As others have pointed out, I think they should have taken better care of their setlists from 75 onwards...NQ was awesome, but DAC felt tired and longwinded, nowhere near the 73 versions - I don't think there was any new ground to cover in the song improvisationally after July '73 and, since it's a live number dependent on freshness and vitality...they should have left it out. MD was always boring to me, so 75 is no exception. I get that Zep wanted a fair amount of songs that had the ability to change from show to show in order to keep things exciting, but Rover, Wanton Song, In The Light, Custard Pie...all these songs could easily be on the '75 setlist. As for '77, well, what can you say. MD and the guitar solo were a huge waste of time...For Your Life should have been there, as well as some calmer numbers to assist Ten Years Gone, like Down By The Seaside or Night Flight...did the audience really need to hear them masturbate on their respective instruments?

Truth is, that OTHAFA solo with the "disastrous phrasing" happens to be one of my favorites he did for the song. Too many moments and licks where it's just bloody awesome and, yes, I fully acknowledge and can hear the sloppiness

I think the OTHAFA solo peaked in 1975. By that time, Jimmy had completed his vision for how he wanted the solo to sound, what styles to incorporate etc. With that in mind, I think 3.21 might be his finest hour (ok, 3 or so minutes) on the solo

Pretty hard to decide, but for sentimental reasons I'd go with the debut, since it's the first studio album I listened to after my father introduced me to Zep at the sweet age of 11. And, since that introduction was in the form of SIBLY and STH from the TSRTS movie, I would say the TSRTS soundtrack would be pretty high in my book as well (if we're including live releases).

Amen to that! I'll take brutal honesty over these half-assed, ass-kissing "Oh I love [insert classic band name], they're the best!" remarks that celebrities often say

I'll admit these songs have all very interesting lyrics, but: a) they're the exception, not the rule, they still don't measure with the finest lyrics of the Stones, imho. But we're getting into dangerously subjective territory here, I'm afraid

Please show me where I have been disrespectful in my response...and it is not a matter of winning and losing, I am just not fond of the constant underrating the Stones get when compared to other famous classic bands when they were equally fantastic (if not more in many areas) But i guess this is not the kind of thing to say on a zep forum, is it?

First things first: i was talking about hard rock numbers, prompted by the "whoa mama" comments of gibsonfan. Percy has of course written his fair share of beautiful/smart/evocative etc. lyrics, but my point was: although on first glance the hard rock songs of the Stones and Zep may seem to be of equal lyrical quality, closer inspection reveals that the former had a way better knack for rocking out AND having words that most of the time (not always, of course) go far beyond the cock rock cliches Plant wrote. Second, I'm sorry, but Thank You has really banal lyrics for my taste, but to each his own, I guess. Finally, "all far more evocative tunes"? Really? Gimme Shelter, You Can't Always Get, Wild Horses, Dead Flowers, Moonlight Mile, Sister Morphine, Sympathy, No Expectations, Paint It Black, Shine A Light, Winter, 100 Years Ago, Waiting On A Friend are only some of the songs in their discography that display an astonishing marriage between music and lyrics. But I guess the thunderous terror of Shelter, the spiritual uplift of YCAGWYW, or the spooky, creepy "dark alleway" vibes of Sister Morphine are less evocative than what Zep had to offer... And don't make the mistake of dismissing their post-73 output...the "they sucked after that" myth is exactly that...a myth.

Ok, now you're playing dumb, right? First of all, I was talking about the peak years of each lyricist and second, I never said every single lyric Jagger ever penned was a timeless piece of art. But, here we go...

Oh, it doesn't have to do with complexity and perplexing concepts at all...it's all about telling an entertaining story or talking about something interesting. Plant very rarely (if ever) did that on Zep rockers. Mind you, this isn't a criticism on the actual songs...they're rightful classics. But the Stones were always more intelligent lyrically, that's my point. On your previous post you seemed to put only the Who and Tull on the "intelligent lyricists" club and all I'm saying is that the Stones belong there, not on the "whoa mama" club...Honky Tonk doesn't have a particular message, but it's a wonderfully funny little story that's tons more interesting than Plant's generic cock rock ramblings...and I say that as a hardcore Zep fan

I don't get the Stones/Richards "bashing" at all (I mean, look at my avatar ). Richards has a not-so-flattering opinion about a band. What's the big deal? Others have covered the various possible reasons for his opinion (and the most likely -and simplest- of all is simply "personal taste" No, the Stones didn't just write the same riff rock "whoa mama" type music. First of all, they were more diverse than Zep (and that's saying something given the fact that LZ were incredibly diverse too): the roots rock period is just four albums, before that we have pop/psychedelia (with all kinds of influences thrown in), after that funk/R&B/disco and some other genre hopping along the way. The Stones settled down for the "whoa mama" style (for the most part, but even then not completely) from Steel Wheels onwards. The majority of their discography is filled with brave experimentation. Another key difference is the lyrical output between the bands' hard rock material. Let's face it, Jagger in his peak creative years (1965-1972 at least) wrote much more creative and interesting lyrics than Plant. For a quick conclusion, just compare the hits: Black Dog, Rock And Roll, Communication Breakdown, Whole Lotta Love on one side, Jumpin' Jack Flash, Honky Tonk Women, Satisfaction, Sympathy on the other. The LZ picks are undeniable classics, but the actual words are rather...ordinary "squeeze my lemon" or "girl problem" tropes -only Rock And Roll tries to tell something with its nostalgic theme. The Stones cuts, on the other hand, in addition to being equally classic in the musical sense as the LZ choices are much more inspired. You have a metaphor for getting out of tough situations, a hilarious tale about a "baroom queen in Memphis", a cry against social issues of the 60's and a critique against mankind's evil ways from the POV of the Devil and a rather ambiguous.

Thanks a lot, Badgeholder

I'll agree with the Earl's Court & Japan 71 crowd, these are the most likely candidates for release given the information on multitracked material we have so far. All in all, I think Page has covered most of the touring years of Zep with at least one show: 1969 - the bonus disc of the debut (could definitely use some shows with the "ALAIHY setlist" as I call them ) 1970 - RAH (fantastic representation of early '70 - no complaints at all- although I would love SIBLY, TY and Heartbreaker from this show) 1971 - BBC (this one's a little underwhelming, Japan or NA are ten times more representative) 1972 - HTWWW (no complaints here, these two shows sum up perfectly this phenomenal tour) 1973 - TSRTS & DVD (excellent -and underrated- "reworked" shows, although a release from Europe would be amazing) 1975 - DVD segments (I'd love the full Court treatment, but Jimmy will have to work his ass off in order to have material that suits his standards -as great as they are on the whole, these shows are mighty inconsistent and I think it's one of the cases where Jimmy's perfectionism will work in favor and not against the performances). Frankly, I think releasing anything from the NA tour is pointless since there are so many FANTASTIC soundboards from this tour that they are almost official releases for me 1977 - Another inconsistent year, but the tour's vibes are unforgettable. Sadly, no multitracked shows = no official releases so far. It's a pity since there aren't a lot of great quality (sound-wise) bootlegs from this period 1979 - DVD segments and personally I don't need anything else - the Copenhagen recordings have great quality so no biggie for me (not to mention that Knebworth was a little lackluster) 1980 - Having heard very little material from this year, I'm positively excited at the possibility of an official Tour Over Europe release, although many say the tour wasn't that good Question: which 1975 NA tour shows were multitracked?