Joe Bloggs
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Posts posted by Joe Bloggs
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Its funny, 9 pages or speculation and some out right blame was posted but when I post definitive proof that Stairway was not stolen only two people bother to comment. Where are all those people who were sure it was plagiarized now!?
I don't know, I figured there would be many more people here who would be interested in seeing proof positive of Stairways authenticity.
And the original poster jim6225, disappeared from the website the moment he posted the accusation:
Posted 18 May 2014 - 08:44 AM
Last Active Offline May 18 2014 08:43 AM
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Jimi Hendrix album Axis: Bold as Love has been banned in Malaysia for offending Hindus.
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Jimmy used the same-type of riff previous to the Spirit tour, I don't see how Spirit can claim he heard it after they started touring in late 1968.
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"They recorded their first album, the eponymous 'Cartoone', with Jimmy Page as guest artist on all tracks, using his Telecaster and Gibson custom acoustic. Zeppelin were recording their debut album at the same time."
http://www.rockingscots.co.uk/cartoone.htm
That makes it October 1968, well before the US tour.
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Did Jimmy Page's signature descending guitar figure predate Spirit? We know Jimmy Page recorded with a Scottish band called Cartoone sometime in late 1968. Their album was released in January 1969. My question to the forum is this song:
If it can be proven the recording of this song "Ice Cream Dreams" predates Led Zeppelin's appearance with Spirit on 26th December 1968, the claim Jimmy had heard it from Spirit can be thrown out.
The first mention of Cartoone's album being released is in Billboard magazine, dated 28th December 1968, volume 80, issue 52, page 4.
If anyone has any session recordings by Jimmy Page that predates 1968, that has a similar guitar figure, I'd be interested to hear it.
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You and I, and most people know "Stairway to Heaven" and "Taurus" don't sound exactly the same, however the amount of negative media coverage basically implying otherwise is quite saddening. What is even more disappointing is that many of these stories are distorting the previous cases. Factual errors abound, but because it's now out there in maintream media its almost impossible to correct.
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Ginger Baker returns....
Interviewer: "The Stones just wrapped up a tour. Have you heard them lately or what do you think of how they're playing nowadays?
Baker: (laughs) You're joking right?No.
I mean Charlie is a great friend of mine. I think the world of Charlie. When I was living in the States, Charlie came to see me at my house and he said, "I'd give you some tickets but I know you would never go!" I won't go within 10 miles of a Rolling Stones gig.Why is that?
They're not good musicians, that's why. The best musician in the Stones is Charlie by a country mile.I agree he is. But the way they play together, people argue, is greater than the parts.
People can argue what they like.Do you agree they're great songwriters, though?
No, not really.Are you a fan of the Who?
No. I knew Pete Townshend's dad better than I knew Pete Townshend. I worked with Pete Townshend's dad in the early Sixties and late Fifties. Keith Moon was a friend of mine but I wouldn't say he was a great drummer.Dylan is still on the road.
Is he?Yes. Were you a big Dylan fan?
I'm not a big anybody fan.What was the last record that excited you?
God knows. I don't know. I don't listen to music.That [bassist] Jack Bruce contacted you about another reunion?
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I have that book and can substantiate that Page said he had just gone through a divorce. I didn't think anything of it when I read that because I didn't know anything about the timing of his marriages or serious relationships at the time. You got the impression he was involved with the groupie women along that timeline somewhere as well. Anyway, it was strange in the book where it said he went off with Robert and family to Greece, then left for Sicily to see some property apparently leaving his daughter with Robert and his wife as she was in the car crash. I think this was during the time they had to stay out of the UK due to Tax situation. Reference to daughter being left with Plant & wife and no mention of Charlotte struck me as a little odd.
That can be explained by the fact they were travelling in two cars. Charlotte was in the car with Maureen's sister, following behind Robert's & Maureen's car. It was Charlotte who got help and contacted Richard Cole back at Swan Song in London to notify head office of the accident.
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I'd recommend Celebration Day: The Led Zeppelin Encyclopedia, I thought it was a good read. But it's a reference book and not a biography.
Dude, do you realise that book has copied all its information from wikipedia, including the same errors? What's more it has no entry for Led Zeppelin IV, incredible as it may seem.
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Maybe, but not all of it is common knowledge.
Some of this information could go a long way towards repairing Jimmy Page's image if it was in wider circulation.
I'd still like to verify the release date for Isla Cameron's version of "Blackwaterside". This site says 1959, but this site says 1962. I wonder if one is the UK release date and the other is the US date?
I would also like to know if there were any other recorded versions of the song prior to 1966. I've found 6 so far (Mary Doran, Paddy Doran, Winnie Ryan, Isla Cameron, Liam Clancy, Paddy Tunney) but I've heard rumors of others (Margaret Barry, Michael Cronin?).
And is there any evidence that the song existed prior to 1952? I haven't seen anything.
I take that position as well Scott. More needs to be made of the Isla Cameron - Bert Jansch connection. Far too long just hearing Jansch and his fans harping on about it...
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This whole thread seems to be going back and forth and whether there is certainly about the whole thing is another thing. Now regarding this, could we say..."What came first the chicken or the egg?".
But then again, is this really worth spending this much time upon? Disagree. This thread has been worth it. Scott has certainly opened up some new info leads. No-one is being forced to read this thread.
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This is also a contradictory claim from Briggs. In some interviews, she claims that she was NOT playing the "Bert Jansch guitar parts" in 1966. But in other interviews she implies that Page (and Jansch) owes royalties to her guitarist for creating those parts.
The version she recorded in 1971 (
) definitely has a different guitar part.It's a shame Isla Cameron died in 1980. It would have been good to hear her side of the Blackwaterside story. The whole issue since has been, pardon the pun, murkied by musicians egos.
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By the way, Jansch claims that he got the song from Briggs, who claims that she got the song from a traveling Irish folk singer named Mary Doran. However, this is almost definitely wrong. Jansch's version is actually a note-for-note copy of a 1962 version by Isla Cameron.
I always thought it was ironic that the Bert Jansch fans have criticized Page for copying Jansch, yet no one ever criticizes Jansch for copying Isla Cameron.
Searching this in the library.. There is at least sheet music of an Isla Cameron version from 1960 listed in an English folk music journal from that year. It states it is a sixteenth-century ballad.
My understanding was that Cameron learnt the song from Anne Briggs. Is she did, Brigg's must have learnt it herself sometime soon after those BBC recordings in the early 1950s.
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... there's no evidence of any earlier songs that could have influenced Holmes.
Not so sure. That whole "woman is evil, woman has done me wrong" motif is fairly common in blues music. Also that descending bassline played on an acoustic guitar has been used in folk music before too.
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Al Stewart had seen both Jansch and Anne Briggs perform "Blackwaterside" at the coffee bars in early 1966, before either one of them had recorded the song. Then in June 1966 Stewart did a session with Page and taught the song to Page (according to Stewart).
By the way, Jansch claims that he got the song from Briggs, who claims that she got the song from a traveling Irish folk singer named Mary Doran. However, this is almost definitely wrong. Jansch's version is actually a note-for-note copy of a 1962 version by Isla Cameron.
I always thought it was ironic that the Bert Jansch fans have criticized Page for copying Jansch, yet no one ever criticizes Jansch for copying Isla Cameron.
Yes, not only saw but I'm led to believe Stewart also performed with them in Soho, when he moved to London in 1965.
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I came up with some interesting research on this matter. It is claimed by some critics that Page learnt the arrangement of "Black Mountain Side" off Bert Jansch's record Jack Orion, which has "Blackwaterside". However if you believe Al Stewart's claim that Page learnt the chords while doing session work with him - that claim on Jack Orion can not hold up. Here's why: When Page did session work with Al Stewart for Decca Records and producer Mike Leander, it was in early to mid 1966. The single from those sessions - "The Elf" backed with "Turn Into Earth" was released in August 1966. Jansch's album Jack Orion was not released until September 1966. How could Stewart and Page have learnt the arrangement off Jack Orion, if Page worked with Stewart before that album by Jansch was ever released? It's not possible. Stewart and Page are psychic? I doubt it.
There are two possibilities here: 1) Al Stewart is not telling the truth or is mistaken or 2) Stewart and Page had possibly heard Jansch and Anne Briggs perform in a London club where they played "Blackwaterside", not from any recording, and certainly not from Jack Orion.
If 2 is correct, Wikipedia and a number of critics are wrong. It wasn't based on the Jack Orion arrangement.
But then again, is this really worth spending this much time upon? 
THE BLACK CROWES:
in Other Bands / Music
Posted
Another favourite band gone. Maybe some of the members can team up with Jimmy for another project. Who knows..