Coverdale/Page to get any appreciation with his continual attacks in 1993.

A lot you say you don't like David's lyrics... okay, fine. David has always said he's a meat and potatoes, nuts and bolts lyricist. One thing he's never done though is rip off blues musicians and claim to have written something that he didn't. Plant didn't just do it on the first two albums either, he did it on IV... When The Levee Breaks. Physical Graffiti on In My Time Of Dying and on Presence on Nobody's Fault But Mine.

So if he's such a good songwriter, why the need to rip people off???

Another question... two of Plant's best songs lyrically in my opinion, are Achilles Last Stand and Carouselambra... and most of you don't even know what Carouselambra is even about... but why write such great lyrics and then sing them so they can't be understood on the album? It took me years to finally figure what he's singing in those two songs, but I just don't get the reason behind his studio performance and how he could sing them in such a way that nobody knew what the heck he was singing.

I'm sure there are videos on You Tube now that have the lyrics to these songs on the screen, but back in the 70's, there was no You Tube.

One last thing, a lot of you have been wondering about the three recorded Coverdale/Page songs that didn't make it on the album. I have two of them, and made a video for Southern Comfort. It will be below.

Jimmy made friends with David quickly and to this day, they remain friends. It's such a shame that most Zeppelin fans are so closed minded on the C/P album.

 

 

That is an absolutely stunning song – David Coverdale was always great

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Boy, that is damn good( Southern Comfort). Hard to understand why it wasn't on the CD, I think it is pretty subtle and

Coverdale restrains himself and shows that he can sing very effectively without some of his trying mannerisms.

It's true that many Zep fans practically hated or dismissed the record. I myself say the Jap shows were damn good,

whatever misgivings I had about the release, live Jimmy and the band were very powerful. Of course had the band played

in the US, quickly the venues would fill up once the word of mouth about the blitzkrieg created by the band got out.

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Thought id put my 2p worth in, only because I hadn't listened to this album in years and took a listen the other day. I have to say I bloody loved it. If you forget when it was made i.e that it was outdated in the grunge era, forget all the Coverdale being a Plant clone etc and all that rubbish and just take the album at face value, I think its a damn good listen.

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I just listened to it again and I must say I'm again quite disappointed. It has a serious lack of structure and creative arranging by Page and Coverdale is just Coverdale, not as good in sound as Plant and with a rather straightforward heavy metal approach in melody and lyrics and together with Page's lack of riffs and structures, even the biggest fans of the album have to admit it's more about the sound and the overall energetic hard rock approach that makes it partially Zeppelin like, rather than the structure.

While it also might be down to not having such a good backing band(for example the drums don't have to sound like Bonham for me, but they lack other qualities of great drumming) that would further inspire Page, it also seems Page had less and less ideas through the years, although Outrider proved he still had quite a lot of them and even on the Page/Plant albums he had quite many truly classy ideas, but even there the approach was more important, Plant's vocals were better and the No quarter album approach of remaking songs was just pure class and Walking into Clarksdale was about poetry and honesty and lyrical playing by Page, it just wasn't Zeppelinish enough for a lot of fans.

And so in comparison to other Page nineties albums the Coverdale Page project is much more hard rock Zeppelinish in style of sound and approach, but Page's lack of ideas and Coverdale's songwriting make it a lot like typical hair metal of the eighties, with the exception of an intro or two and some lone riff, the only thing that really works are the acoustic ballads, as Page just mostly accompanying it and working out some really good chord based structures works really well and Coverdale sounds much better on the lower notes and creates some really beautiful melodies, plus he manages to get atleast a little bit from his heavy metal lyrical style, although he never reaches Plant's best moments.

 

I think more and more that Zeppelin were just really one in a zillion pure gold! Almost everything they created had so many riffs and amazingly inventive structures, yet was so rock and rollish and enjoyable and listenable and with such wonderful sounds of all instruments and surprising arrangements and it was all truly beautiful even in the more hard rocking moments, it was truly great songwriting and composing in complicated ways, while still creating really enjoyable tunes really in the classic rock and roll sense. 

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23 hours ago, IpMan said:

How old are you? I bought those album when they first came out and all those songs (except for NFBM) that you mentioned did indeed credit the original writers...Zeppelin were never sued over those songs.

Please do not post nonsense or bullshit on this board. If I want fake news and stupid postings I will go on Facebook.

I hate to be the one to bring you into reality, but on the original Zeppelin albums the songs were credited to Page and Plant, or as In My Time Of Dying, it was credited to all four members. So how is that getting permission and not stealing? You might want to read up on it... and here you go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_My_Time_of_Dying

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Rather strange, I thought most Zep fans knew about a lot of the songwriting dodges. But it was mainly Plant, even

IMTOD, for example, Page never sounded too close to the originals. HMMT, lyrics from (some) Albert King, but Page's

guitar arrangements sound nothing like " How Many More Years", or whatever. Anyway just like there is a small dedicated

fan base for Robert's solo work, somehow there is a real support among some for the C/P album. To each his own, but 

I was puzzled by that release. Yes Jimmy summons the guitar army back into the fold, but mainly to just fatten up the

sound, nowhere is there some TYG type of song with 5 or 6 guitars all playing a different part. Well if you liked or loved

the album the first time you heard it, great. I will say that the album was much more energetic than the Firm stuff. And I am

a big fan of Madonna's first 10-15 years(oh the horror), so there goes my credibility.

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3 hours ago, Dr Death said:

I hate to be the one to bring you into reality, but on the original Zeppelin albums the songs were credited to Page and Plant, or as In My Time Of Dying, it was credited to all four members. So how is that getting permission and not stealing? You might want to read up on it... and here you go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_My_Time_of_Dying

I believe you need to do a bit more research mate on this particular tune. The reason why no one beside the band members were credited is because the original song was never copyrighted as it was a traditional arrangement going back to at least the late 19th century. It was a tune, or a variation of a tune sung by slaves in the 1850's and later evolved over time. However, as it is a traditional arrangement and they used a portion of the lyrics only (about 50%) and none of the musical arrangement, the song was for all intent and purpose a Zep song. Should they have listed traditional arrangement in the credits, IMO yes, however in the legal sense they had no obligation to do so.

However I am sure David's lyrics in Felling Hot are far superior to anything Plant had written.

So how about you quit the RP & Zep bashing. After all if you have such an issue with Zep maybe a Whitesnake forum is more to your liking.

 

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Oh boy, I really am a bit overactive in this forum lately, need to have a bit of a rest, but maybe I should add it's really not a good idea to have a project collaborator that basically makes a whole career out of remaking Whole lotta love over and over again. Led Zeppelin were basically just about making great music and while they had a rather heavy stile, there were so many creative ways and arrangements how they did that. However with lack of such good musicians as Zeppelin were and with songs like Whole lotta love being amongst Zep's most popular and Page starting to lack ideas, it's quite understandable and it's good he got some new music out, but as someone said it would still be good if they would incorporate some of the sound of the best new rock music that was around at the time, Led Zeppelin always did that in a way and you can still do a solo while incorporating new styles of rock and still have your own style which you can never really completely avoid, even if it was very varied in Zeppelin.

And lack of structure doesn't necessarily disturb me and with doing that they in a way did get closer to modern rock, although not in terms of sound, but the main problem is adding Coverdale's approach to that and while Jimmy still might play a few riffs, this are mostly like two intro riffs and one of them is more a theme then a riff and then there is one riff which is almost totally like Wearing and tearing and an acoustic one sounds like a riff from Heartbreaker solo, so even some stuff that is there is quite recycled. And a lot of electric guitar under the singing is just very typical heavy metal approach and could really hardly be called riffs. Solos are also not that good especially in terms of how they fit the song and in terms of structure, but some are really good.

So overall it's not what I would like, although if someone is writing a few rather simple songs with accompanying instruments that have nothing to do with hard rock structures or even sound, that is not a problem with me and it certainly doesn't have to be complex songs like Ten years gone all the time, but you would expect more from Jimmy and also a better coworker. It's much more important to get an overall good songwriter and singer than someone who is basically just trying to imitate just part of the style of your most successful coworker.

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On 9/25/2017 at 11:13 PM, IpMan said:

 

So how about you quit the RP & Zep bashing. After all if you have such an issue with Zep maybe a Whitesnake forum is more to your liking.

 

Agreed, you bash Zep, get the fuck out.

People who come on here to bash Zep should be automatically banned for life.

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17 hours ago, BledZabbath said:

Agreed, you bash Zep, get the fuck out.

People who come on here to bash Zep should be automatically banned for life.

So why don't you show me where I bashed Zeppelin... you can't because I didn't. I stated a fact that most people know already, and that is that Plant took lyrics from other songwriters and claimed to have written them himself. So you and the rest of the guardians here can chill the f*ck out, I never bashed Zeppelin. Jesus Christ...

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Dr Death is right, if Plant had said he liked Whitesnake  and was a friend of Davids a LOT more people here would have liked that record, That is a given, I Love Plants Voice along with Coverdales, they are both great. What I have not loved about Plant is how he bashes people over the years, and I think BledZabbath needs to chill out. Dr Death was not bashing Zep and if he was so what.

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4 hours ago, lynxwizard said:

Dr Death is right, if Plant had said he liked Whitesnake  and was a friend of Davids a LOT more people here would have liked that record, That is a given, I Love Plants Voice along with Coverdales, they are both great. What I have not loved about Plant is how he bashes people over the years, and I think BledZabbath needs to chill out. Dr Death was not bashing Zep and if he was so what.

So what? Are you serious??? There is noting wrong either in critique or calling something out for scrutiny and debate, however making a completely false accusation (Death claimed Zep & Plant in particular stole IMTOD) is both uncalled for and in bad form. Please see my post above whereby I clear up the brand new controversy regarding IMTOD and educate Death in the process.

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