ZeppFanForever Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 I have spoken to many people many times through the years about this topic and because of this, I would like to ask all of my fellow hard core ZEPPELIN fanatics this question. Is LED ZEPPELIN the TRUE Godfather's of Heavy Metal? In the 1970's and 80's, LED ZEPPELIN was hailed as the Godfather's of Heavy Metal. Today, believe it or not, many music critics as well as music fans do not feel that ZEPPELIN'S music is Heavy Metal. In my opinion, I truly feel that ZEPPELIN'S music is Heavy Metal in its earlier stages as compared to Heavy Metal in the 1980's and beyond. Believe it or not, there are critics that truly believe that the songs "You Really Got me" by THE KINKS, "Ticket To Ride" by THE BEATLES, "Passing The Time" (Long Version) by CREAM and of course, "Paranoid" by BLACK SABBATH are also Heavy Metal music in its earlier stages. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatbo Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 I have spoken to many people many times through the years about this topic and because of this, I would like to ask all of my fellow hard core ZEPPELIN fanatics this question. Is LED ZEPPELIN the TRUE Godfather's of Heavy Metal? In the 1970's and 80's, LED ZEPPELIN was hailed as the Godfather's of Heavy Metal. Today, believe it or not, many music critics as well as music fans do not feel that ZEPPELIN'S music is Heavy Metal. In my opinion, I truly feel that ZEPPELIN'S music is Heavy Metal in its earlier stages as compared to Heavy Metal in the 1980's and beyond. Believe it or not, there are critics that truly believe that the songs "You Really Got me" by THE KINKS, "Ticket To Ride" by THE BEATLES, "Passing The Time" (Long Version) by CREAM and of course, "Paranoid" by BLACK SABBATH are also Heavy Metal music in its earlier stages. What do you think? let the music do the talking: black sabbath, 1st album debut 1970. every song heavy metal! led zeppelin, 1st album debut 1969. one song speed metal! black sabbath, paranoid, released 1971. the definitive heavy metal album! to use the term 'godfather' would infer that band the originator and definer of the term 'heavy metal' as you can see for yourself, nothing is original in music. they say the kinks and cream? they do? beatles? i know who said that-john lennon himself. since i haven't sold over 200 million albums like lennon has, i ain't gonna argue, but..... what about early deep purple? iron butterfly? blue cheer? the who? (godfather of punk, more like, but compare 'can't explain' to 'really got me': same producer (shel talmy) and same rhythym guitar player (jimmy page) jimi hendrix (!!!!!) steppenwolf? (1st band to use the term in a song) for me, hendrix was loud blues but made metal possible and, in some's opinion, recorded some fine examples of metal. zeppelin-impossible to define with two words! gotta go with sabbath.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeptangerine Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Nope on the "Godfathers" thing! However, only Led Zeppelin's two songs, Dazed and Confused & Whole Lotta Love- yes. That's as far as it goes Zeppelin's brief experimental metal phase. Black Sabbath- yes. Deep Purple- yes. Uriah Heep- yes. Amboy Dukes- Ted "Kill it n' Grill it" Nugent- yes UFO- yeah, okay. There's more, but you're asking too much of me to go back that far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeppFanForever Posted July 6, 2008 Author Share Posted July 6, 2008 let the music do the talking: black sabbath, 1st album debut 1970. every song heavy metal! led zeppelin, 1st album debut 1969. one song speed metal! black sabbath, paranoid, released 1971. the definitive heavy metal album! to use the term 'godfather' would infer that band the originator and definer of the term 'heavy metal' as you can see for yourself, nothing is original in music. they say the kinks and cream? they do? beatles? i know who said that-john lennon himself. since i haven't sold over 200 million albums like lennon has, i ain't gonna argue, but..... what about early deep purple? iron butterfly? blue cheer? the who? (godfather of punk, more like, but compare 'can't explain' to 'really got me': same producer (shel talmy) and same rhythym guitar player (jimmy page) jimi hendrix (!!!!!) steppenwolf? (1st band to use the term in a song) for me, hendrix was loud blues but made metal possible and, in some's opinion, recorded some fine examples of metal. zeppelin-impossible to define with two words! gotta go with sabbath.... You have great tastes in music, I also love all of the bands that you mentioned. It seems like all of these legendary bands have contributed to the early stages of Heavy Metal in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeppFanForever Posted July 6, 2008 Author Share Posted July 6, 2008 Nope on the "Godfathers" thing! However, only Led Zeppelin's two songs, Dazed and Confused & Whole Lotta Love- yes. That's as far as it goes Zeppelin's brief experimental metal phase. Black Sabbath- yes. Deep Purple- yes. Uriah Heep- yes. Amboy Dukes- Ted "Kill it n' Grill it" Nugent- yes UFO- yeah, okay. There's more, but you're asking too much of me to go back that far! I LOVE IT! I didn't realize that ZEPPELIN fans were so knowledgeable in the early origins of Heavy Metal. Many critics and fans believe that Heavy Metal really began in the 1980's rather than the 1960's. In reality, ZEPPELIN did contribute to the early origins with Heavy Metal which would later influence Black Sabbath. I absolutely love "Hush" by Deep Purple. Deep Purple would influence ZEPPELIN in many ways. However, The Yardbirds would influence many bands. You are right about "Whole Lotta Love" and "Dazed And Confused" being early Heavy Metal songs. What about "Black Dog" and "Communication Breakdown?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeptangerine Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 You are right about "Whole Lotta Love" and "Dazed And Confused" being early Heavy Metal songs. What about "Black Dog" and "Communication Breakdown?" Black Dog- hmmm- that's borderline, too complex a time signature, but Communication Breakdown is a bit more edgier, so I give it a close third. It's hard to even lump Led Zeppelin in with Black Sabbath & Deep Purple; Tony and Ritchie weren't genre experimentalists, whereas Zeppelin were masterful at blues, rock, folk and of course improv. Ironically, both Sabbath and Deep Purple burnt themselves out early staying on the "heavy" course. I truly feel that if Led Zeppelin kept the course of sounding like Whole Lotta Love, songs like Stairway and Kashmir would have never seen the light of day. I seem to recall John Paul Jones saying somewhere that "after Zeppelin III, we were never compared to Black Sabbath again." That's lucky for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatbo Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 What about "Black Dog" and "Communication Breakdown?" communication breakdown? see my first post....original speed metal song! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Led Zeppelin are not a Heavy Metal band. Led Zeppelin are a band that played heavy music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 gotta go with sabbath.... Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3hrsoflunacy Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 My $.02: I don't think there is a musical comparison between Zep and Sabbath (or DP). Sabbath I would say were the godfathers of Heavy Metal. Zep was far more blues influenced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 My $.02: I don't think there is a musical comparison between Zep and Sabbath (or DP). Sabbath I would say were the godfathers of Heavy Metal. Zep was far more blues influenced. Sabbath for sure but not Zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef free Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Somebody once said something like: "There are only a dozen truely HEAVY riffs, and Jimmy Page owns at least half of them!" This thread got me thinking about heavy riffs and heavy metal (or hard rock as we called it in the 70s). Here's the heaviest riffs I can think of: Purple Haze, Jimi Hendrix Exprience 1967 Sunshine of Your Love, Cream 1968 Whole Lotta Love, Led Zeppelin 1969 Iron Man, Black Sabbath 1970 Smoke on the Water, Deep Purple 1972 Any Suggestions? PS Black Sabbath are the model for what "Heavy Metal" became. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Somebody once said something like: "There are only a dozen truely HEAVY riffs, and Jimmy Page owns at least half of them!" This thread got me thinking about heavy riffs and heavy metal (or hard rock as we called it in the 70s). Here's the heaviest riffs I can think of: Purple Haze, Jimi Hendrix Exprience 1967 Sunshine of Your Love, Cream 1968 Whole Lotta Love, Led Zeppelin 1969 Iron Man, Black Sabbath 1970 Smoke on the Water, Deep Purple 1972 Any Suggestions? PS Black Sabbath are the model for what "Heavy Metal" became. Yep, The Wizard off the first Sabbath album pretty much sums up the beginning of Heavy Metal....Everybody else you've mentioned would be IMO classed as Hard Rock. I hate to put music into cats but Sabbath are the only ones you've listed that I would put there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeTheDuke Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 uhm are we talking about hard rock, heavy metal, hard music, heavy music etc.? It's hard to think that LZ are the godfathers of heavy metal, I prefer to consider them as one of the few ... they gave the basys for the "heavy" music, playing heavy blues really unbelievable for that time. So many things came from LZ first but we can't consider them heavy at all!! And what about band as Blue Cheer, Stooges, MC5 etc. Are they heavy metal? I guess more than Led Zeppelin ... But I'ld like to say that there's a song that it's a real heavy metal song: The Wanton Song A few years ago I listened TWS in a different way and I thought: this is a tipycal metal song ... and it is. Godfathers? no, I think of "inseminators" of heavy music ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeptangerine Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 communication breakdown? see my first post....original speed metal song! right on- and I don't think people give Zeppelin enough credit for their "improv punk" sound, either. When I heard C'mon Everybody for the first time on the 3 disc dvd set, I was blown. First thing I thought was, "Hey, that sounds like the Ramones! Wait, this was played before The Ramones!" I've seen The Ramones more than my fair share, and all I can hear is The Ramones on that song. Grant it, Jimmy JP and Bonzo may not have deliberately meant to sound "punk" at that point, but that's what came out of that song and The Ramones came around four years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 The term "Heavy Metal" originated from a lyric within the Steppenwolf song Born To Be Wild which was about motorcycles and featured on the '60's movie soundtrack of Easy Rider. The only association Zeppelin has with heavy metal is in their name, that being, Led. The heavy metal music genre was IMO, coined by the media. They, along with Cream, Hendrix and possibly The Who pioneered and perfected heavy rock and blues, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeppFanForever Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 Black Dog- hmmm- that's borderline, too complex a time signature, but Communication Breakdown is a bit more edgier, so I give it a close third. It's hard to even lump Led Zeppelin in with Black Sabbath & Deep Purple; Tony and Ritchie weren't genre experimentalists, whereas Zeppelin were masterful at blues, rock, folk and of course improv. Ironically, both Sabbath and Deep Purple burnt themselves out early staying on the "heavy" course. I truly feel that if Led Zeppelin kept the course of sounding like Whole Lotta Love, songs like Stairway and Kashmir would have never seen the light of day. I seem to recall John Paul Jones saying somewhere that "after Zeppelin III, we were never compared to Black Sabbath again." That's lucky for us! THAT IS DEEP MY MAN! I like your observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeptangerine Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 They, along with Cream, Hendrix and possibly The Who pioneered and perfected heavy rock and blues, period. The Who pioneered and perfected blues? I'll give them some credit for an early punk sound, but blues? It's more like a stretch than a possibility. I can't think of any songs bluesy enough for them to play. Keith Moon wouldn't have the patience. What did you have in mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeptangerine Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 THAT IS DEEP MY MAN! I like your observation. Thanks and welcome! (said the wo-man to the poster) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evermore Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I don't see Led Zeppelin as the godfathers of metal. I think the concept was aready there and they certainly influenced it. The concept of light and shade led them to fuse old european classical and folk traditions with american blues. This in itself is not metal but Jimmy's appreciation of the occult and pre raphaelite art lent a baroque aura to the band. This arua influenced classical explorations by other bands from the mid seventies onward. I am thinking of Judas Priest, The Scorpions, Randy Rhoads etc. Metal is defined by the darkness and heaviness of a few forceful bar chords played through a distored guitar. Of course heavy metal would not be what it is without Tony Iommi's riffs. But to me, the term godfather would go to somone who was doing something before anyone was even aware of what his influence would be. The earliest and most influential musician to play riffs like this is Link Wray. Link Wray is the one who I would call the godfather of metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeppFanForever Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 I don't see Led Zeppelin as the godfathers of metal. I think the concept was aready there and they certainly influenced it. The concept of light and shade led them to fuse old european classical and folk traditions with american blues. This in itself is not metal but Jimmy's appreciation of the occult and pre raphaelite art lent a baroque aura to the band. This arua influenced classical explorations by other bands from the mid seventies onward. I am thinking of Judas Priest, The Scorpions, Randy Rhoads etc. Metal is defined by the darkness and heaviness of a few forceful bar chords played through a distored guitar. Of course heavy metal would not be what it is without Tony Iommi's riffs. But to me, the term godfather would go to somone who was doing something before anyone was even aware of what his influence would be. The earliest and most influential musician to play riffs like this is Link Wray. Link Wray is the one who I would call the godfather of metal. Another great observation my man! I also like all of the bands that you mentioned. I'll be seeing JUDAS PRIEST in Selma, Texas on 24 August 2008. R.I.P Randy Rhodes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepyep Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Hi all, Heavy metal is from chemistry! I think that when Tony I. tuned down a 1/2 step,that started the whole thing. Try to remember this;writers,critics and the press put these 'labels' on bands and their music,not the bands themsleves,..... KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 The Who pioneered and perfected blues? I'll give them some credit for an early punk sound, but blues? It's more like a stretch than a possibility. I can't think of any songs bluesy enough for them to play. Keith Moon wouldn't have the patience. What did you have in mind? The Who mainly for LOUD heavy rock. Whilst not pure blues, they performed Young Man Blues & Summertime Blues at Leeds in the '70's. Keith could play anything he set his mind to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shesjustawoman Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 IMO the only led zep song that sounds anywhere close to metal is communication breakdown. what came first communication breakdown or paranoid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tangerine~ Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Led Zeppelin are not a Heavy Metal band. Led Zeppelin are a band that played heavy music I agree. I consider Led Zeppelin to be "hard rock" with of course lots of blues/rock, too. But i don't consider any Led Zeppelin songs to be "Heavy Metal". I would give that title to "Black Sabbath". However, Led Zeppelin always have been and always will be more popular than Black Sabbath, IMO. and certainly better. Black Sabbath was the first rock band i ever saw in concert back in 1979...wish it had been Led Zeppelin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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