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osoz

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Everything posted by osoz

  1. I think of JImmy's playing as just plain rude, I was running through the runs down to E5 and A5 from Nobody's Fault But Mine earlier. After I posted I tried it as written in most tabs/notation, no balls, played it as I know it is on the studio recording, plain rude, all because of one tiny little pull-off from a barred power chord to the open A on the way down never shown in the notation, but it totally transforms it and fills a mediocre empty space in the riff. Now I'm not saying it was analysed (got the spelling right that time), but I know playing it that way sounds so much better and so did Jimmy. That's what it is to me, that something extra that makes the ordinary become very very special. One could say it was a 'mistake' the note shouldn't be sounded but it sounds boring and lifeless without it. It's been mentioned above about Jimmy's timing too, how many instructional videos on Youtube show the riff from Whole Lotta Love to beginners? How many of the 'instructors' play it right, not seen one yet, the chord is clearly pushed and the palm muted beats arrive in a little packet distinctly grouped together it's not evenly timed (1ena 2ena or what have you) as it is shown in all the music notation I've ever seen. It's that timing and the bend in the riff that just fills it with tension and makes it totally memorable and awesome.
  2. I would personally say the nuances you hear Jimmy Page play were picked up by his learning to play early on from recordings of other musicians. They form part of the feel of the pieces and are typical of blues and folk. I can give you many examples where the written music for Led Zeppelin sounds slightly lacking when played as written, but working with a recording it becomes possible to hear just that slightest pull-off from a note, say when changing position that isn't significant enough to be written down, but the piece sounds not quite right without it. It really isn't carelessness, it can take time to add that form of nuance to a piece and I'm sure many are totally deliberate to create colour or facilitate playing in one way or another. They tend to flow quite easily when the right and left hands are relaxed and the fingerings used by the original artist are replicated. They form the signatures or particular styles of course too. It's always worth taking the time just to put on a recording and replicate what you hear now and then, there is much to be learnt from it and incorporation of nuances becomes second nature very quickly. I'll just add also that replication of the nuances often gives an indication that one is playing the piece in the same way, some say you shouldn't bother but it really depends what one is attempting to achieve or learn at the time. As a final edition to this post, It's all about how the music sounds, if a particular nuance works it was meant to be there!
  3. Thanks for posting the videos woz70, it certainly demonstrates the point both visually and audibly.
  4. You are certainly touching on my thoughts there pluribus, take Jimmy Page on one hand and then those that followed and one is reaching the average person with the music whilst the others generally are not. As a guitarist I do listen to the players you listed and I would add Steve Vai, I admire them for sure and would never in a million years of playing reach their technical abilities - so do they move me, nope, is there even one recording of Jimmy Page that fails to catch my attention or inspire me, well I've honestly yet to find it. I'll check that out woz70, I know exactly what you mean by the locked wrist and one can see just how loose (in a good way) JImmy was with the right hand in early performances, very relaxed fluid and fast.
  5. Thanks for the comments so far, I think perhaps we should make some distinction between technique and the drug/booze damage that is all too obvious in later Led Zep performances. I do think that as both rhythm guitarist and lead for Led Zep it left Jimmy's playing massively exposed, there are plenty of lead guitarists that get away with much worse as they can fall back on a second guitar to keep it going. It's not easy switching between rhythm and lead parts at all in my experience either and have to practice that in any Led Zep song I learn over and over. It sure took some balls to take big chances in the live sets (effectively 'jamming' with the band) I guess we all could crash and burn in that situation so I feel pretty inclined to ignore some of the live fluff-ups more often than not. I can hear a lot of the studio recordings are not so polished either, I'm sure I read it was generally two or three takes and use the best as Jimmy wanted the spontaneous aspect of the performance to be preserved. Practice is important, I'm returning to playing after a two and half year break (back problems meant I couldn't tolerate playing for more than a minute or two at a time), but it's also true that going over the same piece over and over it can start to lose some of the feel and spark, so I guess Jimmy was in an awkward balancing act, trying not to lose spontaneity, yet at the same time perhaps sacrificing the consistency needed to be under the spotlight of an audience with massive expectations night after night... ... particularly with nowhere to hide!
  6. Well it is often said, that Jimmy Page is a 'sloppy' player. What is really meant by this? Did he constantly fluff notes and mess up? The more I listen (and I mean actually slow the stuff down and listen very carefully to parts) the more 'sloppy' begins to sound like the work of a rhythmic genius. Listening to later guitarists it all gets very clean and accurate but seems to lose some of the raw appeal to me. I had a guitarist friend once say when I was learning the strumming parts in Stairway 'you are just spending hours learning Jimmy Page's mistakes' - I still don't think he was right about it. When I play it I see it as a festival or rhythmic variations which give the song that very page-esque signature - nothing like the youtube instruction videos where I guy says 'well do like this' or 'some people do it like that' - in reality every bar has it's own rhythmic alterations and changes. I found it worth the time to learn the transcriptions bar by bar and doing so added new dimensions to my playing in general. So what do people think, was Jimmy actually sloppy or has some of the expression and ability to hold rhythmic ideas through a piece been somewhat lost by more technically perfect guitarists which followed? I'm thinking a lot for example of finger style blues, where nobody gives two hoots about the exact melody, just so long as that rhythmic pattern in the bass just keeps on rollin' and it stays (mostly) in key. It would die a total death and sound bland if attempted by a technical guitarist with no concept of holding onto that bass line at all cost.
  7. Another here who first heard of Jack White watching 'It might get loud', the music has grown on me big time over the last few years, I can't help liking the guy.
  8. Spot on JTM - my elder sister used to have hysterical fits in front of the TV whenever Marc was on, by the time of Marc's death though, she was away at college and it hardly seemed to have an affect on her. On the other hand I was younger and very much watching kids TV and Marc has a place in my heart from that time. I still think he was cool and many thought he was likely to move on and was perhaps even going to relaunch his career when he died. He had lost a lot of weight and seemed to be cool to the kids again. But it wasn't to be.
  9. There is more of a legacy than the music to me personally. I do find T-Rex doesn't stand up to too much listening before it gets tired for sure as it is very repetitive but after a break from it I do enjoy it again. The TV show Marc though, there was so much for the kids of the day there and the show casing of punk bands led me to relating to punk and later goth in my teenage years. Marc wasn't exactly hard on the eyes either
  10. It's a Zep song going through my head like all morning, I think I fell asleep listening to it last night with my earphones in
  11. Hi to all, been really enjoying reading a lot of the threads here and seeing the knowledge of forum members on the band. I've always wondered what fans thought about the decision by the band to break up after John Bonham's death. As I understand it, it was partly out of respect for John's family and partly that the live sets had evolved to such an extent it was felt it would be impossible to replace John with another drummer. I get the impression too that perhaps other band members were shocked into reality by the event, that the excesses of the rock 'n' roll lifestyle would catch them up too if they went on. Would love to hear opinions or suggestions of what they could have done to continue or reasons why it was the right time to quit.
  12. I got into Led Zeppelin through playing the guitar. Aware of them throughout the 70's they were not all that accessible in the UK to a young kid, no singles, rarely shown on television etc. My elder sister had albums and older friends raved about them. I was more into glam rock at the time then punk and goth. So I had this sort of awareness of Led Zep but not really into them as such. Then after about 20 years of bashing at the guitar I wanted more. I found the variety of Led Zeppelin's music appealing, alternative tunings, slide guitar, good mix of acoustic and electric huge variety of influences. The more I started to listen to the music, the more I got into it. First song I learnt was Black Dog, after years at the guitar I finally had something come out of it that was really satisfying to hear and play. Been totally hooked since.
  13. T-Rex fan here, they had their own groove going on, I kind of understand it isn't for everyone. Still haven't gotten over Marc's death, don't think I ever will.
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