CherrySunburstWorshiper
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Posts posted by CherrySunburstWorshiper
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4 hours ago, the chase said:
What I've heard is John Bonham kicked the guy in the family jewels and then jumped back onstage.. No denying he assaulted him, but he didn't almost kill him.
Grant and Bindon were later on in the day and more severe..
In the book When Giants Walked The Earth, Bonham was in the room and had to be pulled out for fear of injury and/or he had to go on stage. Can't remember. It was kind of a shitty book at times and great at times as well. Lots of negativity qualfied by the fact the author had a lot of access to Plant over the years. So he cites many sources close to Plant, but nothing first hand. He said the whole band had to get out of Dodge quick as Bill Graham was pressing charges and, that being their last gig that tour it was lucky they could return to England. He (the author) says Grant's son was removing Bonham's name plaque from the dressing room door when a security guard hit him on the head with a blackjack from behind.
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7 hours ago, nemophilist said:
I do agree that some people on here have unrealistic expectations for band members, can be both unnecessarily and overly-negative, can be unconsciously judgmental, can act very entitled and in some instances probably don't even understand the band.
That's all I'm saying. You had many other words but said the same exact thing with that single run-on sentence. However, like you, I tend to get a bit wordy. There's nothing wrong with the rest of your comment, I only selected the part relevant to this reply. The other part of my OP about trolls being removed, I do feel that those who spread unfounded rumours as so called "well known facts" should be censured. The moderators, in my humble opinion, have every right to not allow the bands own sanctioned website to be used as a tool to tarnish the very same people who provide the website in the first place. The "Don't shit where you eat" proverb comes to mind. Like, if you can't say "I Heard" as opposed to "It's a well known fact" without citing a reliable source, you deserve whatever comes.
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Where I come from and how I was raised I was taught that if you had nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. Now I have never followed that shit. I told my mother not to let the door hit her where the good lord split her as I wanted privacy while "watching" Olivia Newton John in Xanadu...ahhhh, Xanadu....
But I digress, I recently beame a member here and I am utterly shocked at all the hate for Jimmy and Bonzo and Robert (well maybe not Robert, he talks a lot of smack himself). But seriously, how do you join what is basically a Fan Club, then rip on these guys....
I mean, I get that the outside world doesn't get LZ as a band, but here you'd expect to see those that do. They like the music, they just wish it was someone else playing it. They want album accuracy unless it's one of the Magical Performances. Like, how do you think they got those? And then there are stories of smacking people in the face and threatening to throw guys out of the band, embarrassingly excessive solos and awful skills. Not to mention subterfuge and dishonest product output by Jimmy that goes so far as to claim he can't play for shit but then at 60 he dubbed over his playing at 30. Seriously, where do you get this stuff? There are countless books, interviews, insider gossip and yet so many here run with the insane rumour mill of deranged fans. Stories started by imbeciles, uncorroborated, untrue and petty hurtful towards people they claim to love. I simply don't get it. One would imagine that this is exactly the place you'd go to see others who do get it. And if they don't they'd learn what it was about by the majority of people with love and admiration for a group that did so much for us all. Let alone the impact they had on music in general. The one place where my mother's advice would actually be employed by all. But no. It's all like "oh yeah the songs are great but these guys can't carry a tune." Bonzo can't play drums according one thread, Jimmy's the worst on another and Plant lost his voice in 72 on another. JPJ seems to still fly under the radar, thank god somebody gets a pass, but man, oh man is this the Twilight Zone or what?
They should make another website for Zeppelin Song Fans and relocate these guys there or something. Seperate them from their families at the border so they don't come back and tear gas them to boot. This is a Fan Club for the band. If you rag on that band, you should be removed. Who knows in this crazy place, maybe I get removed for saying that. Say what you want, but cordialy. Fight with each other, of course. Everyone likes a good flame war now and then (except the moderators), but keep the band members sacrosanct. Otherwise; WTF are you doing here?
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On 3/19/2019 at 12:28 PM, Christopher Lees said:
Where can I read about this?
Nowhere because it never happened. Like Paul Rodgers never karate kicked Jimmy on stage for showing up on smack during a Firm concert either. Like Jimmy would do a follow up album with a guy after he put his hands on him, puh-lease! I don't know how people get their rocks off, but I've heard a lot of ridiculousness. Go to youtube and you can watch many, many, many 95 performances. Little Rock must be the only bad one or these posters just don't get this type of live music. Maybe they want sterilized album versions, I don't know. But I saw P&P at MSG in July of 98 then a week or 2 later at Jones Beach. MSG was only ok because the sound bounces off of everything and during Jimmy's shredding it was awful. The PA is coming from behind while the amp is coming from the front, ugh! But that's not Jimmy, that's Madison Square Garden hosting real live music with massive wattage amps. i was sitting pretty close to front row so i had it bad, would have been better to sit in the nosebleeds where the amp doesn't reach fully for those parts. Jones Beach Amphitheatre? Freakin amazing. A natural course for the sound to be pushed, no need for a PA and again, you can see it on yutube. The MSG actually sounds better on the bootleg than it did when I was there and I suspect Little Rock would as well. Jones Beach is exactly how I remember it. But there's a book "When Giants Walked the Earth" written by a reporter with close access to Plant over the post LZ years. He rags on Page quite a bit and if that story were true, it would have been in there. Plant's a Hippie. I mean that it a good way, he would never lay hands on anything, let alone Jimmy.
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On 3/17/2019 at 8:47 AM, NealR2000 said:
I've seen a number of these fly-on-the-wall scenes, as well as read many, where bands come off stage and get into sometimes heated arguments over mistakes made during the performance. I don't recall reading anything about similar happenings with Zep. Does anyone know any different? On one hand, I suspect there were some, as Zep live wasn't always great, but on the other hand, I'm not so sure as the one at "fault" was invariably Page, and what with his position, I'm not sure any of the others would say anything. Don't get me wrong, I don't think any of the others were in awe of Page or intimidated by him, but I just don't see any of them challenging his musicianship.
There's an interview with other members of Page & Plant that admit to back stage arguments between the 2, though they quickly point out that if they chimed in, the 2 teamed up immediately against them, lol. How funny is THAT? I don't think it was ever over mistakes though, I think more Page wanting to extend the improving and Plant wanting more album specific versions with a little bit of improv as well as Jimmy's approach. If he had backing guitars behind him live you wouldn't notice if he dropped a stitch here and there while on stage trying to come up with something new on the spot in front of a live audience as any and every guitarist does unless they play vanilla type music or with too much gain. Boy that gain hides a lot. I play as a hobby and I suck, but turn up that gain boy and I'm freakin Page! But they were a live band who made incredibly popular songs that fans nowadays detest when you play differently. Back then it was expected. When they were at their best the bar was set so high it was almost impossible to live up to it again when you're doing thing on the spot like that. Sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't but for the amount that they did exceed expectations, it's inhuman. but, Plant is notorious for complaining about how JPJ would get on him for not being in key or never having anything nice to say about his singing or something. At some Scandanavian Diamond Award's interview Jonsey says "lyrics were sang beautifuly" talking about Stairway and Plant's eyes pop out of his head and says something like "Wow, that only took what? 24 years?". But, with Jimmy, I truly believe he plays careless just waiting for a mistake because every amazing thing I've ever seen him do, came not too long after he dropped a note or played something on the spot that might not have sounded as good as he thought it would in his head. He winces, then watch out! Not that he wouldn't have preferred not to make one but it's like he's shaking things up that way by putting himself on the spot. I can't know the man's mind, but I believe that's his process and I gotta say, if it is, that takes minerals boy, pure unadulterated giant cajones of brass, or in this case, Led.
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On 4/23/2019 at 7:44 PM, tmtomh said:
Two qualifiers:
1. These are just my personal favorites - I don't claim these necessarily are "the best."
2. For some albums (especially III and PG) it's very a very close call between the track I've listed and one or more other candidates.
That said, here's my list:
I - Dazed and Confused
II - Whole Lotta Love
III - That's the Way
IV - Levee
Houses - The Rain Song
PG - In My Time of Dying
Presence - Tea for One
In Through the Out Door - Fool in the Rain
Coda - Wearing and Tearing
14 hours ago, June72 said:The age old question.
Led Zeppelin - Choosing between Dazed and Confused and How Many More Times is getting too difficult.
Led Zeppelin II - Another extremely tough choice, but I'll go with Bring It On Home.
Led Zeppelin III - That's the Way
Led Zeppelin IV - Going to California
Houses of the Holy - Over the Hills and Far Away
Physical Graffiti - In My Time of Dying, but tomorrow it could be any of the other 3 epics.
Presence - Achilles Last Stand
In Through the Out Door - I'm Gonna Crawl
I love it! Like me you guys can't choose just one because it's very hard to say what you like "more". And every "Best" is subjective. There can be no wrong answer.
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On 6/20/2014 at 7:36 PM, aen27 said:
Of the choices listed I'm Gonna Crawl.
My favorite is The Ocean.
Yeah, is that the one where you hear Bonzo yell out "That's gonna be the one, eh Jimmy?"
Definitely my fave...
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Jimmy
Larry Lalonde (Primus)
Chuck Berry
Noel Bradley (Sublime)
Scrapper Blackwell (The guy who wrote Kokomo Blues, better known as Sweet Home Chicago)
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Bonzo
Tim Herb Alexander (Primus)
Dave Grohl
Bill Ward
Ginger Baker
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Could you do Surgical Stainless Steel?
My sweat is like battery acid.
I can't wear silver as it causes a terrible rash, maybe I'm a vampire lol.
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I tried to delete this as I found the same topic here in the Polls section where this got moved to, but I couldnt so....
In my defense, the moderator is stretching the least known use of the word Poll to define what we are doing. Polls are more for measuring, not compiling a list for the purpose of rating. If I supplied the list and asked everyone to rate it, that would be a poll. Putting this here you might as well put every question asked everywhere on the forums here.
Finally, an interesting article on Led Zeppelin where the author's choices aren't meant to start a war in the comments sections. Sure we all have our own personal lists, but you can respect the choices. In other words, the author didn't choose the Highbrow options to put on airs nor did he go with the Radio Hits exclusively. Nice job mixing it up imho.
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/best-led-zeppelin-songs/
My list would be
I: Good Times (yeah, I'm easy to please sometimes) but It does vary from time to time with Your Time is Gonna Come as well as Babe I'm Gonna Leave You and honestly, the Covers as well. It's safe to say that if I were stuck on a deserted island with only one choice of album, this'd be it without hesitation.
II: Ramble On
III: Varies from Friends and Hats Off To Roy Harper
IV: When The Levee Breaks
Houses: The Ocean
PG: Varies from In My Time of Dying and Sick Again
Presence: Achilles or Nobody's Fault But Mine
In Through The Out Door: Fool In The Rain or Hot Dog
Coda: Poor Tom
Yea, I am the worst at this because I cannot choose just one, lol. If I made a list 10 years ago it would be all different as it will be ten years from now. Actually saying that makes me want to add Ten Years gone to PG's list. Someone else asked on these forums for people's top ten, I screwed that up too and probably, if you compare these answers ot those you'll find inconsistencies again, lol, can't help it. And I'm sure there has to be another post here somewhere asking this very same question, but I didn't see it so maybe it's time for a refresher.
What's your favorite on each album?
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3 hours ago, SteveAJones said:
Cat often used to share articles written by others. She seldom if ever commented on them.
That was a possibility and why I qualified my use of the term "you".
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On 2/8/2008 at 4:19 PM, Cat said:
Coverdale/PageEntertainment Weekly April 2, 1993
FEW REASONS to consider buying the first collaboration by ex-Led Zeppelin guitarist Jimmy Page and ex-Whitesnake singer David Coverdale:
(1) You've worn out the CD grooves on your Zeppelin boxed set, so you'll settle for Page and Robert Plant manque Coverdale's attempt to re-create the monolithic Led Zep sound. As they used to say on TV--not the real thing, but an incredible simulation!
Actually it is very different from LZ. It is Blues based hard rock, but then the similarities end. Coverdale has a much greater range and Jimmy shows he's still got the touch.
(2) As Zep simulations go, it is pretty incredible, if pointless. Page and Coverdale have written a batch of new songs that try very, very hard to echo Zep anthems like "Whole Lotta Love" and "Kashmir," and Coverdale tosses off Plantlike groans and moans even more than he did in Whitesnake, that other Zep tribute band.
Yeah, I bought this album in 93 and listen to it as much as any LZ album. Please list where Whole Lotta Love and Kashmir are ripped off. Feeling Hot is a bit of a rework of R&R, but any 12 barre in that timing would be. It is also MUCH heavier than any LZ album. More crunch than Jimmy ever used with Zep and Zeppelin were known for Ballads, Not Anthems. That was Queen.
(3) You relish the idea of hearing grizzled rock stud Coverdale pursing his lips around lyrics like "'Scuse me if my tongue gets tired/An' I will make some sweet love to you." You'll also love it if you like hearing women referred to as "babe," "child," and "mama."
What's your point? Women use the same exact euphemisms for men. Insecure much? or just lacking in a loved one to share your euphemisms with...
Chick, Hottie, Shorty, Trim, Talent, Piece (and more vulgar terms I have omitted); These are the euphemisms that are derogatory and demeaning.
(4) You want to show support for poor Jimmy Page, who's reduced to grave-robbing his own past to earn a living.
Reduced ?!?! I guess you also throw shade on Chuck Berry, John Fogerty, Muddy Waters, Bo Didley, etc, just because they didn't bother to write new stuff that sucks for the sake of it knowing full well it's their performances of their original creations that bring audiences to their shows as well as pay for the new stuff. Regardless of the fact that the new stuff will dissolve into the ether, never to be heard again a mere month or two after it's release. It's sad that others throw shade, I believe it keeps him from playing as much as he'd like to. But he seems to take the negativity to heart and doesn't need the money so he abstains. Definitely our loss.
But lets not forget; The footprints in music that all these names have in common are so big they can never be filled. Why, when you love something so much, must you change for changes sake?
(5) You hate Robert Plant so much for not partaking in a full-time Zep reunion that you'll do anything to spite him--even buy this album.
The only point I agree with. It does bother Plant and he said as much at the time of release. Unfortunately David was born with blonde hair and is singing for as long as Plant has been. He just didn't get famous first and Plant does write better lyrics. David's are great, but Plant took it to a level he himself has not seen since he's been a solo act. Makes you wonder how inspirational Page is for him, if not assisting directly. But David was born with the voice he has, just like the kid in GVF. You cannot sound like somebody you don't sound like naturally. Not singing anyway. You have a range and a frequency you are born with and you can strengthen it, but you cannot change your frequency.
(6) For the oh-so-enigmatic cover art, which kind of, almost, sort of brings to mind the covers of Zep albums like Presence. But only kind of.
Again, strectching pretty far here, as you yourself admit.
I have addressed every comment in red. By not actually posting a comment yourself and silence being affirmation, it is clear you agree with this tripe. So I say "you" in my responses.
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For me it's a toss up between some of the P&P performances and the Black Crowes featuring Jimmy Page. I will say the Crowes only because I feel it is a testament to what he could do with back up guitars behind him, though you really need to stick to a script in that format. Jimmy doesn't like sticking to a script and most of us don't want to hear him stick to one either. But I'd say Ten Years Gone, Custard Pie, Sick Again and In My Time of Dying are the best live performances of these songs. And as for Page & Plant, The Rain Song perfomance has no equal on this planet and of the other live shows, albeit mostly scripted as well, has video on youtube of the New Orleans' concert where Jimmy very much went off script and the best of that set definitely, probably the best version of Heartbreaker you'll ever hear. When you consider how many great performances of that song exist, that's saying something.
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Bonzo's Montreux. I don't like drum songs. I love Bonham, but I never did and still don't care about Moby Dick except for the guitar licks. I don't dislike it, but it's not my cup of tea just like every other drum song. Bonzo's Montreux on the other hand, while I didn't like it at first, grew on me. Now, I know it by heart.
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On 5/8/2018 at 3:47 AM, rm2551 said:
rounding down to 10 is cruel.
Ditto
It would be easier to list my least liked songs. there is only one song I don't care for too much and no songs I dislike. I count everything that was a complete song. Would have loved to hear St. Tristan's Sword in it's final form though. (as a notable mention)
In the Light. Like it, don't love it, but when I'm in a certain mood, I do love it.
Tea for One. Same deal.
All of My Love. Same Deal
Ozone Baby. It's wierd to swing so far, but sometimes I love it and sometimes, meh. Wouldn't say I dislike it, but wouldn't say I like it either.
Moby Dick. Not a fan of Drum Solo songs. Love the guitar riffs and parts of the drumming. Very rarely listen to it all the way through and only a handful of times after BBC came out. The Girl I Love has a similar structured riff and so I just go with that. Only when I want to hear the licks will I put MD on.
Sugar Mama, meh...
Seriously, there are a lot of songs and any one of the rest can be in my top ten at a given time.
Wearing and Tearing, Hot Dog...the lot of 'em. And I could list songs that are usually in my top ten:
Over the hills...
What is...
Since I've Been...
For Your Life...
Poor Tom...
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14 minutes ago, the chase said:Quote
Hey a good debate is healthy. I don’t agree with alot of posts and opinions on this whole webpage. I’m so tired of reading posts of people slagging a 75 year old Jimmy Page for not working harder... It gets old.. He looks happy, healthy, content clean and sober.. but I wouldn’t want anyone to not post their opinions or get banned or run out of town either. Jimmy kind of asked for it.. I know. Just be prepared for a response if you throw anything out there. Simple as that. Just like I’ll hear about that remark.. it’s all good.
Besides the Patriots won their 6th Super Bowl last week..,
Kudos
I like to think Page is just that player who, to stay true to his philosophy, purposely stays unfresh so as to make it interesting when he does play. The only other options are:
Play the same songs over and over till you shoot yourself
or
Don't play the fan favorites and piss everyone off.
It's not Jimmy's fault that most everything he did is a fan favorite, then again...
And I'm still ticked about not getting my bet in on time. Until this last one, I had bet on every Patriot SB win. Not a Pats fan, but one of the few who respect them for their greatness anyway. I am a Yankee fan and know all too well the haters. I can't bring myself to do that. Plus, it would diminish the hate I have for the Red Sox, so.....
(does this mean we can't be friends?)
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15 hours ago, JTM said:
You asked why Gibsonfan159 was here. The way I see it he is participating in this thread by throwing out controversial opinions, in my view that involves negativity. So please put your "0 for 2" where the sun doesn't shine.
Not here on the thread you dolt, why join a fan website of a band you clearly don't like. My point, if I haven't made it abundantly clear already, is that he shouldn't have even seen the thread because he has such disdain for the band in general, save Robert and not by much, logic would dictate this website would be the last place he'd register on. IT's INUENDO!!!!!!!
And I think there are enough examples in this thread to illustrate my point about contraversy vs pure trolling. And again, the real point of this thread is to spark debate. Smething it has clearly done, breathing life into an otherwise lacking Forums with 2 year old threads still topping the menu. Except of course for these sidebars where people have to explain themselves about explaining themselves...
Stick that In U End Tho...
(I couldn't help myself on that one)
11 hours ago, Brigante said:'Real drummers', 'proper drummers, 'playing to impress' and 'mediocre technically' - four quotes from this thread which give you a clue about Gibson's priorities.
Fuck the content, stand back in amazement at the technical ability.
Yeah, that Shakespeare - couldn't spell his own name the same way twice, what a shit writer, eh...?
Brilliant!
Screw Roy, hats off to you...
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Listen to Adele's Rumor Has It and tell me that ain't the drum track from Boogie with Stu. It starts to sound like it about 50 seconds in.
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26 minutes ago, the chase said:
. And it comes up in every interview. He got Bonzo his Ludwig endorsement. Exact kit as his and on and on. Every interview.. word for word.
Carmine is cool and a great drummer, but that gets a little annoying.
Yeah, I was just playing Devil's Advocate with my reference, but it seems like he's star struck or, Bonzo Struck, and has taken an acorn and made a great big Oak Tree of BS out of it...
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2 minutes ago, SteveAJones said:
Exactly! Further, John's sister Deborah, who was there, has talked about fellow drummers being transfixed on Bonzo's foot work circa '66-'67. Bonzo may have needed Carmine's mentorship on becoming a star, but he sure as hell didn't need anyone's mentorship on how to play the kit!
So that last part he does, Bonzo ends maybe Rock n Roll (I forget now) on How the West was Won, but like a friggin jackhammer, but still with rhythm. Not just louder and faster, but way louder and faster. To the point where you barely hear the drums he's hitting with the sticks. Even at low volume you feel it hit your chest.
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1 minute ago, SteveAJones said:
No, there's a connection and an influence and all of that but Carmine simply goes to far. He claims Bonham considered him one of his IDOLS. Give me a break! Carmine was only two years older than Bonzo, and Bonzo was NOT an unknown when they met. Bonham was relatively well known in and around Birmingham for his ferocious playing and volume as far back as '66-'67.
I agree. I was only refering to the one reference, I don't watch many Carmine Apice videos though I would certainly reject anything further. There might not be many interviews with Bonham, but the one's that are around don't mention him. They do mention ABBA, but let's not go there...
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2 minutes ago, the chase said:
Thanks. I liked your Daddy’s quote.
He has his moments.
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2 minutes ago, the chase said:
Sorry I was just trying to lighten things up around here.. Carmine loved Bonham and even dedicated a solo album to him.
Nah nah, we're all good bro. Love your posts. you handled Gibson better than I did...
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4 minutes ago, Christopher Lees said:
Never one of my favorites. In 30 something years, I've probably listened to it 5 times. However, I could see swapping it in for Hats Off to Roy Harper.
Ouch! Fair enough. I, on the other hand find it's one of the best Blues Songs ever. Hats off is great too. I like Furry Lewis more than the Bukka White version and find Hats Off to be some combination of the two.
But Poor Tom I could listen to over and over...Maybe I'm a masogynist or something and just like the fact that Annie gets hers in the end...
What's With All The Hate
in Led Zeppelin Master Forum
Posted · Edited by CherrySunburstWorshiper
I am not arguing, just clarifying. I don't want anyone to think I want the site sanitized or censored. So here's an example.
If someone says "Jimmy sucks and can't play for shit". I'm fine with that. I don't know what that person is doing here, but they're entitled. And btw, all opinions are subjective. That's what subjective means.
Here's where it gets dodgy because I don't want to cite actual comments and start a war.
If someone says (and this is hypothetical in case there is such a comment that I haven't seen) " Jimmy can't play and doesn't even know how, it's a common fact that he was playing with So & So and didn't know what an A chord was. I know, I was there, I saw it!" or "it's well documented" but then when you go to look it up, it ain't cause it never happened. I say "Fuck that guy and good riddance!".
Right now there's another conversation on this very thread that I am a part of and it is a Hearsay discussion over a rumour from 77. I'm actually participating in said conversation. I have no problem with it. You can google it and find that in fact it is very well spoken about from multiple sources. Again, I wasn't there so I don't know and I've never heard or seen anything from someone with first hand knowledge.
But, my call for the moderators to do something in the first place is more of an outburst than a legitimate call for it. Like saying Soy Milk should not be allowed to call itself Milk. I do feel that way, but I don't really care. Wanting to plug how hot Olivia Newton John was was as much motivation for the OP as the rest of it.