Yes and those fossil fuel-powered plants are sooooooooooo much better for that pristine country-side and the organisms that inhabit it.

I was at FYI today (music store in the US, not sure if its in Europe) to buy Raising Sand and was amazed to find a used copy of Mighty Rearranger for $4! I don't, for the life of me, understand why so many LZ fans cannot appreciate Robert's post-LZ work because he has come out with some great stuff and he always goes in a somewhat new direction yet has that awesome bluesy feel. When I think of all those LZ fans who can't get into Robert's solo material, including the poor sap who returned my new CD, I feel bad for them.

I couldn't agree less with that. Michael Jackson contributed way more to humanitarian causes than John Lennon. John Lennon was more of a political activist than a humanitarian. Lennon was important in raising consciousness for tolerance, peace, etc. - he did a couple concerts voicing his disagreement with the Vietnam War, helped organize and obtain the release of John Sinclair from Prison, and his "Give Peace A Chance" became an anthem in the anti-Vietnam war movement. But if you're talking about humanitarianism rather than political activism, compared to all Michael Jackson did for kids and the less fortunate around the world, John Lennon pretty much just strummed his guitar on a bed in Montreal. In terms of the music though - which is what the question in the thread was originally about, I think John Lennon had a bigger impact on rock music while Michael Jackson had a bigger impact on pop music. Both have influenced many other great musicians and had a huge influence on music as a whole.

Michael knew the value of great guitar players - Lukather, Stevens, Van Halen, Batten, and Slash. Since many of those players cite Jimmy Page as an influence, so I don't think its too far a jump to assume Michael probably had respect for Jimmy as well. I'd be interested if anyone had any details on if any of them ever met one another or if Michael ever said anything about them or vice versa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FisCEzJOEPM

1. ...to you a mixed CD is a Led Zeppelin compilation album. 2. ...you have it in you to kill somebody for saying "Neil Peart is the greatest drummer of all time." 3. ...despite being born seven years after they broke up, you know more about Led Zeppelin than your father who lived through their existence as a band. 4. ...you can sing not just the lyrics but also the chords for any Led Zeppelin song. 5. ...you cross out letters in a word just so that it remotely resembles something to do with Led Zeppelin. 6. ...you named a tree in your yard after Percy just so everytime you look your window you can say your looking at a Robert plant. When there are birds out there, it just adds meaning. 7. ...when you hear somebody say "John Paul..." you are dissapointed when somebody finishes with "the Second" instead of "Jones". 8. ...when somebody says anything remotely related to a Led Zeppelin song, in your head you break out singing the song it reminds you of. 9. ...if Charles Manson told you he liked Led Zeppelin, a part of you might say "he's not such a bad guy after all." (the other part of you is of course saying "why am i talking charles manson?") 10. ...you forgive Robert and Jimmy for turning into King Theodon and the Quaker Oats guy, respectively. (I mean that in the most respectful way possible.) 11. ...the coolest thing you've ever seen on the internet was a Youtube clip of John Paul Jones singing "That's the Way" (honestly, what can't that man do?) 12. ...you've debated writing GoodYear to suggest they change their airship. 13. ...you've air-synthesized to Jonesy. 14. ...you know that the truth behind when Keith Richards fell out of a coconut tree a couple years ago was he actually trying to emulate Robert Plant's famous Golden Haired God statement. Though it is likely that Keith is also immortal, due to his lack of hair, it was better that he fell anyway. 15. ...you have "visiting the Elliot Hotel" and "pilgrimmage to Bron-Yr-Aur" on your bucket list. 16. ...you've named your Mazda Protege "The Starship". 17. ...your favorite fish is a red snapper. (sorry) 18. ...you smile every time you see a black dog. 19. ...you rank Mothership as your favorite "Greatest Hits" album of all time, despite the fact that the CD case always breaks on you. 20. ...for Halloween, you and four other die-hard ZepHead friends dressed up as the band and the Swan Song logo (before you ask: skin-colored tights).

Double Post. Sorry.

I'm sorry you feel it's pointless. I've been thinking a lot about it and the effect it had on the band, especially Robert. I always felt that reflection and analysis were positive. You know? It intrigues me to think about how things happened, not just that they happened. History is pretty boring, I think, if you reduce it to a series of events instead of contemplating how things happened - their causes, effects - you know, their significance. I'm confused about the chronology of events you just put forward. I was under the impression that Presence came out in March of 1976 and six months or so later, in September of 1976 The Song Remains the Same came out . More so, wouldn't a tour logically have postponed another record? Aren't bands typically a bit tired on the back-end of a tour and take time off to spend with family and just recharge? Presence is definitely not among their most popular albums but its still a great album. Put it this way, it's as good as any of their albums, to me, and considering they busted it out in the midst of all they were going through in that time, in the recording studio in under 3 weeks, just blows my mind. It doesn't matter to me what other people think of the album. I enjoyed it when I first heard, but my respect for it and the band grew when I realized what chaos they produced it in the midst of. You said it caused a change in perspective, but Led Zeppelin always changed perspective after a while, didn't they? I mean they always incorporated new experiences. They went in a largely acoustic direction after their heavier, successful LZ I and LZ II. They mixed different genres - reggae, funk, Celtic, Arabic, salsa, etc. and made them work instead of just staying with what had worked before with a mere blues and rock focus. I'm not saying the accident in itself was a good thing. Of course it wasn't, but I think Robert grew from it and became more reflective. Wasn't he much cleaner in terms of the sex and drugs post-crash? I'm talking about post-crash. I always took from interviews about when Robert talks about writing and recording material for Presence, that he felt he kind of grew up during that time period because of what he went through. Again, let me be clear. I am not saying that anybody suffering in and of itself is good, but what comes from it, after it, can be. I also wanted to clarify that at the time I made my original post, I guess I wasn't aware of how badly Maureen was hurt until I realized she had been in a coma and that his kids and Jimmy's daughter were in the car so at the end of the day now aware of all that, I too, would now definitely stop the crash from happening. In hindsight, I feel bad about posting this thread because if I had been smart enough to more thoroughly research the accident before I would have been aware of how badly people in it were hurt. I never meant to pose it as a person vs music thing because I knew at the start everybody made it through alive and thought the experience, though horrible, was an important one in Robert's life. I meant for it to be more of a "Do you think stuff happens for a reason?" kind of thing. It really looks sadistic/sick the way I phrased it earlier the more I look at it. Sorry if it came off that way. I didn't mean it to and can't edit it now. Bottom line: I was moved by the song/album and was interested to learn about its genesis/influences. Then I learned about the crash and was interested to learn about how it affected the album and the band. I still believe the crash was an important event in terms of influencing the band and its members (even though I'd stop it). I love Presence, but not enough that I wouldn't spare Robert and his family that pain if I could.

That might be true and if the latter is true, good. However just because a small portion of the French population keeps a gun at home, doesn't necessarily mean that you have a smaller proportion of criminals than anywhere else. Even if you did have a smaller proportion of criminals per populus, it doesn't mean gun ownership had anything to do with it. Criminal amount might not be based on gun ownership. Maybe gun ownership or lack thereof is based on criminal amount or lackthereof. Or the two could be completely unrelated. What it comes down to, at least for me, though is: Even if what you say is true and the premise you seem to be insinuating is true, what if...on the off-chance one of the small amount of criminals picked your house to perpetrate a crime? Would you rather you and your loved ones be hurt or your intruder? Do you put that much trust in your police force and the criminals and fate that you feel you yourself do not need to prepare for the worst possible scenario? I don't mean to sound paranoid and pessimistic, just realistic. Is it possible? I'm not saying expect the worst to happen, but just be prepared if it ever did.

Wait a second...Diane Dimond? Is that you?

Martin Bashir is a jerk. I know the dude has pituitary tumor and while I don't wish any ill on him, he furthered his career by betraying Michael's trust and editing his documentary to make Michael out to be a creep and only correcting himself once Michael died to appease Michael's friends, fans and his own critics.

I don't know if this has ever been posed before and as abstract as I think it is, I kind of wouldn't be surprised if it had given the extent and intensity of Led Zeppelin's fan base. Anyway here it goes. A couple of nights ago I had this weird dream. It was in the third person and it didn't involve me making it even weirder. In this dream I saw Robert's car crash in 1975, which, as many diehard fans may know, severely injured him and is credited for playing a role in inspiring he and Jimmy to write the masterpiece "Achilles Last Stand" (along with his travels in Africa with Jimmy Page). and create the opportunity for them to put together much of the material for Presence instead of going on tour that year. I know a small deal about the crash - something most casual Led Zeppelin fans don't even know occurred, and know small details about the crash like car type, rough location, passengers, and that it really took a physical/emotional toll on Robert, Maureen, and family which many people don't even realize. There's a lot about it I really don't know though - pretty much everything else about it, including what caused it. Anyway, my mind generated a scenario of this crash in my dream - a graphic one - and it really freaked me out, woke me up in the middle of the night, and I couldn't get back to sleep kind of deal. I attribute this dream to me playing the hell out of Presence (after finally coming across it in a small music store and thus completing my collection of Led Zeppelin studio albums) and almost getting into a serious car crash myself while driving home too fast in the rain on the way home from the store. Anyway, I got to thinking today about having that dream and wondered...if I were able to somehow get ahold of Doc Brown's DeLorean and go back in time to August 4th, 1975 and could prevent the crash from happening somehow, would I? I mean Achilles Last Stand is an amazing song and quite honestly it is a favorite LZ track of mine, if not the favorite. I've been pondering the subject trying to weigh the pros and cons of stopping the crash and letting it happen. I keep feeling it'd be mad selfish to allow somebody to wreck a car and seriously get hurt - I've read Maureen was very seriously hurt, almost to the point where it was uncertain whether she'd make it or not, but she pulled through and Robert healed. On one hand, I want to say that because I would know that nobody died because of the crash so it'd be a no ultimate harm - no foul situation by letting it happen and my favorite song would exist in the future. Also remember the accident kept them off a tour in 1975 and let them write the material for Presence, a great album. What if Led Zeppelin had toured and never put together that album or the songs on it? Say goodbye to Achilles Last Stand as you know it and possibly other tracks, include For Your Life and Nobody's Fault But Mine. On the other hand though, it's only a song/album and you'd be facilitating a situation in which people, (including if, you're like me, one of your favorite singers and his family) would be put through a life-threatenening (although future would already be written, and thus not a life-taking) situation and months of physical/emotional duress. What would you do? For me, I hate myself for saying it but I think it's a tough call. If I could stop the inspiration for "All of Love" I'd do it in a heartbeat because every time I hear that song and think about the meaning behind it, I'm crushed... but I don't know about "Achilles Last Stand" and the whole Presence album. So. What do you do? 1. Stop the crash by any means necessary. 2. Let the crash occur. Edit after the fact: I know that there are more important unfortunate events that one should probably try alter if this "Final Countdown"/"Back to the Future" situation could ever possibly take place, but if you're in this one, what do you do and why?

Wow! Hat Trick! Pun Nicely Done!

Actually, John Lennon's famous Jesus Christ comment was specifically parodied much earlier in this thread. See Page 2 of this thread, specifically Post 36 by Moonmaid. I read through the whole discussion hoping nobody else caught onto it so I could discreetly praise it... only to have my hopes dashed in the last 2 posts of a 14 page discussion when its brought up by somebody who misinterpreted a post with similar wording! Curses! Not a complete loss however, being as there were many good, thought-provoking posts that shared and articulated sentiments, both mine and others, that I was able to read along the way. Good post, Moonmaid, and everybody else, great thread!

After reading that article from The Sun, I just had to laugh. Robert Plant has said on numerous occasions that his concerns about Led Zeppelin's legacy, besides his respect for John Bonham and his fear of being stereotyped as a hard rock frontman, are mainly why he isn't keen to do another reunion, much less tour. So naturally AEG intends to call him up and ask him what he thinks about getting back together with the boys to alternate the role of Michael Jackson's replacement with ABBA at the O2 in order to bail out some recording company. I would love to just watch Robert take that phone call. I see him either reduced to tears because he's laughing so hard or simply hanging up. Nobody ever mentions this behind Robert's reasoning for not touring again with Led Zeppelin, but I actually think Elvis has a lot to do with it. As I'm sure anybody even remotely familiar with Robert's appreciation for early rock and blues music knows, Elvis was huge influence on Robert, among many other legendary musicians. I think Robert, who met Elvis with Zeppelin a time or two in the 70s, saw, even then, how stuck Elvis was in a parody of himself as some sort of side show attraction. I think, and it's just a theory, that even though Robert's did and continues to admire Elvis, that he told himself way back then, "I'm not going to end up like this." So Robert doing a series of concerts anywhere seems unlikely because it bares too great a similarity to Elvis' run in Las Vegas.