JPJ almost leaving the band

[AllisonAdler]

oh, if you are referring to Knebby here, then yes, i absolutely trust what she has to say. but as i said, i doubt whether she has spoken to jimmy regarding this topic.

I'm really glad that you trust Knebby, but the drift of what was being said seemed to suggest that you didn't. Her implication was that there weren't other things going on which would excuse Jimmy's behavior, and it appeared that people were continuing on with questioning that. Also, not going to your best friend's funeral is rather different from the situation here.

[slave to zep]

I'm really glad that you trust Knebby, but the drift of what was being said seemed to suggest that you didn't. Her implication was that there weren't other things going on which would excuse Jimmy's behavior, and it appeared that people were continuing on with questioning that. Also, not going to your best friend's funeral is rather different from the situation here.

that is the situation i was talking about.......i really believe it has to do with the reasons i stated in a few posts back, ie people deal with situations differently. i just don't like people assuming that jimmy had no reason for not attending. we don't know. he, and only he, knows.

[AllisonAdler]

^I think we can leave it at that.

[Gainsbarre]

i came to recognize some different types of people, actually different types of behaviour.

the person who swoops in, arms around you, crying with you, not leaving your side.

the person who comes over, cooks the meals, does the washing, slips away quietly.

the person who comes over, doesnt talk, but just stays near.

the person who doesn't know what to do or say, and keeps away.

Very true,

I'm going through that myself at the moment. A woman who is a fairly good acquaintance of mine, her husband died last week in a tragic accident, and I really don't know what to say or do, so of course I'm avoiding the situation, because I have a tendency to get philosophical and existential, which people don't really find helpful during a bereavement...

[Otto Masson]

During my concert-going years, that was always my impression - that Robert and Jimmy were "really good, close friends" - that there was a special bond between them. I am basing that, though, only upon my own experiences - when the band was touring the U.S. For example, when my friends and I were attending the Zep concerts we were always focused on the two of them - Robert and Jimmy. It wasn't just their musical performances that interested us but also the interplay between the two of them: their body language, small talk, eye contact, glances exchanged. We always believed that that bond between the two was strong during the years that we saw them live - '71-'75. They are great, beautiful memories of the two of them and, when I read about how their friendship was fractured (and some of the things that caused that fracture), it deeply saddens me. Sometimes that happens with friendships, though, no matter how close and how strong the bond: things happen and people respond and behave in different ways and sometimes not in the best way - often there is no explanation for their responses or behaviors - but, because of it, the friendship, if it survives, is never the same.

I posted this some time ago, elsewhere on this board:

At this point, some memories have faded, but others remain crystal clear. At one concert, between songs, we watched as Jimmy was briefly fiddled with something – I can’t remember if it was his guitar or amp or theremin or some other piece of equipment. As Robert was waiting for Jimmy to get whatever needed to be adjusted, sorted out so the band could begin the next song, he was watching Jimmy with a look that I could only describe as “affection”. Then Robert said “Jimmy” – in the manner that close friends address one another. Then Jimmy looked over at Robert and they exchanged a glance and their eyes met and an expression passed across both their faces that we couldn’t interpret as anything but a real friendship that contained both affection and a bond – and we saw that look pass between them on more than one occasion. Sometimes I wish a camera had been there to record those things – they were beautiful to observe. Many years have passed since those Zep concerts and those years have been marked by a number of tragedies: the deaths of Bonzo and Karac, the car accident on Rhodes, Jimmy’s battles with substances, etc. I don’t know what effect, if any, those tragedies and life in general had upon the relationship between Robert and Jimmy. When it comes to the post-Zep relationship between Jimmy and Robert, I am in no position to make an analysis or interpretation. I will leave that to the Zep guys – or to someone who was there to witness it firsthand.

Great post, MSG, thanks. What you describe is pretty much what I am seeing in the live footage we have from 1973 and 1975 - and you get quite a bit of a contrast when you watch the first night at Knebworth, even though that was a pretty good performance for the later years.

[MadScreamingGallery]

[...]

By the way, MSG, lovely post--I didn't see it when you originally wrote it, so thanks for sharing your experiences again!

Thanks very much, Allison!

Great post, MSG, thanks. What you describe is pretty much what I am seeing in the live footage we have from 1973 and 1975 - and you get quite a bit of a contrast when you watch the first night at Knebworth, even though that was a pretty good performance for the later years.

Thanks, Otto. Do you ever recall seeing live footage of what I described (Jimmy adjusting some equipment and Robert waiting for him)? If so, I would love to see it.

Regarding my memories of those experiences:

Back then, I certainly wasn’t aware that I was (as a friend recently told me) “witnessing history being made”. While in the midst of it, I never viewed any of it as “history being made”, I don’t want to diminish in any way the impact of Zep and the importance of the music that they made but the reality was that we were just kids, Zep was our favorite band, and we were merely doing what rock fans did back then, unaware of how important those nights would be, decades later, to people who weren’t there to experience them.

As it is, I couldn’t cobble together an accurate setlist from those nights if my life depended on it (although I do have decent memories of the musical highlights). There are times when I wish I had more memories to offer people who ask me about those concerts. My memories are fragments – like clips from a film, vivid but in no particular order – even some of the years are jumbled. It would be lovely to be able to extract an entire evening from my memory bank and transcribe it as it is playing in my head but, unfortunately, my mind doesn’t work that way (unless science/technology advance to the point where it is possible to tap those hidden memories....).

What can I say? We were young girls and because those are the things that interested us, those are the things on which we focused our attention. I will leave it to those who focused on the grand scheme to share the more important aspects of those concerts. For me, the small moments and details are the memories that remain, all these decades later. Sometimes those of us who are witness to something come to understand (the importance of) that something only long after it is gone.

[IluvJimmyPage]

Regarding my memories of those experiences:

Back then, I certainly wasn’t aware that I was (as a friend recently told me) “witnessing history being made”. While in the midst of it, I never viewed any of it as “history being made”, I don’t want to diminish in any way the impact of Zep and the importance of the music that they made but the reality was that we were just kids, Zep was our favorite band, and we were merely doing what rock fans did back then, unaware of how important those nights would be, decades later, to people who weren’t there to experience them.

As it is, I couldn’t cobble together an accurate setlist from those nights if my life depended on it (although I do have decent memories of the musical highlights). There are times when I wish I had more memories to offer people who ask me about those concerts. My memories are fragments – like clips from a film, vivid but in no particular order – even some of the years are jumbled. It would be lovely to be able to extract an entire evening from my memory bank and transcribe it as it is playing in my head but, unfortunately, my mind doesn’t work that way (unless science/technology advance to the point where it is possible to tap those hidden memories....).

What can I say? We were young girls and because those are the things that interested us, those are the things on which we focused our attention. I will leave it to those who focused on the grand scheme to share the more important aspects of those concerts. For me, the small moments and details are the memories that remain, all these decades later. Sometimes those of us who are witness to something come to understand (the importance of) that something only long after it is gone.

I can totally identify with what you are saying here and completely agree 100%!

I was somehow lucky enough to get a ticket to the world premiere of TSRTS in NYC back in '76 and was able to see all of the members of Led Zep up close, and I also saw them in concert in '77 at Madison Square Garden. Of course at the time I was extremely excited because this was my favorite band and I was totally crazy about Jimmy Page, but I really didn't understand the magnitude of what was happening until years and years later.

I look back on my experiences now and just can't believe how fortunate I was to have been there. And like you said because many decades have passed, I don't remember everything that happened, but I do have many wonderful highlights of those times in memory that I will never forget.

[SunChild]

Very true,

I'm going through that myself at the moment. A woman who is a fairly good acquaintance of mine, her husband died last week in a tragic accident, and I really don't know what to say or do, so of course I'm avoiding the situation, because I have a tendency to get philosophical and existential, which people don't really find helpful during a bereavement...

Gainesbarre, often there is nothing you can say, except "I'm so sorry." Just be there. Bring a casserole. Send a card and some flowers. They won't remember what you said, they'll remember that you were there.

If there's one thing to take from this unfortunate topic, it's to put the other person's feelings above your own. "So anytime somebody needs you, Don't let them down, although it grieves you..."

Thanks very much, Allison!

Thanks, Otto. Do you ever recall seeing live footage of what I described (Jimmy adjusting some equipment and Robert waiting for him)? If so, I would love to see it.

Regarding my memories of those experiences:

Back then, I certainly wasn't aware that I was (as a friend recently told me) "witnessing history being made". While in the midst of it, I never viewed any of it as "history being made", I don't want to diminish in any way the impact of Zep and the importance of the music that they made but the reality was that we were just kids, Zep was our favorite band, and we were merely doing what rock fans did back then, unaware of how important those nights would be, decades later, to people who weren't there to experience them.

As it is, I couldn't cobble together an accurate setlist from those nights if my life depended on it (although I do have decent memories of the musical highlights). There are times when I wish I had more memories to offer people who ask me about those concerts. My memories are fragments – like clips from a film, vivid but in no particular order – even some of the years are jumbled. It would be lovely to be able to extract an entire evening from my memory bank and transcribe it as it is playing in my head but, unfortunately, my mind doesn't work that way (unless science/technology advance to the point where it is possible to tap those hidden memories....).

What can I say? We were young girls and because those are the things that interested us, those are the things on which we focused our attention. I will leave it to those who focused on the grand scheme to share the more important aspects of those concerts. For me, the small moments and details are the memories that remain, all these decades later. Sometimes those of us who are witness to something come to understand (the importance of) that something only long after it is gone.

Lovely post.

It's the small, human memories you share that make these people real to us, Mad. I can look up set lists on line or in a book.

Certainly your description of that moment between Robert and Jimmy causes me to take a deep breath and stand back from my own overheated fan ravings...

[MadScreamingGallery]

I can totally identify with what you are saying here and completely agree 100%!

I was somehow lucky enough to get a ticket to the world premiere of TSRTS in NYC back in '76 and was able to see all of the members of Led Zep up close, and I also saw them in concert in '77 at Madison Square Garden. Of course at the time I was extremely excited because this was my favorite band and I was totally crazy about Jimmy Page, but I really didn't understand the magnitude of what was happening until years and years later.

I look back on my experiences now and just can't believe how fortunate I was to have been there. And like you said because many decades have passed, I don't remember everything that happened, but I do have many wonderful highlights of those times in memory that I will never forget.

Hi IluvJimmyPage - and thanks. It's nice to meet someone else who can identify. I was at the NYC premiere of TSRTS too. It's a long story and off topic but, if you're interested, I can PM you. Short version: at that point in our lives, my friend and I had long ago gotten over our "teenage lust" for the band and, we were so embarrassed by the antics that we engaged in at earlier Zep concerts that, at the premiere, we were falling over one another to avoid the Zep guys.

That's cool that you're also a vet of Zep's MSG concerts - I saw them at the Garden too but my last concert was in '75.

We are really fortunate to have had the Zep experiences we did. At this point in time and at this stage of my life, it's great to look back sometimes. They are wonderful memories.

[RobertPlantyoass]

Thats why there isn't much JPJ on physical grafitti boogie with stu? ring a bell?

[Otto Masson]

Thats why there isn't much JPJ on physical grafitti boogie with stu? ring a bell?

No, that's simply because Stu was an amazing boogie pianist.

Jonesy worked a lot on many of the tracks on Graffiti - easy to spot too, if you think about what songs are there.

[beatbo]

Thats why there isn't much JPJ on physical grafitti boogie with stu? ring a bell?

trampled underfoot....in the light...ring a bell?

by the way, he get a co-writing credit on "boogie with stu". i still think they shoulda paid little richard instead of mrs. valens, but that's just me.

[SteveAJones]

Q: In 1973, is it true you had a quiet word with manager Peter Grant threatening to quit the band unless the tours were arranged to avoid school holidays? Were you actually ready to leave?

"I might have been. I don't bluff generally. But there was a bit of a feeling in the band that we should try and accomodate school holidays. It happened a few times that I was the one who was pushed out to the front to ask. If nobody else will do anything then I will". -- John Paul Jones

[Evster2012]

Q: In 1973, is it true you had a quiet word with manager Peter Grant threatening to quit the band unless the tours were arranged to avoid school holidays? Were you actually ready to leave?

"I might have been. I don't bluff generally. But there was a bit of a feeling in the band that we should try and accomodate school holidays. It happened a few times that I was the one who was pushed out to the front to ask. If nobody else will do anything then I will". -- John Paul Jones

Pretty much what my take was. A little school holiday here and there, and some family time after years of relentless touring and recording does not leaving the band make. One can request a sabbatical without quitting their job. Methinks Jones was just trying to get his point across and get management to take notice. Thanks for the quote!

[beatbo]

Q: In 1973, is it true you had a quiet word with manager Peter Grant threatening to quit the band unless the tours were arranged to avoid school holidays? Were you actually ready to leave?

"I might have been. I don't bluff generally. But there was a bit of a feeling in the band that we should try and accomodate school holidays. It happened a few times that I was the one who was pushed out to the front to ask. If nobody else will do anything then I will". -- John Paul Jones

steve, how do you think this squares with the peter grant assertion? i don't mean the whimsical threat of choirmaster...we knew that was a story-enhancing canard. but jpj seems to insinuate that he was speaking for himself first along with the band. that would mean his threat was band knowledge, not kept on the down low and quietly passed to jimmy later, doesn't it?

[SteveAJones]

steve, how do you think this squares with the peter grant assertion? i don't mean the whimsical threat of choirmaster...we knew that was a story-enhancing canard. but jpj seems to insinuate that he was speaking for himself first along with the band. that would mean his threat was band knowledge, not kept on the down low and quietly passed to jimmy later, doesn't it?

It's fairly clear this was handled by Grant without undue fuss and ultimately resolved (they did not resume touring until 1975). I can see where Jimmy would claim not to have known of John's intentions to leave the band given there was no such intention.

Nearly 25 years later John himself does not recall the specifics, and understandably so.

[snapper]

Q: In 1973, is it true you had a quiet word with manager Peter Grant threatening to quit the band unless the tours were arranged to avoid school holidays? Were you actually ready to leave?

"I might have been. I don't bluff generally. But there was a bit of a feeling in the band that we should try and accomodate school holidays. It happened a few times that I was the one who was pushed out to the front to ask. If nobody else will do anything then I will". -- John Paul Jones

This brings to mind when Jones was handed a note by a boy on a bicycle in TSRTS and after reading it exclaimed "TOUR DATES" with a smile. Obviously they edited out the

"does it conflict with the school holidays?" part.

Rock & Roll and school holidays just don't seem to belong in the same sentence.

That being said, they toured relentlessly from '68 through '73 and certainly needed a break and got one that lasted two years, and thats when the trouble started:

Plants voice was shot by the 75 tour (how'd that happen?) and Page's inconsistent playing and hardcore drug use set in at this time along with some broken fingers.

They took another 2yrs off from touring and by the time the '77 tour began, Plant was lucky to be walking, much less singing and both Page and Bonham had descended into some very scary habits, the same with Grant and Cole and the rest of their crew.

Whats that line? "Idle hands are the devils playground", or something like that.

Damn Jonsey, you had to open your mouth.

[Knebby]

This brings to mind when Jones was handed a note by a boy on a bicycle in TSRTS and after reading it exclaimed "TOUR DATES" with a smile. Obviously they edited out the

"does it conflict with the school holidays?" part.

Just a tiny point ,but Robert got the Tour Dates from the kid on the bike. Jonesy was handed his by his wife who appeared to be stirring a big pot of soup.

[snapper]

Just a tiny point ,but Robert got the Tour Dates from the kid on the bike. Jonesy was handed his by his wife who appeared to be stirring a big pot of soup.

Oop's, my bad. Was this a broth based soup or just your basic beef & vegetable brew,

I'm getting hungry.

[snapper]

Oop's, again.

[Knebby]

Oop's, my bad. Was this a broth based soup or just your basic beef & vegetable brew,

I'm getting hungry.

My sources tell me that it was a potato and leek soup, with a paprika tint. There was Google alert about it this morning.

[Gainsbarre]

My sources tell me that it was a potato and leek soup, with a paprika tint. There was Google alert about it this morning.

Well, hold the Middle East Peace Talks...

The soup news is in...

[Knebby]

Well, hold the Middle East Peace Talks...

The soup news is in...

Am I to assume you didn't get the joke?

[Gainsbarre]

Am I to assume you didn't get the joke?

Am I to assume you didn't get mine?

[Knebby]

Guess so!