RT is Russia Times, a government propaganda outlet. It is not an independent news source. "John Osbourne" is using some classic disinformation techniques, along with some more current disinformation techniques: One classic technique he is using is asking questions instead of supplying data. The purpose is to cast doubt in the readers' minds. He doesn't have verifiable data for his lies, but the questioning, if done enough, confuses the audience. This technique is as old as the hills. A second classic technique is the simple changing of the subject or diverting from the main point. In recent times this has been dubbed "whataboutism." We all know that the Azov Battalion is a far right group. This is not relevant to the fact that Russia started an unprovoked war against Ukraine. A more current technique that he is using is repeating catch phrases and slogans that imply the existence of vast conspiracies. In recent times, due to economic and social stressors and technological changes, the end of the Fairness Doctrine in journalism, and the rise of demagogues empowered by modern communications technologies, a faction of the U.S. has become vulnerable to outlandish conspiracy theories. They are aware that photos and even video can be altered, so they stop trusting what they see and hear and become confused and frightened. They are then preyed upon by people with various agendas, whose message is, "You can't believe them. Therefore you should believe me." Although the majority of people do not fall for this, because they ask themselves the simple question "What's in it for him?" many fall for the conspiracy theories because they feel powerless in their lives and they want to believe that there's some sort of conspiracy of the powerful plotting against them. Some of these catch phrases include "the mainstream media" or "MSM." But who/what exactly does this refer to? The points of view of Fox News and the Guardian newspaper are quite different; are they both "the mainstream media"? The phrase "the mainstream media" is never defined. Again, the tactic is not to supply data, but to generate fear and confusion with innuendo.

Not one single thing you say here is true. Do you really think satellite imagery could be faked and fed to a major news organization? How do you know the bodies weren't bloated? What animals would have eaten them, the pet dogs run wild? Squirrels? This was a town, not a wildlife preserve. How do you know what's in the Russian arsenal or where it was fired from? The Russians have missiles that can cross continents; this isn't World War I. The people killed may have been ethnically "Russian" but they were Ukrainian citizens. Where is this footage of the Azov Battalion killing hostages? Perhaps you could post that too, along with your scientific evidence of faked satellite imagery.

The Ukrainian defense minister has an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal that I thought was interesting: Oleksii Reznikov April 21, 2022 1:07 pm ET Kyiv, Ukraine The world was horrified by the mass killing of innocent civilians in Bucha. Russian soldiers violated all existing rules and laws of war, raping children and torturing women and men, shooting them execution style. Similar crimes were committed in Kharkiv, Mariupol, Chernihiv and in Kramatorsk, where Russian forces fired a Tochka-U ballistic missile on a railway station filled with 4,000 civilians, mostly women and children. SUBSCRIBE Among the casualties of Russia’s war on Ukraine has been the postwar system of global order and security. Russia has done everything that the international security institutions were created to prevent. How can the United Nations Security Council, on which Moscow has a permanent seat, live up to its mission to maintain peace? What kind of security and cooperation is possible on the Continent when one participating state of the Organization for Cooperation and Security in Europe has attacked another and killed thousands of civilians? These organizations have failed. Like the League of Nations before them, they must be replaced by a new and more effective set of international institutions capable of serving the interests of all countries, not only those of the great powers. The architecture of this new system should be based on Ukraine’s experience. In 1994 we gave up the world’s third-largest nuclear arsenal, hoping that the signatures of world leaders on a document meant something. But in April 2008, Germany and France blocked Ukraine’s accession to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. The Kremlin got the message. In August 2008 Russia invaded Georgia and the world turned a blind eye. In 2014 Russia attacked Ukraine and the world decided not to intervene. Now Russian bombs are erasing our cities from the earth and the world has been unable to stop it. NEWSLETTER SIGN-UP Opinion: Morning Editorial Report All the day's Opinion headlines. PREVIEW SUBSCRIBE All this could have been prevented. Had the West imposed preventive sanctions on Russia and provided Kyiv with a sufficient number of defensive weapons—primarily air and missile defense systems—tens of thousands of Ukrainians would still be alive today. The Western response to the invasion has been too slow. As President Volodymyr Zelensky has said, the global response to a crisis of this sort should be immediate, within 24 hours, not after weeks or months. Any aggressor must face irreversible punishment through a mechanism of preventive measures—so called deferred sanctions that can be approved in peacetime and take effect automatically. Russia’s aggression against Ukraine has created almost four million refugees. We are on the brink of a global food crisis that could destabilize Africa and the Middle East. Until Russia is stopped, the crisis will only grow, pulling in neighbors and contributing to the collapse of economies. We always hear the echoes of the past in the present. I’ve never liked traitors or cockroaches. Even when I was a child, both filled me with disgust. Eventually I came to terms with cockroaches and no longer take offense at their existence, but my feelings for traitors haven’t changed. This is the core of who I am, and of many people around me these days. You can’t go back on your word. You can’t run when your country needs you. You can’t betray your friends. I make dozens of calls every day, communicating with friends and colleagues from different countries. I really want to believe that everyone I speak with has values that they won’t betray under any circumstances. If you consider friendship one of those values, and you consider yourself a friend of Ukraine, please realize that time is running out. We need your help, and we need it now. Primarily we need heavy weapons to defend and liberate Russian-occupied territories. I know that these weapons can be sourced quickly from different countries. All that’s needed is the will to do so. If you give us these weapons, you will show the world that you are not afraid to confront evil. We also need a total global embargo on Russian oil and gas. We need real sanctions against Russia’s banking system and trade. If you give us all this, Russian invaders will be gone from Ukraine in a few months. If you don’t, the war will drag on, and the terrorist state of the Russian Federation will destroy the reputations of global leaders and encourage other rogues to test their strength. The flames of the war can spread to other countries at any moment because Vladimir Putin won’t stop in Ukraine. A Ukrainian victory is the only outcome that will force Russia to rethink its strategy of aggression. We can do it. We have already proved our bravery. We just need the tools. Once the job is done we can get down to the important business of building a new world security architecture free from the structural defects of the past.

The way this must end is: 1. Decisive military defeat of Russia. This will only happen if the U.S. continues to supply weapons. 2. Putin removed. Hopefully with a decisive military defeat, his circle will decide they've had enough. We should ignore the nuclear threats. I find it hard to believe the Russian military would allow anyone to push the button, because presumably they want to live. I know some are advocating that we allow Putin to emigrate. I suppose if that's necessary, we have to do it. Then maybe someone can find a way to murder him. As I said, our politicians need to know the people are behind them. I have written and called to my Senators' offices and written to the White House. We should have sent weapons faster, but better late than never.

There are hundreds of journalists from all over the world in Ukraine, plus satellite images, so there is no doubt what is going on there. I know the Russians here do not want to believe it, because facing the truth is too painful for them. The word "atrocity" is not a legal term. But there is no doubt war crimes have occurred in Ukraine. People do not chop off their own legs in order to contribute to "propaganda." They don't bomb their own houses. They don't beat themselves to make bruises all over their bodies and they don't tie their hands behind their backs and shoot themselves in the head. The main issue though is that Russia launched an unprovoked invasion of another country. In addition to this being a "wag-the-dog" operation to distract from the kleptocracy going on in Russia, a democracy on Russia's border also threatens the kleptocracy/autocracy because it could give ordinary Russians ideas. And of course democracy anywhere is threatening to the other autocracies such as China...

This is an absurd conspiracy theory. But since you are from MORDOR, it's unlikely you actually believe this; more likely that you are doing your boss's bidding to come here and be a troll for MORDOR.

There are plenty of Americans, who I understand you have not met in person, who have been disturbed by our relationship with Saudi Arabia for a long time. I believe it will change.

I agree with Bong Man for once, we are not going to see a neat conclusion to this anytime soon. The US and NATO should have realized that there inevitably would be a conflict with Russia and we should have been better prepared. After the fall of the Soviet Union we were obsessed with nuclear non-proliferation because we were terrified a terrorist group would get hold of a nuclear weapon. Like that was the worst thing that could happen! We somehow thought that without "communism" the Soviet Union would become a Western-style democracy, with fair elections and politicians who had to win votes. We thought the people would become interested in consumerism and would want good relations with the West. But Russia has never had a democratic government and the Russian people have been ruled by despots of one type or another for 1,000 years. They don't understand our type of government because they have never had it. They think a strongman in power is the only way to have strength. They have developed a kind of national Stockholm Syndrome.

Ukraine is very definitely a country. If you are going to make an accusation, you had better have some facts to back it up.

I'm afraid mankind's inhumanity will affect you whether you are reminded of it on a message board or not.

I was one of hundreds of thousands of people who protested the war in Iraq before it began, so to answer your question "did anyone care when we bombed Baghdad." Don't you remember that, or are you under 25?

I was also surprised to see that no one had started a thread on this topic, so I did it. Surely you didn't mean to imply I thought the war started yesterday?? I don't visit here often anymore. Putin needs to be stopped now precisely so that he does not continue and escalate to a nuclear war or any war with NATO. Defending a country against invasion is not an "act of aggression." We and the Ukrainians have managed to weaken Russia through sanctions and through the defense of Ukraine; now we need to continue and step up the game, so that the Russian people realize this was a grievous error, and hopefully manage to dislodge Putin one way or another. Putin has been waging a war against the US for a long time; it's a war of disinformation and division. Russia has interfered in our electoral process, stoked racial divisions in this country etc. Putin sees the West as an enemy. Also he and his cronies stole a trillion dollars from the Russian people and one theory is that this war is his attempt to shore up his popularity through stoking nationalism, to provide a distraction from the ransacking of the country by him and his oligarch pals. That theory sounds credible to me. I'm not sure he is a madman, although he is grandiose and characterologically disturbed. People thought Hitler could be negotiated with. This grave mistake was based on a misreading of who Hitler was. Neville Chamberlain thought that Hitler was a politician just like him. People like Hitler and Putin are not deal-making, backslapping, vote-getting Western politicians; they are dictators. I would like to believe we have all learned from history. The way you stop a bully is to act immediately. Study not only war but acts of violence in general and this is clear. Were you joking when you suggested a Russian here could give us insight on this war? The Russians are only able to access information other than government propaganda if they use Tor or a VPN. Then they have to face the reality that their government is a kleptocracy as well as a police state. I wonder if it is too much emotionally for many of them and it's just easier to live in a delusion. Those that understand the truth are mostly terrified. Many have fled, to Istanbul, to Yerevan in Armenia, or elsewhere.

I imagine you are all as horrified as I am by Russia's invasion of Ukraine. There are a few ways to help: You can contact Biden and your Senators to ask for more arms for Ukraine; they need more heavy artillery, anti-aircraft systems, and tanks and aircraft. You could also donate to help refugees; there are many organizations. I found out it's also possible to donate directly to the Ukrainian military. Time is running out. Nova Ukraine is an organization based here in Northern California and their website has a lot of info: Home | Nova Ukraine

I just bought two tickets to see McCartney. I hope it's worth it.

Reincarnations - IMDb

I always wondered what Tony smelled like. He continues to be an inspiration to me with the way he bounces back from every adversity.

I was wondering if anyone might know the answer to this: I read elsewhere on the internet that J.R.R. Tolkien encouraged Zep to use his books for inspiration. I've read the Humphrey Carpenter biography of Tolkien and it does not mention this. Has anyone come across information that would verify this? It seems unlikely to me because there is no evidence Tolkien listened to rock music at all. I think he mainly listened to his wife play the piano.

I remember 1976 very well. "Nobody's Fault But Mine" was played a fair amount on the radio. "Achilles' Last Stand" I heard a few times.

So sad; I've always felt that when the Stones start dying off, it will be the beginning of the end of civilisation as we've known it.

Has anyone else seen the album documentaries on Amazon Prime? You can find them under "Classic Albums." So far I've located two Zep documentaries, one on IV and one on Physical Graffiti. The Physical Graffiti one was interesting. I think they were both done some years ago, but I've never seen them before. I've also viewed one on Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours" and Deep Purple's "Machine Head." I liked the Fleetwood Mac one.

What am I doing wrong with my links?

I wanted to start a Samantha Fish thread. Check out her guitar solo in this video. Her singing has improved imo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPWay64IgMc

So I see a few artists are broadcasting their home jams! Andrew Stockdale's been doing this on Facebook (acoustic) and someone I like named Emily Wolfe is in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hhKOgdeJaM&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1mwtHFZbfYFUjoIyzpvc4AUpVUlJccxv0tuEfVVi8f4oXJSP5d5xhdpCs

Browsing through this thread I see some people here have complaints. I saw G'n'R at Madison Square Garden in October 2017. They were kick ass! It was one of the best shows I've ever been to. They played three and a half hours with no opening act, were on time, and definitely knew where they were. They did their major and minor hits, some tunes I wasn't familiar with, and a bunch of covers. Yes, it was expensive--maybe around $375 altogether. I was thinking of getting a ticket to their new tour, but I'm afraid it couldn't possibly top the last one.

STH would get no airplay today. Good Times Bad Times, on the other hand, would probably get a few spins.