IpMan
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Posts posted by IpMan
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I believe the best defense is to bring out the sheet music and have a professor of music from a well known university or school such as Julliard or Cornell, testify and bear witness to the numerous compositions which use the same or very similar lament bass figure going back to the 17th century. Then, whip out Pachalbel's Canon in D major and the more than 200 contemporary pop songs using the exact same figure since 1961 to explain how a figure of music arranged differently is not the same as stealing said music.
It would be one thing if Page used the full four measures of the lament bass used for Taurus in the same fashion, but we are talking only FOUR NOTES of the first measure out of four for Taurus and five for STH. The whole lawsuit is ridiculous and if Zep win, I hope this sets precedence for future cases. I mean, whats next, some unknown asshole from 1973 sues Captain & Tennille for Muskrat Love because of the use of the word Muskrat? Enough is enough.
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On May 16, 2016 at 11:45 AM, badgeholder said:
The jury will only go by sheet music? Not actually playing the songs? That seems crazy in a case like this.
Either way it would prove the point in Zeps favor. The sheet music shows how different the arpeggio structure of each measure is, and the main point which is Taurus is ONLY a descending riff pattern, STH is a descending first, followed by ascending second and third, finishing with descending fourth & fifth measures. That is a very different structure and becomes glaringly obvious with sheet music and show the only true similarity lay in the first four notes of the first measure ONLY. I would look at this as a move in the right direction for the Zep team.
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4 hours ago, Balthazor said:
Well that sounds like a real stretch to me. Certainly guitarists had been using distortion and effects long before Hendrix came along, and Dave Davies' guitar tone in "You Really Got Me" practically set the standard for the rock guitar distortion sound, not to mention the pioneering guitar effects and technique utilized by The Ventures in the early 60's. You could argue that he pushed the envelope in this respect, but to say he was the first, that's grasping at straws.
That's why I said "to such a degree." Hendrix was in fact, the first guitarist in the public eye to do such acrobatics and sound effects in the ways he did. At least as far as I know, I may be wrong so if someone has examples of another guitarist going what Jimi did before Jimi, please let me know.
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7 hours ago, kingzoso said:
Jimi Hendrix did not invent the Electric Guitar. I do not know how or where you came to that conclusion. The first Electric Guitar was first modernized by Les Paul. Les Paul may not have actually invented the Electric Guitar but he was one of, if not the first, to make the Electric Guitar a modern staple that would eventually change the course of History.
I believe Rover meant that Jimi re-invented how electric guitar was played and could be played. Jimi was the first to go batshit with the tremolo, he was the first to use distortion & effects to such a degree to obtain the sound he wanted. He was the first guitarist who could play well that also projected such intensity & sexuality to the crowd. Clapton & McCartney were just as blown away by Jimi's stage presence as they were by his virtuosity.
Jimi was the triple threat as a guitarist akin to the triple treat in theatre, Jimi could play very, very well, he could write, and he could project. No other guitarist before him could do all three, not even close.
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11 hours ago, chef free said:
Jimi played sitar. Cherokee mist, 1968.
Plus, unlike Jimmy, Jimi used his dick...behind his back. No picks for Jimi. That man knew how to play BALLSY!
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On May 9, 2016 at 11:49 AM, KellyGirl said:
Another witness for Plaintiff side. I summarized it.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/311969841/Francis-Malofiy-Declaration-Skidmore-v-Led-Zeppelin-Stairway-to-Heaven-lawsuit
https://www.scribd.com/doc/311969840/Order-Granting-Plaintiff-s-Motion-For-Leave-Skidmore-v-Led-Zeppelin-Stairway-to-Heaven-lawsuit
On April 19, 2016, Plaintiff Michael Skidmore ("Skidmore") received an unsolicited email from
an English rock and roll photographer by the name of Mike Ware. That email is attached as
Exhibit 1 to this Declaration. He informed Mr. Skidmore that he attended a Spirit show in 1970
at Mothers Club at Birmingham, England, at which time he saw Plant seated in the first row of
the arena as a fan watching Spirit perform. In his email to Skidmore, Ware wrote: "Truth will
out, and I think that Plant and Page have dug a very big hole by lying about their relationship
with Spirit. They were big fans, as I witnessed in 1970 at Mothers Club, Birmingham because
Robert Plant was in the front row watching the band." Ware told Plaintiff’s counsel on the
phone that Plant was "thoroughly enjoying himself."
On April 20, 2016, Plaintiff’s counsel contacted Mr. Ware to seek to verify whether his version of
events was credible. Mr. Ware provided numerous details that led counsel to conclude he was
telling the truth, including that he specifically remembered the show because he hitchhiked
over 100 miles to get to Mothers Club with a friend and that the friend took ill after the first
song and spent the night in the bathroom. Mr. Ware also accurately described the layout of
Mothers Club. Mr. Ware informed Plaintiff’s counsel that he is willing to testify at the trial but
he is an elderly gentleman who lives in England and suffers from Parkinson’s disease, which
makes it impossible for him to travel.
IT IS HEREBY ORDEREDThat Plaintiff’s Motion be and hereby is GRANTED and that Plaintiff may take the videotape
deposition of Michael Ware or in the alternative have Mr. Ware testify by way of video
conference at trial.
**********************************************************************************
The mans word is gospel because 1) while watching Robert, Robert never looked bored, 2) his
friend used the bathroom a lot that night, 3) he can describe the layout of the club -
therefore it must mean Jimmy and Robert stole the intro to Stairway.
Whatever Francis...
Was Robert Plant that big of a rockstar in '70 that somebody would've been paying attention
to his body language and facial expressions at a small gig 45+ years ago and remembering? If
this was even a couple years later in the 70s when Zeppelin became H U G E, I could see someone
'watching' Robert. And do people not ever 'fake' having a good time? Or maybe he looked like that
because he had a good buzz going on.I'm sure the guy is being honest per se, but the testimony
sounds a bit silly. What happens if somebody can also 'prove' being there, yet says they remember
Robert Plant looking bored ZZzzz?Big question, after 45 years how could he be sure it was Robert? Bigger question (not wanting to come off as a dick), the man has Parkinson's, a disease which affects both memory and general cognition. Any lawyer would nullify this testimony based on those facts alone.
What's next? They gonna drag out the 105 year old cleaning lady from the Chateau Marmot who will testify she saw Robert pass Randy California in the hall in 1968?
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6 hours ago, Balthazor said:
I just listened to both twice each, and I guess it's just a matter of taste, but they just don't do much for me. Hendrix often comes off to me as noise and slop. But perhaps it's like Picasso, some people look at a Picasso and see genius, others see noise and slop.
No worries, its all subjective in the end
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4 hours ago, The Rover 75 said:
"Totally agree with you on Clapton though. He does what he does well, but that's ALL he does. Dude bores me to tears. "
That's the only part of what you said I would agree with.
We really shouldn't compare the 2, both solid choices, Balthazor give the Hendrix catalog more of a listen, you may like what you hear.
To me the consummate songs which scream Hendrix at his peak are Voodoo Chile & Machine Gun. This is stripped down Jimi, playing jazz influenced blues without all the flash and effects he made commonplace on Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love. This was Jimi moving into a new phase, reinventing himself. His next move was a collaboration with Miles Davis which was sadly cut short and never come to fruition. If you listen to Machine Gun in particular you will see exactly where Beck & Robin Trower got their direction & inspiration from for their amazing 70's solo catalogs, they just took different aspects. I would say the whole of the Band of Gypsies album is pure brilliance.
Page & Hendrix, two fantastic guitarists. Its like comparing chocolate to mocha...it's ALL good!
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Would it not be ironic that if the Stairway lawsuit is dismissed, the Davey Graham Trust goes after the Randy California Trust for copyright infringement for Cry Me a River? That would be some serious Karma there.
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Was that a left-handed compliment?
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I cannot believe this, he was so young and he just performed a concert less than a week ago and partied as well. I hear he became deeply spiritual in the last 15 years and neither drank nor used drugs so this is strange. Prince has always been in my top 5...Zeppelin, Floyd, Prince, Queen, Parliament, however IMO Prince was the single most talented musician of the past 60 years. Not only was he a prolific writer, the guy could play several instruments AND play them better than anyone else. Prince was an amazing guitarist, just as good as Page & Beck, and, unlike either of them could play basketball like a MOFO!
So far 2016 can kiss my ass, if 1959 was the year the music died, this is they year it was cremated and scattered to the winds.
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4 hours ago, pluribus said:
Agreed. They will always be vulnerable because the examples are so numerous. While this lawsuit may not have merit, there are still examples of Page's "influences" that will always look bad. If Bert Jansch hadn't listed all of his performances as "Traditional" on Jack Orion, he could've made a killing suing Page for Black Mountainside (Black Waterside), Going to California (Nottamun Town and Henry Martin), Bron-Y-Aur Stomp (Waggoner's Lad), and the multiple releases that feature the live version of White Summer (which includes Bert Jansch's Casbah). Likewise for Davy Graham for White Summer, along with other lifts.
Not really sad for Page here. He made millions. He can afford it. He took the material, he should pay the price. Won't change my ability to enjoy listening to Zeppelin's music one bit.
Not saying right or wrong but Page in numerous interviews since 1968 brought up Jansch & Graham repeatedly as his main influences in regard to acoustic guitar, and, since those songs were credited as trad before, the question is whether Page should have also used the trad credit as well. Willie Dixon stole lock, stock, and barrel from his uneducated peers and never gave them any credit. Page alway gave credit in interviews to his influences which resulted in those artists achieving a modicum of additional commercial revenue which they never would have had without Page. This is exactly how I got into the blues & celtic folk, by Page interviews which made me seek out these influences and buy their records. I have heard Page acknowledge both Jansch & Graham many, many times...has Spirit or Randy California ever acknowledged Graham?
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10 hours ago, JTM said:
Not a lot of Spirit fans in here, pity, you don't know what you're missing. btw Stairway was inspired by Taurus, imho.
If you truly feel that way then you will also have to acquiesce through logic and fact that Spirit was even more so influenced by Davey Graham's Cry Me A River when they wrote the descending arpeggio structure which does not begin until the middle of the song. The structure between those two songs is almost identical vs. the 4 similar notes shared by only the opening arpeggio in STH. So, if I were Jimmy & Robert, I would find a living relative of Davey to sue the Randy California estate for copying Graham's CMAR and then using a stolen structure to lay the blame on another artist.
One should be careful while strolling through the cactus as one might get pricked. That being said I too enjoy the music of Spirit, not all of it or even most of it but some is pretty good. Taurus is not one of their good songs, it is disjointed and meandering with no real point form beginning to end. Also, according to research, Spirit never played Taurus live at any gig's Zeppelin & Spirit played together, which BTW was only three or four I believe.
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What I find funny is the obvious fact the Davey Graham's Cry Me a River released in 1959 is virtually identical to the riff structure of Taurus, however Stairway differs substantially from both compositions. I truly feel if the defense points this out both through an audio example & through sheet music comparison, the lawsuit is dead. Then again, in this day and age, anything is possible.
Frigging vampires.
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3 hours ago, middlezep said:
Hendrix wins.....,ok theres nothing wrong with being a loser
Especially when Hendrix is the winner. As a guitarist I could not even get in the same building as Hendrix, nor could many, so Page coming in as runner up is pretty damn impressive IMO.
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The real surprise is why neither In The Evening, or All My Love were performed. ITE was a staple of both the 95'-96' & 98' PP tours and AML was a huge hit. One of these should have been performed to represent ITTOD, IMO it should have been ITE. I would have preferred either Hot's or Royal Orleans instead of FYL.
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4 hours ago, Houses of the Holy said:
Strange day today...no Rush tunes popped up in my Google Play shuffle...!
BLASPEHMY!
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14 hours ago, Kiwi_Zep_Fan87 said:
Well, lpMan, I guess from my posts, you can see how passionate I am about Rush!
I am one of those fans who loves those inaccessible. out of this world, prog type epics like Cygnus X-1, La Villa Strangiato, etc. I was pretty surprised to know that the band doesn't think very much of albums like Caress of Steel and Hemispheres. These albums are works of art, in my opinion, but with that being said, I also really love albums like Grace Under Pressure, Signals, Presto, Roll The Bones, Counterparts, Test For Echo, Vapor Trails and Clockwork Angels! To me, each era of Rush and each album, has something special to offer!
It's great that you got to see this incredible band in concert, many times!
Now don't think me a simple rube or a rat bastard because of what I said about Hemispheres, I really like the album but it is not my favorite by them. On the bonus side, Caress of Steel is one of my favorites, just a great album and The Necromancer is in my top 5 songs of all time.
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18 hours ago, Kiwi_Zep_Fan87 said:
Seconded! I had the pleasure of listening to her soul-filled vocal range, for the first time, thanks to Delta Deep's amazing debut album! One of my favourite albums from 2015, for sure!
Third and passed! She is one hell of a belter and that is one hell of an album.
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9 hours ago, Kiwi_Zep_Fan87 said:
First, maybe I am too young or way too naive for my own good, but honestly, I have never heard of any of these groups. I am not going to pretend that I have.
Second, what is wrong if I regard Rush so highly as one of the greatest bands on earth? I mean, this is just my opinion and I think I am allowed to have it.
Third, I am not trying to split hairs, but I happen to love Hemispheres, even though I love albums like Fly By Night, Caress of Steel, 2112 and A Farewell To Kings, just a tiny bit more. To regard an album such as Hemispheres, as a serious misstep, is such a bold statement to make, if you ask me, but hey, that's your opinion and you have every right. You don't see me questioning you about your opinion, do you? So, please be fair and respect my opinions too, no matter how bold (or absurd) they might seem, to you.
I was joking Kiwi, those bands I mentioned are without a doubt, some of the worst or lamest bands to come out of Canada with the exception of Nickleback. However I still stand by my assessment of Hemispheres. It is a good album without a doubt, it is from a technical level their best and most complex playing, but even the band themselves feel the album is not very accessible. I love me my Rush and have seen them more times than every other band, what can I say.
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4 minutes ago, Kiwi_Zep_Fan87 said:
Yes, it is and I will stand by this statement, till the day I die! As for Anne Murray, well, my mom is a big fan.
Ok, what about The Poppy Family or Martha and the Muffins??? You think Rush is as rocking as them???
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Hemispheres for me was a serious misstep by the band, the songs are just ok at best, nothing really good IMO. It was like the boys got together and said, "lets try and write the most complex, inaccessible music in the prog-rock genre as possible. Even by their own admission they pretty much feel this way about the album. This is my least favorite Rush album and I am one of those who prefer the up to Signals as their best albums for the most part.
Really getting into Clockwork Angels right now, what a great album.
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On February 13, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Kiwi_Zep_Fan87 said:
^^^I feel Rush is practically Canada's greatest gift to the world,
That is a bold statement! Have you never heard of Anne Murray???
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As much as I love Page, Hendrix single handedly invented modern rock guitar and, anyone who can tune a Strat mid song, dive bomb like hell and then tune again without nary skipping a beat while improv abound has my vote.
Hendrix was Apollo come to human form.
I am one of those fans who loves those inaccessible. out of this world, prog type epics like Cygnus X-1, La Villa Strangiato, etc. I was pretty surprised to know that the band doesn't think very much of albums like Caress of Steel and Hemispheres. These albums are works of art, in my opinion, but with that being said, I also really love albums like Grace Under Pressure, Signals, Presto, Roll The Bones, Counterparts, Test For Echo, Vapor Trails and Clockwork Angels! To me, each era of Rush and each album, has something special to offer! 
Lawsuit over Stairway to Heaven
in News
Posted
What did Page say in this interview which is so damning? "Oh, ha, he, he, he....I stole the riff from Taurus to construct STH and Peter threatened to cut off Randy's balls if he ever said anything. He, he, he, do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law...MY LAW!!!"
I have read what I believe to be all of those interviews between Page & Tolinski and I do not recall such an exchange, nor any exchange which could be construed as damning IMO. Any ideas here???