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Chick-N-Picker

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Posts posted by Chick-N-Picker


  1. 8 minutes ago, Bonzo_fan said:

    1972: I'm not as familiar with '72 as I probably should be, mainly because of How The West Was Won.  6/25/72 LA (one of the HTWWW shows) is probably the best-sounding audience tape from '72.  I think a few of the Japanese shows are decent sound and performance quality--10/9/72 Osaka is the best of the '72 Japanese shows, I believe.  6/19/72 Seattle is a legendary show and probably the best of '72, but the sound quality is not good (I think it's listenable, and worth the effort, given the performance quality).

    1973:

    - 3/16 Vienna flips between a great audience tape and a soundboard

    - 3/21 Hamburg is only good sound quality for the SBD that takes over for most of Dazed, Stairway & WLL, but is an amazing performance--Bonham's drumming on Dazed & WLL is out-of-this-world

    - 3/22 Essen - same deal as Vienna

    - 3/24 Offenburg - pretty good audience tape and one of Page's best shows ever

    - 5/13 Mobile & 5/14 New Orleans are great SBDs--New Orleans has a very good audience source as well

    - 5/31 LA has both a great AUD and a SBD

    - 6/2 San Francisco has a good AUD, and a SBD from Moby Dick to the end

    - 6/3 LA - one of the best performances of the year (and probably the best setlist), but bad recording

    - 7/17 Seattle - SBD lasts until Moby Dick, after which a pretty good AUD takes over.  Winston's version is a matrix until the SBD ends

    - 7/21 Providence - my personal favourite, at least of the North American tour, but the recording is just OK.  Quite listenable though, I'd say...

    1975: the year with the best SBD coverage (and the best sounding SBDs at that!)

    - 2/8 Philadelphia - decent AUD, but one of Page's best shows of the year

    - 2/12 New York - amazing sound quality (matrix), and a pretty great performance

    - 2/13 New York - straight SBD, but even better performance than the 12th

    - 3/3 Ft. Worth - SBD, excellent performance for Bonham

    - 3/12 Long Beach - one of the best shows of the year, and the new 3-source mix makes the whole show very listenable sound quality (except Trampled Under Foot, which is only on the inferior source)

    - 3/19 & 20 Vancouver - excellent SBDs both sound- and performance-wise

    - 3/21 Seattle - best show of the year IMO, now available in an excellent matrix

    - 3/25 & 27 LA - great audience tapes with mostly great performances as well

    - 5/18 London - pretty good AUD and a great performance

    - 5/25 London - pretty good performance, and it's available in full on video, so that's good

    1977:

    - 4/28 Cleveland & 4/30 Pontiac - not the greatest sounding AUDs, but listenable, and the performances are well worth the effort

    - 5/18 Birmingham - pretty good AUD, and a great performance

    - 5/22 Ft. Worth - great SBD, both sound- and performance-wise

    - 6/10 New York - decent AUD, great performance

    - 6/13 New York - OK AUD, superb performance

    - 6/21 LA - amazing AUD, amazing performance

    - 6/22 LA - AUD that ranges from OK at the start to pretty good for the second half after a few source changes, performance is as good or better than the 21st--my personal favourite of '77

    - 6/23 LA - amazing AUD, pretty great performance

    - 6/25 LA - another great AUD, performance not as good as the preceding LA nights

    - 6/26 LA - mediocre AUD, fantastic performance

    - 6/27 LA - amazing AUD, performance is pretty good.  Valuable for the historical interest of it being their last show ever in LA, and being one of their longest shows (along with 3/21/75, 3/27/75 & 5/25/75)

    I hardly ever listen to post-'77, and when I do, it's usually the two Copenhagen warm-ups in '79 or watching Achilles Last Stand (8/4/79 Knebworth) on the DVD.

    I know what you mean about the phone storage--getting the 128 GB was a life-changer!  Have you ever gotten into the Dead's live repertoire?  Even more to discover than Zepp, and most of it in much better sound quality...

    Thank you. No I really never did get into the Dead live. Other than watching some Youtube videos. Which is weird considering that's where they were supposed to be the best. 

    Of course it's more to discover, but I can barely keep my up with everything I like now. :lol:

    Between listening to current things I like, bringin back up things I already like, discovering new things, and playing music. Music pretty much consumes my life.

    It's pretty normal for me to be walking around town, at let's say lowes, singing Since I've Been Loving You, an Elvis tune, or who knows what to myself. I try to keep it at a low volume to keep people from looking. But screw it, it keeps me entertained. 


  2. 1 hour ago, Bonzo_fan said:

    Ah ok, cool!  That's neat!  I never used to like country, but it's started to grow on me a bit--mainly older stuff though, and especially when non-country artists play country-ish songs, like the Dead and the Stones.  And cool; I'm 23.

    Do you need audience recommendations for post-'71?

    Sure. This 68-71 run can only last so long :)

    And yes I love the Stones and the Deads country (and rock) stuff. I know I'll eventually be listening to it again. I used to have almost every Stones album from 65-80 on my phone and Workingmans Dead & American Beauty are superb but moved on and had to make room. That's the great thing about music with me. I go in circles with artist, bands, songs. But at least now I have a phone with plenty of room, so I never have to delete songs again. It would kill me a few years ago to delete my music. (Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Country, various songs). It sucked to the max.


  3. 6 hours ago, chef free said:

    I'm really starting to love so called "Outlaw Country"!  Sturgill Simpson, Jason Isabell (solo and with Drive By Truckers), Chris Stapleton and the like.  Ever heard Cody Jinks?  My new favorite, check him out!  Judging by this list, can you recommend any others I might like?

    Never heard of Cody Jinks but I'll look him up. Anytime you bring outlaw country up, one must mention Waylon Jennings. Also David Allen Coe, Willie Nelson along with many others. There's a good one but I can't think of his name at the moment. God, I hate that.

    But one guy this often overlooked, but everybody in Nashville, and all over know him. Not sure if you've heard of him but his name is Jim Lauderdale. He's a singer and big time songwriter. He has some straight forward country, borderline rock-y stuff, outlaw country, even some bluesy and bluegrass stuff. So you have to weave yourself through his albums to find songs you prefer. That's what I did.

    One song in particular to check out is "Merle World". In my opinion it is in the top 10 best country songs of all time. But it has an outlaw edge. Just give it a listen. If you like that check out "The King Of Broken Hearts" and "I Met Jesus In A Bar". Being raised a christian when I firsr heard the last one I thought he was making a mockery. It's quiet the opposite and a good song. 


  4. 4 minutes ago, Bonzo_fan said:

    Ah, ok. 

    Yeah, you could be right about that.

    Are you interested in post-'71 at all btw?

    Oh yeah! I like Zep from all their stages. I used to listen to Zep like crazy for years then kind of fell away, because I'm actually a big country guy. In my first round of Zep I couldn't get enough of Candy Store Rock haha. But I was raised on country and bluegrass which I love. But for about 2 years I became almost a country purist but then remembered how much I love Zep, The blues, Hippy music, etc. I've always been sort of a country boy/farmer/hippy/rocknroller. I'm 24 by the way.

    But 68-71 is just my favorite period. 72 is another year that is really void of SB. It seems like 73 onward seems to have a lot.


  5. On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 at 11:34 AM, Bonzo_fan said:

    Since he said he's new to bootlegs, I wasn't sure if he intended to exclude soundboards...I didn't know they were a thing when I first got into bootlegs.

    :) I did know what sounboards recordings were but that's fine you included them because I'm now aware that some of SB releases have better quality just like the audience releases. 

    I was trying to find quality audience recording because I've pretty much checked out all the SB's from 68-71. We need more SB's from 70 and 71. Specifically the second half of 70 and the first half of 71. There isn't one SB from either (excluding 71 BBC).

    July 70 to June 71 could very well be the best year for Zeppelin live overall. Robert was still amazing, Jimmy was at his top and they were playing songs from all the first 4 albums. I mean your never going to hear Stairway or Immigrant Song from a 69 show, if you get my drift. ;)


  6. Teach me.

    1. If I was looking for the best (audio quality) audience recordings from 68-71, what would some of those shows be?

    2. I think I've come to know that a lot of bootlegs have different names for the same show. Or something like that.

    3. Where would I go to listen to such bootlegs? I would think youtube would be hit or miss about finding the best quality if they are there at all. So is there a site or something?

    4. Adress anything I left out.


  7. 3 hours ago, Moby_Dick_Ale said:

    Believe me; it's complete and stunning! clocking in at almost 11 minutes!!!

    Where can I hear it? It's not on the tube of you. I'm still sort of new to this bootleg world. The different companies and different releases of the shows.

    I've always just been a youtube searcher.


  8. 8 hours ago, The Only Way To Fly said:

    Amazing performances at both shows. Being a super fan of Zeppelin 1970  - The one off gig in Iceland is my grail. 

    Oh yeah, I completely forgot about them goung to Iceland. Holy grail for sure.


  9. On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 9:39 AM, Little Robert Anthony II said:

    I think Elvis preserved his voice better, probably due to superior technique. It's also a lot easier to control singing in that range as opposed to wailing in the 5th octave like Plant did. I don't think his voice change was as noticeable as Plant's. I know we're comparing them when they were around the same age, but it would have been interesting to see what Elvis would have sounded like in his late 40s, 50s and 60s like we have with Plant. I suspect his voice would have aged well because of his technique and style. Plant of course can still sing his ass off, but he prefers not to sing in the 70s style, softer stuff is easier on his aging voice.

    I agree Elvis had drastic changes in his voice but you would have still known it was him. Mighy have shocked you but still. If someone heard him in 56 and didn't hear again until 68. They may go "Is that Elvis? Damn his voice changed."

    However if somebody listed to early Zep, say 1970, then stepped away and came back after Plants change they would probably "Who's the new singer for Led Zep?" "Nah, man that's Plant." "WTF happened? I thought that was a completely another guy."

    I know what I said about Plant to be true because I was playing Communication Breakdown one day at my sisters and then played something off HOTH (I think The Ocean) and she says who is this band. "The same one", I said. She replied with "That sounds like a different guy." I then showed her other examples and she almost acted like I was joking about it being the same guy on the firsr 4 vs the other albums.

     

     


  10. Well, if Page is the source for all soundboards and is holding back some of the holy grail shows, then that is just stupid and greedy. Why not release them for the fans to enjoy. Dude, its been 45-50 years. We all love the band and the band members. We want our holy grails.

    The only exceptions is if he is waiting for the 50th and does a huge release of soundboards and finally the holy grails are found. If that's it, then that is very page-y and cool. But if he has them and continues to just sit with them. That makes no sense. Which is why I don't think he is the source for soundboards. I mean he might have some stuff to release, but the all mighty source. Very doubtful.

     


  11. We need more soundboards from 68-71. And to be honest there's a big gap of no soundboads from 72, so that would be nice. 72 isn't like 68-71 for me, but 72 was still a cool year and had some great stuff from what we've heard. And since there is so little sounboards from that year, if that was my favorite year I'd really be hoping.

    But we need Blueberry Hill, and the MSG evening show of 1970. Holy grails.


  12. On Sunday, April 01, 2018 at 10:40 PM, ZepHead315 said:

    Nope. It's been making the rounds on Royal Orleans for a while now. I guess whoever runs that Twitter account only just heard about it today. Here's a sample of Friends. The soundboard sample kicks in at 1:53.

    http://twitsound.jp/musics/tsjyZFYP3

    I was stoked to hear a soundboard version of Stairway from this show then it gets to the end singing and it goes silent then picks up after its over. So no "And as we wind on down the road."

    It that part gone or edited out on purpose? It's a bummer.


  13. Over on another thread this thought popped in my head and thought it would go here pretty good.

    Why on God's Earth when Plant started having his voice troubles didn't they just drop the key one full tone. Page could even play it the same. Use heavy-ier gauge strings then just tune down. Then his strings would have felt normal and everything.

    If they had started doing this in mid to late 71 when his voice troubles started creeping up its hard to know how much of his original voice could have been saved. Possibly all of it. Plant still needed to quit singing with the flu though but if your having voice troubles and a key is to high, then it's just too high. To go from say A to G, it would help the singer immensely and since he would be hitting the correct notes in G it would still sound the same as if he was in A

    Then when the voice was rested and back strong then return to the original key, if desired.


  14. On 2/24/2018 at 9:29 PM, Sticks of Fire said:

    Actually I misspoke in my earlier post.   This is one of the best versions out there for Plant. 

    10/10/72 Kyoto Japan.  

     

     

    Yeah. He did very well there. I much prefer it sung the original way than in the lower octave. It just throws me off.

    Why on God's Earth when Plant started having his voice troubles didn't they just drop the key one full tone. Page could even play it the same. Use heavy-ier gauge strings then just tune down. Then his strings would have felt normal and everything.

    If they had started doing this in mid to late 71 when his voice troubles started creeping up its hard to know how much of his original voice could have been saved. Possibly all of it. Plant still needed to quit singing with the flu though but if your having voice troubles and a key is to high, then it's just too high. To go from say A to G, it would help the singer immensely and since he would be hitting the correct notes in G it would still sound the same as if he was in A.


  15. On 2/24/2018 at 8:49 PM, Sticks of Fire said:

    Another victim of Plant losing his high register vocals is Black Dog.   Was Milan 1971 the last time he really went for it?  Maybe Montreux in August?

     

     

    His voice is freaking insane there. I actually think it's higher than the album, especially in parts.

    Damn, it's tragic he lost his 67-71 voice. Although, some prefer his other voices so I guess it's a Plant for everybody.

    I guess it makes those first 4 albums so much more special. It also makes listening to 1971 shows more fun. Listening to him hit the stuff knowing that the end is just around the corner.


  16. On Monday, April 09, 2018 at 5:13 PM, Darth Hoek said:

    Elvis' voice changed less over time for sure while Robert systematically destroyed his voice through abuse (smoking, drinking, performing while sick as hell, not sleeping, ect.), but adapted to the changes by becoming a more versitile singer.  Elvis' music is not as damaging to the the pipes as zep; the heavier side of the zeppelin catalogue is destructive as hell to sing at full volume to the human voice over time.  Look at the vocal ranges on the albums...singing the songs on anything post pg is much easier; even though the songs are some of their best, the top range sung on them is significantly lower than on the earlier albums at least to my voice and ear.  In my opinion the boots I have available support this timeline as far as live performance goes.

    I watched the black and white Danish TV special from 1968/69 and then listened to a 1980 Brussles show off youtube and the difference in Robert's overall range is quite obviously reduced and often uses the aid of some miserable first gen octave effect on the early tunes to make up the difference.  Robert did and has adapted to these changes very well and is still one of the best singers around without a doubt; not being ableto sing something the same way your 20 year old self wrote it 50 years later is not something to be embarrassed about it is just a fact of life.

    Also, Elvis didn't smoke and took pills rather than drink to excess as his chosen vice, and while still terrible for the body pills do not directly jack up your larynx like Robert's 10 year + assault on his voice box with whatever passed his way did.  Singing every night with an infected throat while still puffing it all is going to change your voice for the worse too.  Let's say Robert came out of 1973 still with the strong push behind the pipes, but the pipes were a bit dented and jammed up so they didn't quite resonate the same way as before. I feel Robert is and was an great enough musician to recognize the changes in his range and then adapt his singing to them in a style that was even better than before, since Presence is f'n amazing! 

    Sadly, Elvis was a lounge act during his last years and was in residency in vegas as far as I am aware; as such, he wasn't dealing with the same rigors of the road and madness that someone on a Zeppelin tour would have undergone.  Imagine how exhausting that sort of endless and raging nomads's lifestyle must have been...

    Finally, since some of this thread has turned into a bit of a "list your favorite vocalists" I will throw that in as well here for S&G's.  I think Elvis is the best rock vocalist who came out of the 50's (although Little Richard could scream better than anyone at the time for sure), Robert Plant is the best who came out of the 60's, and Freddy Mercury (yes, the obviously undeserving Freddy Mercury!) is the greatest who came out of the 70's.  Late 80's and 90's goes to Mr. Mike Patton of Mr. Bungle, Faith No More, Fantomas, and countless other band's fame.  The guy has soul, is absolutely crazy, and has a six octave range...of course, obviously I am impressed by vocal range; others may be more into a soulful style, gutteral grunting in time to a double kick drum, or a country twang (hopefully not!). Of couse this is all my opinion so there you go...

     

    I agree about the way Robert damaged his voice. But in the 50's Elvis actually sang very harshly on a lot tracks, a lot. Really high and raspy. I heard thats why he changed singing styles to a more smooth suave style around 60-61. That it was hurting his voice.

     

    But then 68 rolls around and he pulls it out of his asenal (deeper tone obviously). He uses the most and is way more prominent in 68 through early 69, but retains it through recordings and live performances in 1970. Then much like Plant from 71 onward. He is never the same, with out voice loss.

    Everybody should watch the 68 comeback special that hasn't seen it. It truly shows peak Elvis. Heres a good example. Trouble/Guitar Man

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LUZ9CBKk7Lw

    Couldn't figure out how to make the video insert except as a hyperlink. Oh, well.


  17. On Monday, April 09, 2018 at 1:34 PM, ZepHead315 said:

    This is a rather enlightening discussion so far. Especially since my three favorite singers of all time (Elvis, Freddie Mercury, and of course Plant) have been brought up. Here's my two cents:

    If I'm judging based purely on emotion, I'd give the vote to Elvis. The man may not have been the most technically gifted singer, but DAMN if he didn't know how to use his voice to move people. He could sing a gospel song and move non-believers to tears. In this clip, a man perfectly sums it up. Even if you knew nothing else about Elvis, you can tell how much he believed in what he was singing. Consider also how he was in terrible shape at this point, yet as IpMan said, his voice was still strong as ever:

    Now, I'd agree that on a pure technical level, Freddie would probably win. He was sometimes shaky live, but he always nailed it in the studio. I'm no vocal expert, but I love how he had a clarity and tone in his voice that made it so that he could go from imitating Elvis on Crazy Little Thing Called Love, to soaring highs like Princes of the Universe. Also, like Elvis, he never lost his voice. On The Show Must Go On, he could barely walk due to the progression of his illness. And yet, in one take, he delivered what may very well be his greatest vocal performance ever:

    He opera collaboration with Montserrat Caballe shows another side to him as well, and I think it proves that he could have easily had a career outside of rock and roll if he wanted to:

    However, when I think of a rock vocalist, I don't think of Elvis or Freddie. I think of Plant. From 1968 to mid 1971, he had an incredible power and energy to his voice. He really was the fourth instrument of Zeppelin in every sense of the word. He had a raw sexual energy that was pretty much unmatched. Remember in TSRTS during SIBLY when that woman in the crowd is gazing at Plant utterly transfixed? He just had that power over people. Now, as we all know, his voice began to change in late 1971, but I think he adapted to it rather well. By 1977, he found a way to sing the songs again without straining his voice. I think he could have even done Immigrant Song if he really wanted to. In other words, I think he became a "smarter" singer. Hell, my favorite vocal performance he ever did in the studio with Zeppelin is I'm Gonna Crawl.

    Ultimately, I love all three, but really it's apples and oranges. They all have a unique appeal, and to try to objectively rate one as "the greatest" is pointless. Music, and indeed all art, is entirely subjective.

    I agree with most of what you say except the technical part about Elvis. I honestly think he was the most technical recordes singer of all-time. His range was ridiculous. He could sing rock, ballads, country, gospel, etc. He could sing, low, high, raspy, falseto, etc. I've never heard him a bad note. And like Plant, he had at least 4 major voice changes,possibly 6. 53-59, 60-67, 68-70, 71-77.

    Edit: Seen you clarified. But the dude had range. :)


  18. 4 hours ago, the-ocean87 said:

    Just for those who know Elvis only from his movies:

     

    The guys range was ridiculous and I think this video left out some good clips that show him go higher but not in falsetto. 

    Honestly, I think Elvis is the only male singer I've heard that sings the way did from 54-77, in all kinds of styles that never hit a bad note. And I've listened trying to hear him mess up, he was human after all. Never heard it, just true talent.


  19. 4 hours ago, paplbojo said:

    False

    Well since Elvis is the king of Rock-N-Roll I do think he deserves the #1 spot. Your free to put Plant at second, though. You can debate Plant against anybody for #2 but Elvis top dog singer.

    You can really think of #2 as #1 because of Elvis.


  20. Who had the biggest voice change, in your opinion?

    Elvis had a drastic change in voice from 54-77, though he never lost any of his singing voice.

    Plant also had a drastic change from 67-80, of course losing range.

    But what is surprising is they both had their most powerful voice from 68-71. Listen to first 4 LZ albums or youtube Robert Plant - Operator. Insane.

    And I dare you to listen to the Elvis Comeback Special from 1968. Pure rawness.

    This is not meant to discuss who's a better singer technically because clearly Elvis was. Although, Robert from 67-71 was an amazing singer. He never lost his lower range and could always sing very 72-80, just different.

    They both had big changes in the sound/tone of their voices. What's your thoughts.


  21. 8 hours ago, blindwillie127 said:

    I've always felt that Swan Song really deserved a JPJ string arrangement to take it to the next level. Of course, Plants lyrics/vocals would have also greatly enhanced everything as well, but I guess he was just wasn't feeling it. Its understandable as the song does meander about a bit too much, but given the proper attention by the whole band, I think it could have been a good LZ song, and at the very least, a great outtake. As is though? Its just missing too much for me to ever get excited about. The song is a little too grandiose and needed to be tightened up and pieced together in a more fluid manner, IMO.

    Yeah I agree. It's a little too repetitive. I think words could have changed it a lot or at least different instrument solos.


  22. On 3/30/2018 at 5:19 AM, babysquid said:

    I think people are forgetting that professionally recording live shows in the 1970’s wasn’t a simple task and wasn’t cheap. I’m sure many bands would have loved to have multitracked more concerts but the sheer obstacle of transporting and paying for a mobile unit with all it’s extra equipment and staff , plus the increased set up and preparation times needed, would probably have made it a logistical nightmare.

     

    Good point. But still it seems like they would have wanted to do at least one or maybe two from each tour.

    On a large scale that wouldn't be that many to have done. It looks unlikely that they did but if Page drops something like "here is a pro recorded live show from each tour" that will be insane.

    Probably would cost $1000 :)


  23. 26 minutes ago, Policeman Dressed in Blue said:

    I have a soft spot for ITTOD. I've always thought that the album has a very melancholy feel. When you know it's the end of the road, everything is heard through nostalgic ears. When I hear Hot Dog I can't help but think about 4 young, british boys who don't know each other, but all like the same kind of music and share a passion to bring it further. When I hear I'm Gonna Crawl, I hear the last breath of the monster that was Led Zeppelin, with all the ups and downs it has brought those who knew it better than anyone else. It makes me think about the kings who played heavier and louder than anyone else, and even though they went through some tough shit in their later years, they can still cry the blues better than anyone. I fucking love Led Zeppelin.

    Great description of ITTOD. Kind of how I look at the end too.

    As for songs I like and don't like.

    I love (I think) every song from the first 4 albums. Including these too.

    ● Hey What Can I Do

    ● Baby Come On Home

    ● Travelling Riverside Blues

    ● Long Black Wavy Hair

    ● Night Flight (meant IV)

    ● Black Country Woman (meant for HOTH)

    That's just my stuff right there.

    On HOTH I don't listen to

    ● The Song Remains

    ● Dancing Days

    Honestly, lately I haven't been listening to PG (unless it was stuff meant for previous albums), Prescence, or ITTOD.

     

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