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Michael Fry

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    1973 MSG Live: The Alternate Song Remains The Same

    in Led Zeppelin Live

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Unseenguest said:

    hey brother. this looks very nice. great detail on this project, always appreciate the professionalism.

    i have crystal clear memories of listing to the original album when i was a young teenager, made a tremendous impact on me. 

    a while back i wrote a little post on using Artificial Intelligence to improve live Led Zeppelin recordings. if you have not already checked it out, if time allows and you are interested, you should check it out...

    i would love to hear any details on how you assembled this new version and what methods / software etc. you used.

     

    have you seen these ? 

    and this is wonderful:

    his playing at 37:50, during that really cool funky part of No Quarter, is very impressive. i listen to as much live Led Zeppelin as possible, often i zone in on a couple songs to determine how "on" the band is that night: the solo in the middle of OTHAFA, pretty much all of TSRTS [ especially the tasteful build up during the guitar solo 2/3rds of the way through the song ,]  the solo in SIBLY and the middle part of NQ.

    i hope some of this is new to you. keep up the good work.

    if you are feeling generous i would love an audio link to this so i can check out your work.

    JAH bless.

    unseenguest / matthew

    Thank you for all this. I'm going to sink my teeth into your article properly this evening with a beer or three! Familiar with the 1st clip but the 2nd? Woah! This guy's talent and dedication is mind-blowing. Moby Dick!!!

    In answer to your query, my editing software is either Nero or Audacity. Nero is incredible for cross-fading and you can even fade in and out effects so that a change in EQ or reverb, for example, can be gradual and unnoticeable. Audacity is perfect for pretty much everything else, especially with the latest version. And it's free! I even use it for mixing 5.1 using multitracks and stems for projects such as the early Beatles albums that Giles Martin hasn't tackled yet. So nothing fancy!

    Funny, I zone in on the same moments as you to tell whether the band are on that particular night. I'll PM you a link to my whole project. Cheers!

    1973 MSG Live: The Alternate Song Remains The Same

    in Led Zeppelin Live

    Posted

    The Alternate Song Remains The Same:

    Did this just for a bit of holiday fun. Meant to do it ages ago and finally found the time! The link is over at Guitars101 and easy to find but feel free to PM for a link if you fancy a new(ish!) listening experience.

    01 Rock And Roll (28-7-73)
    02 Celebration Day (28-7-73)
    03 Bring It On Home - Black Dog (29-7-73)
    04 Over The Hills And Far Away (29-7-73)
    05 Misty Mountain Hop (28-7-73)
    06 Since I've Been Loving You (28-7-73)
    07 No Quarter (29-7-73)
    08 The Song Remains The Same (29-7-73)
    09 The Rain Song (29-7-73)
    10 Dazed And Confused (28-7-73)
    11 Stairway To Heaven (28-7-73)
    12 Moby Dick (27-7-73)
    13 Heartbreaker (29-7-73)
    14 Whole Lotta Love (29-7-73)
    15 The Ocean (29-7-73)

    A word of explanation (Apologies if most of it is teaching granny how to suck eggs for you lot!)
    This compilation serves as a companion volume to the re-edit of The Song Remains The Same I made in 2020. I created that because I find the 2007 reissue an extremely frustrating listen, despite having great love for the original album (probably my favourite ever live album). It unfortunately uses some performances and clumsy edits that were chosen purely to match the visuals of the film rather than using the superior performances chosen for the original album. While I never find myself wanting to listen to the reissue, I often want to listen to a more complete version of the original album, hence my 2020 re-edit.
    However, this new alternate version recognises that there were many other great performances during the 3 nights at Madison Square Garden that were perhaps used in the film but not the album or that were only used as edits and for fixing mistakes, or that weren't used at all. The fantastic Garden Tapes website goes into mind-bending detail of how each song was constructed for the film, album and 2007 reissue and I have summarised this research in the info below by firstly stating the night that was used as the main source and then any other nights used for major edits. This was so I could ensure the new alternate album presented a complete show made from Madison Square Garden performances that were either completely unused for the official film and album or were only partially used as an edit. The exceptions to this are: 1) Celebration Day which is the same performance that can be found as an extra on the 2007 DVD reissue as it contains a different guitar solo to the one found on the original album and 2) Bring It On Home as I didn't want to split this from the Black Dog performance I chose which is the one from the film but complete and unedited. (Even the CD reissue inexplicably uses the edited version!)
    Some choices weren't really choices at all as unfortunately the 1st part of the 27th has never been bootlegged and the soundboards are all incomplete. I was determined not to use any audience recordings for this so there were a couple of alternate performances I couldn't use. My only source is Empress Valley's 18CD Garden Tapes Box Set but I have fixed just a few things. I've tidied up a timing issue in Dazed And Confused towards the end, removed the very brief audience source from No Quarter but made the cut as seamless as possible, fixed a couple of bars of wrong notes in The Rain Song, No Quarter and Heartbreaker and replaced the audience source that EVSD used to complete Bonzo's Ocean count-in with his hilarious count-in from the 28th soundboard.
    There are some absolute treats here for those of you who only know the album and the film. If Jimmy Page had treated us to a proper multi-disc box set back in 2018, this is what I would have loved to have seen as discs 4, 5 and 6 alongside a 3 disc expanded version of the original album similar to my 2020 re-edit. Every now and then you'll recognise a snippet that was used as an edit piece for the official releases (and you can verify that using the info below and The Garden Tapes website) but as a complete listening experience it should be quite unique and almost equal to the versions we know and love. By the way, hats off to anyone who can EQ the 28th and 29th soundboards to sound the same. I know the difference in guitar sound between the end of Celebration Day and Bring It On Home riff is rather obvious. Feedback welcome!


    Performances used in the original film and reissue

    Rock And Roll: 27
    Celebration Day: 28 (DVD extra)
    Bring It On Home: 29
    Black Dog (version 1): 29 - edited
    Black Dog (version 2): 28 - complete (2003 DVD)
    Over The Hills And Far Away: 28 (DVD extra)
    Misty Mountain Hop: 27 + 28 for middle min (DVD extra)
    Since I've Been Loving You: 29 main + 27
    No Quarter: 28 for solo to end + 27 for 1st 3 mins
    The Song Remains The Same: 28
    The Rain Song: 28
    Dazed And Confused: 27 + 28 for 3rd verse + 29 for ending
    Stairway To Heaven: 27 + 28 for vocal end
    Moby Dick: 27 - edited + 28 for 1st 2 mins of drum solo
    Heartbreaker: 27
    Whole Lotta Love: 27
    The Ocean: 27 + 29 for guitar solo + coda (DVD extra)


    Performances used on the original album and reissue

    Rock And Roll: 27 + 28 for 1st min
    Celebration Day: 28 + 29 for last min
    Bring It On Home: 27 (reissue)
    Black Dog: 29 + 28 for 1st min - edited (reissue)
    Over The Hills And Far Away: 28 (reissue)
    Misty Mountain Hop: 27 + 28 for middle min (reissue)
    Since I've Been Loving You: 27 main + 29 (reissue)
    No Quarter: As film but 27 for solo end
    The Song Remains The Same: 28
    The Rain Song: 28
    Dazed And Confused: 27
    Stairway To Heaven: As film but 29 for 1st 2 mins
    Moby Dick: 28 - edited
    Heartbreaker: 27 (reissue)
    Whole Lotta Love: 27
    The Ocean: 27 + 29 for guitar solo + coda (reissue)

    All above info included in the download.
    You'll notice I stayed away from using the 27th apart from the complete killer Moby Dick which was chopped up so much in the film. The 27th was the night that Jimmy used most on the album as perhaps it was the strongest night overall but that 28th Dazed And Confused and 29th Whole Lotta Love show how easy it is to get 2 strong albums out of those Garden performances.
    Enjoy!

    Most complete, best sounding version of BBC 1971?

    in Led Zeppelin Live

    Posted · Edited by Michael Fry

    Hi y'all! Anyone able to help me out with the quest for the ultimate version of the 1971 BBC performance? I found a thread which is a fantastic source of info about this but it's over a decade out of date.

    https://forums.ledzeppelin.com/topic/15063-led-zepplin-master-tape-paris-theatre-1971/

    At the moment, the Prof. Stoned version is looking like a potential winner. It sounds great but does anyone know if it is truly complete? If not, what's missing? Also, there are other older versions out there that claim to be complete but the stereo panning is pretty bad, the sound is quite thin and the guitar lacks oomph.

    Hope some knowledgeable souls can impart their wisdom on this!

     

    Vancouver 1971 - 2nd Aud Source, with missing tracks

    in Led Zeppelin Live

    Posted

    What a wonderful find. To have an incomplete source of enjoyable quality completed by ANOTHER incomplete enjoyable source for such a great gig, with the bonus of there being a rare track ! How lucky are we??!! Super hyped about listening to this show from start to finish. Thank you so much to the taper (so sad they passed and didn't see the pleasure this will bring to us all) and his mate who did the transfer.

    50th Anniversary Box Set

    in Led Zeppelin Live

    Posted

    Well, I'd forgotten how much I changed the track list to be honest - quite a few original selections got dropped, didn't they! It was a while ago but I do remember selecting songs for a few different reasons:

    Firstly, if the song was an amazing performance from an otherwise mediocre show (e.g. Stairway To Heaven from Seattle 1977-7-17);

    Secondly, if I had selected a different night's performance of the song for one of the other compilations but I felt that the performance was so good it still deserved recognition (e.g. Trampled Underfoot from Earls Court 1975-5-24 which is pretty much on a par with the one from the following night that made it onto the Earls Court comp);

    Thirdly, if there was something significant about the song (e.g. When The Levee Breaks from Bloomington 1975-1-18 which is the only soundboard performance that has turned up so far and therefore was included even though the show is weaker than other 1975 shows).

    The soundcheck performances were selected because they're so much fun to listen to and are the best of the bunch from the soundcheck but perhaps they should have been placed as bonus tracks on the 1973 compilation, freeing up space for songs I ultimately left out. A few of the dropped songs ended up on other compilations such as Europe 1973 but I can't remember now why I dropped some of the others, I'm afraid! Maybe I should make discs 7 & 8!

    50th Anniversary Box Set

    in Led Zeppelin Live

    Posted

    On 5/10/2023 at 8:46 AM, right-there said:

    Hi Michael.

    Can I ask why you have passed on February 12 1975 as a 'go to' amongst the best of 1975? "In My Time Of Dying" picks up an honourable mention, but tracks from a set that once had fans gushing are otherwise not featured.

    Best regards, Michael McGennan

    Well, it's all down to Plant's voice, I'm afraid. Remember my mission statement for the 50th Anniversary Set was creating something that was near to official release standard. Once Plant's voice had almost recovered in mid-March and May 1975, it was quite easy to drop in a tiny edit from a different night to replace the odd vocal crack here and there for those performances, hence my preference for those in the compilations. However, the Feb 12th show you refer to has so many vocal flubs, I felt it would have been a rather more dishonest job to get them up to releasable standard, not to mention massively time-consuming! I remember playing a few bits of the Feb 12 concert to a more casual fan and he did grimace quite a few times in response to the vocals, which led me to think it wasn't up to standard, as much as I hate to admit it! That soundboard is pretty unforgiving and the well-known sbd/aud matrix doesn't do much to soften the squeaks and hoarseness. True, it is mostly a wonderful show (apart from Page's playing taking a bit of a downturn after the DAC bow solo) but it just wasn't good enough, like many of the February sbd shows, unfortunately.

    Hope that explains everything.

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