shinedaddy
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Posts posted by shinedaddy
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where timing-wise is he actually shown?
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After or on the way to one of TSRTS premieres/parties?
for some reason the pic wont show up but its on page 36 with Page in the car holding the papers...the other guy is Tommy Bolin.
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After or on the way to one of TSRTS premieres/parties?
the other guy is clearly Tommy Bolin
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I doubt the story. I think Page is being honest here
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I collect Led Zeppelin concert posters. I have for a very long time. I have paid a lot of money in the past and they keep getting more expensive. At this point, I am only able to add 1 poster every 3 or 4 years because I have had them all already or still do. Least I ever paid I think was $200 and most was $9500...a big variable.
By the way, I am always willing to spend to get something I need so if anyone out there has any concert posters that advertise the shows, with ticket information, venue, dates etc I am VERY interested. I will happily pay $5000 for a piece I need.
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You are correct. The perils of posting off the top of one's head!
The first eight dates of the August '70 tour were postponed to allow JPJ to remain
at his father's side. Ultimately, JPJ joined the group for a concert in New Haven, CT
on 8/15/70. The 8/26/70 concert showtime for the Public Hall in Cleveland was moved up from 8:30pm to 5:30pm to allow JPJ to return to England. The 8/27/70 concert set
for the Milwaukee Arena was postponed the morning of on account of the death of JPJ's father the night before. The next concert was Winnepeg Arena on 8/29/70.
They then performed in Milwaukee on 8/31/70.
no worries man, you are still the champ of Zep minutiae
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JPJ's dad died in 8/70. A few shows were rescheduled or cancelled due to this. Dave Lewis' The Concert File backs this up.
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the review actually states nothing about the "master tapes" being used, only that they took the release into the studio and cleaned it up. Sounds like they took Flying Circus itself into a studio and re-EQ'ed it for best effect, nothing more. Show me where ti states the masters were found and used............
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Original Photographs from the 1969 Tour Book - The Visual Thing
Ron Raffaelli photographer or original photographs of the last American concert - Oakland July 24th 1977 by Cruz Montoya Private Eye Photography.Also original photographs of John Bonham and Keith Moon drumming together - L.A. Forum June 23 1977.
Cruz Montoya...that is a name I have not seen in a LOOOONG time. Met him at a record convention by accident and he set me off on collecting everything memorabilia!!! He asked me to come over and catalog his collection, and I did and it was something like 29 pages. He had THOUSANDS of things, some totally rare and cool. This would have been 1989 or so. I started getting very rare pieces soon after but after amassing a large one like Cruz's collection, I sold or traded it all off to concentrate on only concert posters. You cant do it all and do it all well, and concert posters are expensive.
Cruz told me about how they would sometimes use his pics on bootleg LP's in the 1970's. He also attended the LA Blueberry Hill show and he told me that when they were there, before a note was played, the excitement was high. Nobody knew what to expect and of course no one had heard Zep III at that time. He said when they came on and EXPLODED with Immigrant Song the crowd was just fucking floored, totally. They could not believe how heavy it was. I liken it to the scene in The Lord of the Rings movies where Sauron gets killed or whatever and the entire army is literally flattened by a sonic/evil boom.......JUST AWESOME. He said the concert was truly unreal to have seen. I believe him.
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You were talking about Vancouver 72 weren't you or was that someone else ?
oh yeah, that was me
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There are so many concert posters out there that are unique, only one copy existing, that it would be impossible to have a comprehensive collection. I own or have owned several such pieces. There is nothing more rare than a one of one, plus these things sell upwards of $8k sometimes.
I have a shortlist of 2 or 3 posters yet to get that I think are my holy grails as far as collecting Zeppelin, but most of the ones I want I have. I am lucky in that respect but I want those last few!!!
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If you can prove that by having Jimmy or someone else explain that I will buy it. I don't think they do what you say they do (slow that track down for vocals then speed it up) because Roberts voice sounds normal in the beginning but at the end it is altered up moreso. If they did that, because of Roberts vocals are higher than the beginning, the music would be in a different key at the end and it isn't. Not to mention the bleeding and detuned issues from slowing down then speeding it up. Roberts voice is detuned like a chorus pedal or pitch shifter but the track isn't shifted at all.So for the record if you can prove what you said, I'm calling bullshit.
uh, ok, well let me try to explain that they DON'T HAVE TO DO THE WHOLE SONG IF THEY DON'T WANT TO! You can record a higher pitched vocal in just a single phrase if you wanted to. The parts where Robert sounds normal, they probably let him sing along to the track normal speed. SImple enough for ya?
Also what detuned issues? I think you are WAAAAAAAAY overthinking this...it is actually a very simple procedure. Once you play the tape at the correct speed with all the tracks the ONLY thing that will sound odd is the voice, which is slightly higher than it was when recorded because it was recorded at a slightly slower speed.
Also you seem to think that if they slow and speed up a tape manually that the listener will hear these fluctuations on an LP. WRONG!!!! They play the tape back at a constant 30ips, or 15 sometimes, to master or mix etc, so however they got the sounds on the tape, and at whatever speed, are all being played back together at the same speed so the effect is a harmonious, intended sound. You seem to think we should be hearing different keys, detuning, weird splices...I dont know, but the obvious thing is that you have never recorded or been in a studio with tape. You have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!
So I am done here. i cant keep explaining the simplest thing just because some numb-nuts cant understand...if you get it, great. if not, then yeah, I guess you are gonna have to call the whole thing bullshit 'cause you DON'T get it!! I guess everything you dont understand is just utter bullshit then, right?
Maybe someone else with more patience can introduce these concepts to you in a simpler, nicer way but I cant and wont. It's not my fault your dense.
An analogy:I dont understand how to fix a submarine but I also dont go onto submarine fixing websites and shout at people who know more about it, and tell them they dont know shit, just because I DON'T UNDERSTAND! That would make me an IDIOT!!
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WOAH! I'm sorry, dude. No need to get all huffy about it!
And I will readily admit my ignorance to all of this as it's still another month or two before I head off into the recording studio for the first time. I was making the point that to me it sounds like one tone higher and Alvin the Chipmunk would be singing. I don't think Robert ever hit those vocals live, and, quite frankly, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a guy who could...
huffy...ha, good one. My point is, lets keep it real mysterious...not just something one or two people cant figure out or are confused on. I mean hell, some people dont know the lead singer's name but it aint no mystery, you get my point?
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As to Robert's vocals on TSRTS, it may not have been an octave, but close? It sounds like one tone higher and Alvin the Chipmunk would be singing the song, not Robert Plant.
So, a possible unsolved mystery, or no? Just how much were Plant's vocals altered on The Song Remains the Same?
There is NO MYSTERY here. They recorded the instrumental track, regular speed. They played it back a LITTLE slower and had Robert sing over that when they recorded his vocals. They then played it back at regular speed. The instruments went back to their normal pitch and Robert's voice goes a little higher than when he recorded it. NOW Way did he sing it an octave lower than what we are hearing on the LP. My best educated guess, since I actually know what the hell I am talking about here, is that his vocal may have been raised by a third or a fourth, tops! Any more than that and the inflections he would have sang would have sounded weird sped up. Can you imagine him singing some of those lines at a low pitch? There is no way to make a line like California sunlight, Sweet Calcutta Rain sound the way it does if he had sung it low. The pitch we hear is close to the actual pitch he sang it at, case closed. Like I said, maybe a third or a fourth, at MOST!!!
Let's move on to real mysteries here. This one is just a case of either ignorance of studio techniques OR musical theory OR vari-speed possibilites OR whatever, but it aint no mystery!
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Reading back through this thread I came on this one. The vocals raised a whole octave?
An OCTAVE?
I call BS, & I'm quite confident in doing so.
Anyone who has worked in a studio, or even spent a short time playing with a harmoniser, will know that the more the pitch of a source is altered (either by vari-speeding the tape OR by using a harmoniser) the more noticeable it becomes. Shift it too far & it sounds nothing like the original source.
Vocals that had been shifted a whole octave using 1972 technology would be unusable (and things aren't that much better nowadays).
Consider the "noise" guitar solos that Page played in 1977 - the harmoniser was heavily featured on that, raising & lowering the guitar pitch by octaves. Ask yourself this: when it was raised an octave, did it sound like a 12-string guitar? Did it sound like the same guitar, only higher? Or did it sound like some synthetic musical box? Be honest - it sounded nothing like a guitar, did it?
Now imagine Plant's voice run through the same treatment. The result would not sound like his vocals on TSRTS.
Results from vari-speeding would, if anything, be worse. For a start, Plant would have had to sing the song at half speed, holding his breath & sustaining notes twice as long as on the finished record. Then he would have had to match his pronunciation to be exactly paced so as to come out right when doubled in speed (hard to explain, but the middle of words would most likely sound wrong - the internal timing of the word - which is seperate from the timing of the phrase as a whole.
And what would he have had to listen to while he sang at half speed? The whole backing track slowed to half speed? Imagine what a dense mush of noise that would have produced. The difficulties of pitching to it & staying in time with it would be huge. I can't believe that anyone would have ever thought it worth the effort.
So while I could beleive that Plant's vocals had been vari-speeded up a touch, I cannot accept the idea that they were raised a whole octave - IMHO this has to be a case of internet gossip & rumour.
Of course if anyone has a quote from Page saying that's what they did I'll be happy to see it. But I doubt that very much
)I agree totally. The person who said an octave was obviously not a musician and probably meant they were raised, and used THAT term because they had heard it before. They meant to say raised by a tone or two and had no idea how to word it. There is NO WAY IN ANY REALITY THAT IT WAS AN OCTAVE. I would be more likely to believe that the vocals were recorded on the moon that they were raised an octave. I would bet everything I own on it
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Steve, no answer to my "mystery"? Are you stumped or too busy? Here it is again:
Here is one for you.....Peter Clifton and Joe Massot were both hired, seperately and in succession, to film/finish the 1973 footage for TSRTS, filmed during the very last leg of the American 1973 tour....One of them, I forget which now (I believe Clifton), had previously worked with the band and filmed them during their spring 1970 American tour. The question is, what city(ies) did they film in and what constitutes the majority of the footage? Is it black and white, color, live, offstage, or what? And secondly, who currently owns the masters, or do they even exist at all?
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This idea of a "new world rising from the shambles of the old" is expressed quite clearly in the lyrics for 'The Rover' on Physical Graffiti, released four years later.
Insofar as the fourth album I was attempting to focus specifically on the inner artwork
but certainly, the front cover is also mysterious. Does anyone really believe a portrait
found in a Redding junk shop adorns one of the world's most successful rock albums?
Jimmy was so meticulous concerning every possible aspect of this album -- graphics,
the content, the release without a title. Some believe the portrait on the front cover
depicts one of England's most prominent occult figures.
Whom would Jimmy have commissioned to work up an alphabet? Why is this person neither named nor credited? Would Jimmy not have been capable of this task himself?
The Hermit of the Tarot does not bear horns, but The Hermit of Led Zeppelin IV does.
Just an observation on my part. Besides, it's just "Colby's" rendition, right?
Just more mystery concerning Led Zeppelin IV!
I think that my link and my pasted info pretty much confirms that B Colby is a real and distinct person. Mystery solved, right
Here is one for you.....Peter Clifton and Joe Massot were both hired, seperately and in succession, to film/finish the 1973 footage for TSRTS, filmed during the very last leg of the American 1973 tour....One of them, I forget which now (I believe Clifton), had previously worked with the band and filmed them during their spring 1970 American tour. The question is, what city(ies) did they film in and what constitutes the majority of the footage? Is it black and white, color, live, offstage, or what? And secondly, who currently owns the masters, or do they even exist at all?
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/frankzappa/1461452890/
barrington colby artwork
Page: Actually, I tend to agree with you. But I do not know if I'm the best
judge. Robert and I came up with the design of IV together. Robert had
actually bought the print that is on the cover from a junk shop in
Reading. We then came up with the idea of having the picture -- the man
with the sticks -- represent the old way on a demolished building, with
the new way combing up behind it. The illustration on the inside was my
idea. It is the Hermit character from the Tarot, a symbol of self-
reliance and wisdom, and it was drawn by Barrington Colby.
The typeface for the lyrics to Stairway was also my contribution. I found
it in a really old arts ad crafts magazine called Studio, which started
in the late 1800's. I thought the lettering was so interesting, I got
someone to work up a whole alphabet.
also:
Led Zeppelin
I couldn't leave this subject without pointing out that the man in the moon appears to have found his way onto the cover of Led Zeppelin's fourth album. The cover is a painting showing an old man bent under the weight of a large bundle of firewood. I was told that Robert Plant had said that the painting was called "The Hermit", and was by a friend of his called Barrington Colby. I believed that there was a misunderstanding here: because on the reverse of the sleeve, there is another picture of a figure in white holding a lantern, which closely resembles the hermit portrayed on tarot cards. [5].
A few years ago my speculations on this subject were passed on to Barrington Colby, by "Rockhound" from Switzerland, who knows him. The figure in white on the inside cover is Barrington Colby's "Hermit".
But as for the man with the bundle of sticks? well a few years later Chad emailed me with a quote from Jimmy Page on the subject:
Jimmy Page: "I used to spend a lot of time going to junk shops looking for things that other people might have missed. Robert was on a search with me one time, and we went to this place in Reading where things were just piled up on one another. Robert found the picture of the old man with the sticks and suggested that we work it into our cover somehow. So we decided to contrast the modern skyscraper on the back with the old man with the sticks - you see the destruction of the old, and the new coming forward.
'Our hearts were as much in tune with the old ways as with what was happening, though we weren't always in agreement with the new. But I think the important thing was we were certainly keeping space...if not going beyond it. The inside cover was painted by a friend of mine. It's basically an illustration of a seeker aspiring to the light of truth.'"
I LOVE the way that the web allows me to ask strange, questions on obscure topics and get answers from complete strangers! But I still don't know who painted the old man with the bundle of sticks (rather disrespectful of Page and Plant not to credit the artist, on the album sleeve, unless the painting was by that greatest artist, songwriter and poet: Anon :-). And does the picture represent the man in the moon? The answers may be lost in the mists of time, but I have a strange feeling that somebody on the web knows. So if you can shed any more light on the subject, please leave a message in the guestbook
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these pics were taken in 1970, positively. I cant believe that everyone here cant see that clearly!
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John Bonham's motorcycle at auction
in News
Posted
I got to sit on the bike at the winner's house. very nice. he complained about the winning price of course. hahah. cool bike