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Everything posted by John-McNally

  1. Please do get your facts right Charles White. Jimmy Page did not play on any songs by The Who. It was rumoured that Page played on I Can't Explain but he did not. I knew eventually knew that someone would lower the tone and refer to Pete Townshend as a pervert. I was not surpassed at all, which sums up the mind set of some people Then the Dark Lord your comment 'the fact that Townshend is a shameful pervert is very much on topic' He was cleared of any wrong doing. But I guess you lot want to believe it so there is no point in arguing about that. However, I am sure you lot will all comment on this as a means of digressing from the original question. The Dark Lord. Your comment barely disguises your anger and I do not have disdain for those who raised the issue. I was answering the question that was asked on this forum. Anyway lets agree to disagree on this subject. You all like a self indulgent and bloated rock band and I think they are criminally over rated but certainly not talentless.
  2. So boring. What have you got to say? Led Zep are blues plagiarists???? You will completely ignore whatever I say just to prove your point. So what do you do?????? Post Kashmir again. Is this really the best you can come up with????? This is not an argument I am even interested in but somehow I have been caught up in it. I can almost guarantee that YOU know nothing about music However, keep screaming and shouting as I am sure by your complete rage (like a school bully) and anger you will get your point across to absolutely no interest from anyone apart from your own one sided comrades on this website. .
  3. Thank you The Chase for the first convincing argument I have seen on here. Charles White has offered up Kashmir. Thank you but like Led Zep you have nothing to say, Apart from swearing and displaying rage as an answer that you hope will convince YOU that Led sep are so great. This has become a siege mentality on here. An argument I can't win and quite frankly I don't care. Look at the arguments that you lot have dared to create without a plausible answer. Led Zep V The Doors, Led Zep V ACDC. Then Led Zep V The Who. Without considering the simple fact that all these bands come from different eras, cultures and backgrounds. These bands if you care to think for just one moment are subject to their own particular back ground and culture. Yet the question, which the fans of Led Zep have dared to ask has been queried and they react with anger. I can understand that to some extent as it is (in their own minds) a personal attack on your own thought process. It is an argument you have created on this forum, and apart from The Chase you lot have failed to answer and have been thoroughly exposed for the limited knowledge of music that you clearly have. Sometimes the truth is painful. I am certainly not saying that my argument is true. it is just my opinion. But from what I can see on this forum you lot have shown blind ignorance and even though you lot beg the question, you hate the fact that anyone differs from your limited opinion. Anyway this argument is so boring. Why compare bands in the first place??? If you understood music then you would surely realise that music is subject to cultural differences, time, place etc??? Do you really want me to explain this?????? Led Zep are an English band but yet they look to America for what they think is the authentic blues. So this is what they come up with. 'been dazed and confused for so long it's not true, wanted a woman, never bargained for you, lots of people talking, few of them know'. I can't continue with the rest of the lyrics because they are so generic and ridiculously boring. All I wish to say is thank you for asking this question, which i am sure you lot will answer with such venom and anger. I bet you throw Pete Townshend's indiscretion with child porn on the internet into the equation. Simply because you have nothing to say. The Chase, however, has had the decency and the heart and dignity to give a plausible answer to the question that has been asked without resorting to play ground euphemisms.
  4. How tasteless can you lot get to reduce an argument about the artistic merits of both Led Zep and The Who to the level of referring to Pete Townshend’s arrest for accessing child porn on the internet. Is that the justification and depth of your opinions and analysis on why Led Zep is better than The Who? Pete Townshend was foolish without a doubt but was cleared was he not? However, I agree mud sticks. I can’t believe you lot have reduced a perfectly good argument to the level of what is worse: Child porn or plagiarism. I guess on that basis Led Zep is the better band. No one has offered a convincing argument as to why Led Zep is the better band. I don’t really think it matters but Led Zep fans clearly do. My argument was all about originality and the cultural significance of the 2 bands. I have already stated my opinion on both bands here. All I can be accused of is of being biased, which Led Zep fans clearly are. All I have seen here is a limited depth of analysis on who is the better band. Then as soon as a fan of The Who has an opinion the argument has now been reduced to personal digs at Pete Townshend, and all because someone has had the audacity to point out Led Zep’s substantial indiscretions and borrowing of other musician’s ideas. Admittedly everyone in the arts borrows from someone else as popular culture feeds on itself, however, Led Zep have been elevated to a status they hardly deserve. Led Zep had nothing to say except to offer except watered down versions (lyrically speaking) of Muddy Waters and Howlin Wolf songs. Anyway according to some of you my opinions are irrelevant. If so why start this argument in the first place??????
  5. Sathington you do not seem to have an informed opinion. So you pull The Who's first single I Can't Explain as an example of what you consider poor song writing. Of course Townshend was capable of writing throw away pop ditties, however, Led Zep padded out their albums with lots of Blues derivative filler and Pseudo intellectual occult nonsense. They are plagiarists and they will soon be in court again.
  6. Are these really the most thought provoking songs you could post on here? They sound pleasant enough but the last one in particular sounds like an English folk ballad, which is no bad thing I have to say. Led Zep divide opinion and fans of the band blindingly think they are the best band ever. To the rest of us they are derivative and several court cases have proved this as Led Zep have tried quietly to pay off those whose music they did not acknowledge in the first place. I love the lyrics to 'That's The Way', especially the following thought provoking couplet, which must have taken ages to write. That's the way... That's the way it oughtta be Oh don't you know now, mama said.. That's the way it's gonna stay, yeah.
  7. I never said anyone on here is an idiot at all and thanks for pointing out my spelling mistakes. I am partially sighted so mistakes like that occasionally happen. There is also nothing wrong with a debate about bands and music, and people should not get offended by it. Lots of my friends can't stand The Who and I respect their opinion. At the end of the day what we like and dislike is all subjective, and no one is really right or wrong. I passionately care about music and love to have debates about it, as I am sure you all do on here. My favourite band is The Who and most of us know that the last great thing they did was Quadrophenia. Anything after that is almost cringe worthy to say the least. They should also have called it quits when Keith Moon died and at least Led Zep had the good grace to call it a day, instead of limping on like The Who did to such embarrassing effect in the 1980s and beyond.
  8. I don't like Led Zepplin for many reasons. I have stated my opinion as to why. They have stolen a lot of songs from other people without acknowledgement. If you really know about music then you would know this or perhaps you are burying your head in the sand. You say I am only 17 Wrong. You say I have a lot to listen too. Perhaps I do. I have spent nearly 30 years collecting records so think I can form an opinion on Led Zepplin. Can I suggest that you have a lot to listen too. Have you heard Jake Holmes Dazed and Confused? I would argue that perhaps you had not even heard of him until I mentioned him. Have you heard Spirit's Taurus? Listen to Howlin Wolf's The Killing Floor, which The Lemon Song was clearly lifted from. I have offered 3 examples out of a possible 20 songs that Led Zep have borrowed generously from. Can The Who ever be accused of such pilfering as that? Whether you like The Who or not they were original and came up with ideas of their own. Sometimes it has not always worked, however, they put the marker down and tried to at least connect with their audience on an intellectual level. I do actually own Led Zep's first 5 albums, and they were bought because I thought they may have had some thought provoking songs apart from the lyrically dumb Whole Lotta Love. However, Led Zep had nothing really to say. Do you know that a lawsuit is currently being filed against Jimmy Page for stealing the opening guitar riff for Stairway to Heaven from Spirit's song 'Taurus'? They claim the late Randy California is due a song writing credit for that particular song, and Jimmy Page has refused to comment. My argument is that a band's work stands the test of time due to originality and song writing craft. However, I am certainly not saying that Led Zep have not stood the test of time because they clearly have. However, it is for the wrong reasons and I am not the only one who thinks that Led zep's legacy and status as one of the 'greatest' bands of all time is just pure hyperbole. I am not denying that Jimmy Page is an excellent producer and guitarist but the arguments being put forward on this forum as to the best band between The Who and Led Zep does not hold up. The only argument I have seen here is who was the heaviest band. I would argue that the reason why Led Zep fans have no idea about the laundry list of songs stolen by Led Zep is because they have never heard of the artists or their music that Led Zep stole from. People like Howlin Wolf and Robert Johnson remained in relative obscurity at the time, while Led Zep became rich and famous on the back of other peoples ideas. Led Zep were either careless about not giving credit where it is due or at worst down right thieves. Passing off songs as original and not acknowledging the source is deplorable. However, I realise this is an argument that will fall on deaf ears on this particular sight, which is fine by me. It could be argued that Led Zep are one of the best cover bands in the world. However, I would not be so churlish as to suggest that, as they did write a handful of half decent songs that you could hum along to without thinking. The only hope is that at least Led Zep did introduce their fans to some of those blues artist that they borrowed liberally from, and as a result and in a back handed way these blues greats have at least been given their due credit. One can only hope.
  9. I have not cut and run yet. Wanted to see what the response was. It is a good debate but I am not even sure why these 2 bands are compared to each other. It can only be because they were 2 colossal live acts but there the comparison ends.
  10. I had to register on this site because Led Zepplin fans always provide me with a laugh. This non-stop comparing between the stodgy Led Zepplin and The Who is unbelievable. Why do Led Zep fans feel in so much competition with The Who? Could it be that Keith Moon and John Entwhistle came up with the name Led Zepplin, when Page approached them about forming a band in 1968? Led Zepplin are essentially a blue-based band whose albums are full of filler. Some of the comments I have seen on here about Led Zep being great song writers can only come from people who have no knowledge of the obscure sources that Led Zep stole most of their songs from without giving due credit or royalties to the originators of most of their songs. It is a well-known fact that Led Zep purloined most of their songs from Howlin Wolf, Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters etc. However, Led Zep fans either do not know their musical history or choose to ignore this fact. Arguably Led Zep’s greatest song Stairway to Heaven’s guitar intro was stolen from Spirit’s, Taurus. Led Zep toured with them in 1968 and Jimmy Page lifted the guitar riff without any acknowledgment of the source. Have a listen to Jack Jake Holmes’s Dazed and Confused and you would have to be deaf to not hear what Led Zep have done here. Jack Jake Holmes filed a lawsuit against Led Zep along with countless others over the years about Led Zep’s plagiarism. This has never happened to The Who. The Who are originators and never sounded like they wanted to be a pseudo American blues based band. Pete Townshend was one of the most thoughtful, insightful and provocative songwriters of his time. Tommy and Quadrophenia for example, were concepts albums with a linear narrative that were eventually transferred to the big screen. The Who released arguably the greatest live album of them all, Live at Leeds. Led Zep fans even have to compare John Bonham with Keith Moon and not surprisingly in their biased opinion Bonham comes out on top. Was Bonham really that good? The only argument Led Zep fans can put up is that he was a heavy hitter on the skins. But really he was a solid drummer and no more than that. You seriously can’t put him in the same league as brilliantly original drummers in the rock canon like Keith Moon, Mitch Mitchell and Ginger Baker. Anyway that is enough from me. As soon as I have posted my thoughts I will close my account on this Led Zep site. Oh just one more thing. Led Zep’ so called classic Whole Lotta Love opening lyrics are as follows You need coolin', baby, I'm not foolin', I'm gonna send you back to schoolin', Way down inside honey, you need it, I'm gonna give you my love, I'm gonna give you my love. Haha, such thoughtful and insightful lyrics these. The Who and Pete Townshend meanwhile. We'll be fighting in the streets With our children at our feet And the morals that they worship will be gone And the men who spurred us on Sit in judgement of all wrong They decide and the shotgun sings the song. Won't Get Fooled Again. The Who will always be more culturally significant than Led Zepplin for many reasons, including the fact that Pete Townshend was a brilliant songwriter, who tapped into a peculiarly British sensibility. Townshend was one of the most intriguing and original writers of the 60s and 70s. Townshend had a relentless stream of ideas, and was able to pick a towering guitar riff out of the air at will. Townshend gave voice to teenage angst with a myriad of great songs in which Led Zep or rather Jimmy Page could only dream about writing. Led Zep songs sang at you and The Who's songs sang to you and about you.
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