Theres a lot of good stuff but honestly I think 10 Ribs really stands out for me, one of the best "unreleased" tracks I'v ever heard(next to Dennis Wilson's Holy Man), maybe started out as an atempt to recreate the 75 No Quater jams in the studio but it really has evolved into its own thing. I have to say it as well, I think Presense would have be better if they'd included it instead of Royal Orleans and Candy Store Rock, maybe not a typical Zep track but I do think in keeping with the rather "epic" tone on that album.

I do suspect as well that a big factor remain that Page whats the Zep official brand to still be a mark of quality and for the band to still retain some of the mystery.. The companion disks move somewhat away from that but still they tend to stick to material thats pretty well formed, not very early run thoughts most of the time either alternatives takes/mixes or would be songs that progressed quite awhile.

Its definitely less energetic than the version a couple of nights before which is probably as up tempo jazzy as it ever got but I do think it still works well personally, Page being less dominant does I think leave more room for JPJ to build up the mood which makes it really dramatic which is I'd guess part of why so many people love it, feels part way between the jazzier versions and the more classical ones from EC. In terms of JPJ personally I think his best ever performance in it is from 23/5 at EC., the solo section really does feel incredibly grand and atmospheric.

Yep I do think this is a very significant factor thats typically overlooked, a lot of the playing that people put down to "sloppiness" really I think is deliberate, most obviously in the three piece jam section of No Quarter which is obviously looking to shift more towards jazz rock. I do wonder as well if this doesnt also explain some of the shift in tone in the latter Zep years and especially in 75? moving towards a harsher sound that arguably highlights this element of his playing more. You can I think definately make a case it suited some songs better than others, most obviously songs recorded in the latter era tend to suit it well but I think it does make an interesting alternative for stuff like No Quarter and Dazed plus solos in songs like Over the Hills are IMHO livened up by it, Stairway I would tend to agree cna get a bit patchy as I think its solo really does depend more on fluid speed and this kind of playing can get in the way of that.

I actually think part of the issue was just how good Jimmy was previously, he could basically play in a very loose and often improvised fashion but still retain the tightness needed for a song like Stairway. That meant that when he experienced a bit of a dropoff any weaknesses were MUCH more obvious than in a band who would just play tight rehearsed versions of songs. I think you see Page himself maybe realised that after 77 and I think you see for the 79 comeback shows he's playing tighter and more rehershed, good in one way but also I do think it loses something of the magic of Zep at their best and I'd take the better 77 shows over the Knedworth first night for example. It does mean as well that generally I preffer the songs that are naturally a bit looser in 75-77, DAC. NQ, TU, IMTOD, etc I also think that explains the "under rehearsed" criticism of the band as well, after a period away they were often less impressive(even in the earlier years) and I think part of that is that they depended on having a strong feel for each other which isn't easy to regain quickly, not a question of "just learning the songs". You listen to the band at their absolute peak and they are almost telepathic, my favourite example would be Communication Breakdown from 29/9/71and how perfectly Bonham and Jones follow Page though several unique shifts. That's not I'd imagine something that's easy to pick up and retain without playing together a lot.

In retrospect I think they would have been better off putting 10 ribs on the album, maybe on side one instead of RO, shift that to side two and drop CSR entirely(or as a B-side in the US). Besides being IMHO up their with the bands best work(can't think of any other "lost" tracks as good, maybe Dennis Wilson's Holy Man) I think it would actually fit the album better. Its obviously very different in sound to the hard rock of much of the rest of it but it does have the same epic atmosphere as ALS, FYL and TFO plus I think diversity of sound was always a big part of Zep's appeal. As mentioned 10 ribs was almost certainly an attempt to record something along the lines of the later 75 versions of NQ, the versions from Earls Court on the 2nd and 3rd night especially.

Hendrix himself stated that surf rock was a big influence on him didn't he? around the same time as well Syd Barrett was playing some very loud/disordered guitar on tracks like Interstellar Overdrive. I do think Page was much closer to Hendrix than the likes of Clapton were, how much of that was influence of the latter on the former and how much was the two of them having similar influences is hard to say. Both I think valued classic rock n roll and RnB(and proto funk like James Brown) just as highly as they did blues and were obviously more open to expenaise psychedelic sounds. Theres obviously a lot unique in Zep as well but earlier on especially I think you could argue they were filling the gap left by Hendrix inactivity and then death.

Interesting compilation definitely, i'll try to get around to giving it a listen. I suspect actually if this was going to happen officially it would have replaced TSRTS, maybe a quad album with one disk each for RAH 1970, LA 72, MSG 73 and EC 75. That could actually have balanced quite nicely with each disk having one side of shorter tracks and an epic on the other side. RAH 70 Side 1 - Were Gonna Groove, I Can't Quit You, Communication Breakdown, Bring It On Home Side 2 - How Many More Times LA 72 Side 1 - Immigrant Song, Heartbreaker, Black Dog, Over The Hills and Far Away Side 2 - Whole Lotta Love MSG 73 Side 1- Rock and Roll, The Ocean, Since I'v Been Loving You, Stairway to Heaven Side 2 - Dazed and Confused EC 75 Side 1 - Trampled Underfoot, In My Time of Dying, That's The Way, Going to California Side 2 - No Quarter

An underrated one is the 9/10/72 in Osaka, quite unique with most up tempo rockabilly stuff in it. Generally though I think mid/late 71 was really the peak for the extended medley versions were they hit the kind of level they had reached with HMMT in 1970. Some good Japanese and US ones mentioned but also some from the UK winter tour, 25/11/71 in Leicester is superb IMHO and the best version of Going Down they ever did. The Euro 73 versions are great as well, obviously less spontaneous in terms of what they include but incredibly energetic.

Although I think this CD actually has a lot of the stuff on it that benefits most from a quality SB, stuff like NQ and DAC I enjoyed a lot already.

Going back to this after a good while spent with "10 ribs" I am actually coming around the idea it could have worked quite well in Presense. Yes its very different in soundin some regards to the rest of the albums heavy guitars BUT I would say it seems to fit into the more "stately" and less funky style of that album, perhaps better than tracks like Royal Orleans and Candy Store Rock. You listen to Tea for One especially and I think you can a similar sense of space and atmosphere. I could imagine a track listing with say side one ALS, FYL and 10 Ribs(with a proper name) and then FTBM, HOFN and TFO on side two. That to me would potentially make for a more individual album that would stand apart more from the bands previous work. As for the idea behind the song I would say its pretty obviously an outgrowth of the latter 75 No Quarter jams but pushed into a much tighter composition and kept more focused on the piano work.

I can kind of see both points of view though, its certainly not "bad" and is probably the slickest of the versions from EC but its also lacking a bit of spark to it. The version from the 18th has more grace to it IMHO and the 23rd has one of JPJ most atmospheric solo's. I do always tend to go back to the 27/3 in LA though, maybe not the most energetic version ever much I think the best constructed with the jam just building and building in intensity, I think it actually helps a bit that Page isn't lighting it up though out as it gives JPJ a bit more space.

I think that is quite a good situation to end up in though as the majority of the material the less hardcore fan might want to hear is on the LZ 1 and Coda bonuses disks rather than forcing them to buy all the albums for 2-3 tracks on each. Its hard to know for sure what to think of course before we know Page's long term plans, if this was it for extra Zep then stuff like say an extended NQ from Earls Court really should have been included but if we see an extended release of those concerts then it makes much more sense not to.

Yeah I do tend to agree, I think there not really intended to be "interesting rarities" so much as alternate albums which I think does explain why a lot of stuff was held back for the Coda release which was obviously always intended to be more of the former. I do actually find myself enjoying the Presense bonus disk beyond 10 Ribs/Pod quite a bit dispite it being very similar to the stuff on the original album, the less echoey rougher sound does I think work well with the material.

Honestly after LZ1 putting out the excellent Paris concert officially I did tend to view alot of what came afterwards as a bit of a disappointment bar some gems like Pod but what I would say is that the Coda reissue justifies things somewhat in retrospect. The bonus disks for that reissue include alot of stuff I thought should have been included on the earlier albums bonus disk plus of course some stuff I didn't know about like the earlier Levee. The impression I get is that beefing up Coda was actually a big focus for Page from the start, it has afterall always been the Zep album held in lowest regard. You could also argue this is a more generous move in terms of the fans, alot of non hard-core listeners after all might not own Coda at all and now to hear alot of the best material in these reissues they just need to buy one new album rather than 9 albums they already own. Not perfect as there is some stuff like Pod, Jennings,the other EVerbody Makes it Though, etc that's very interesting on the other reissues but still I'm sure Coda alone will be enough for many. Meanwhile the other versions with smaller differences are there for the more hardcore fans who likely have an interest in them.

Stevie playing jazz does still sound like Stevie to me though where as I do think theres a more significant divide in sound(beyond FX/tone)with Page playing different styles, his folk playing really doesn't sound at all like his bluesy playing for example. Not sure I'v say Stevie had more "feeling" so much as the two of them tended to be aiming at rather different results, Page was generally either going for power/drama or very relaxed folk where as Stevie was naturally much more playful/friendly.

Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking those shows, they are very good and preferable to some Zep performances for me but still I think they are much more obviously rehearsed and lacking in the same wild power as the better 77 shows still had.

You seem to hold up "shredder" as the ultimate standard to meet but I and many others would disagree with that. I think theres a clear trade off in moving to a more rehearsed style rather than the looser one we saw up to 77, less energy and sense of wildness/unpredictability to the performance. As has been mentioned if you listen to the acoustic set in 77 and Page was most certainly capable of playing in a slicker fashion but chose not to for the electric material. Its I think this looser style that needed him in his best form to carry off most effectively hence the results becoming patchier with longer layoffs between touring and issues with injuries/drugs. Still though for me when it did come off even by 77 I think the results are superior that anything we've heard since, I'll definitely take say the LA 77 shows over any Page and Plant 98 show.

I don't think it was just a case of Page being committed to how the shows looked visually but also of being committed to a certain playing style up to and including the 77 tour. Zep had always had the "tight but loose" seat of your pants style of playing rather than something more rehearsed yet as you got to the bands latter years I think you were often dealing with material that made this less suitable. There was some decline as well but I think you can see in 79 for example a switch towards a more rehearsed style and performance(at least the Denmark shows and the first Knedworth) that are considerably more polished. I have to say though that when it comes to listening to a lot of material I prefer 77, there are obviously limited shows from 79 but if that year had involved a big tour I'm not sure I'd be greatly interested in hearing more than 3-4 shows anyway, the same with the P&P tours. I can imagine it being similar for Page playing, the looser style was probably more fulfilling to play night after night.

Theres another nice error/bonus as well, the 72 sub box comes not with the listed remix of Obscured by Clouds but actually with a stereo CD version of the remastered live at Pompei tracks(including a bonus unrealised second take on Careful With That Axe), you get the Obscured remix in a little wallet instead and both fit into the CD tray nicely. I'd guess the band almost decided to release both of these things, desided against it and just blocked out the 5.1 Meddle and the production made a mistake removing the Obscured by Clouds remix rather than the Pompeii CD.

Less so Moby Dick(although 25/3/75 is my favourite version of it) but I definitely get into the mode of listening to loads of 75 versions of No Quarter and Dazed, especially the 2nd half of the US tour and EC. Moreso than any other era I think the bands efforts were focused on those two epics in 75 plus I think they also represent something different to the rest of there career. The jazz/classical/rock fusion in NQ obviously but Dazed I think became much more about atmosphere in 75, rather different from the hypercharged 73 versions. Zep's folky and indeed poppy side is often mentioned as an alternative to there image just as hard rock monsters but these 75 tracks show you they also went quite far down the path of prog, albeit more akin to say Pink Floyd that the tasteless excesses of the likes of ELP.

The guitar playing on this track from John Cale's Live/Sabotage album from 79 always reminds me of mid/late 70's Page...

The most obvious point I think is just how early LZ1 actually came out. Its easy to just read 69 and think it wasn't really that far ahead of say Sabbaths debut or Deep Purple In Rock but actually its well over a year before either.

The Winterland show from 26/4/69. The following night's SB is great(especially How Many More Times) but I actually think I preffer this audience recording. Much better quality than its typically rated(slightly distorted but with a real kick to it) and I really think it gets across the sheer power of this era much successfully with Page's guitar especially sounding incredible. My favourite versions of most of the blues tracks but I think its the ending of As Long As I Have You and the first WLL that really makes it especial, maybe the most powerful Zep ever sounded.