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Bloco or Scott, do you have any information regarding dates Plant worked for Wimpey in Birmingham? I've seen conflicting dates published, either in 1966 or 1967. Plant also worked for Woolworths in Halesowen.
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Hello Mr E,
I just did the complete read and as a long time time fan, nothing new. The photos are great and the press releases, pull outs, etc are nice. But I was not overly impressed.
In the preface he did state that the best way to experience the book would be to play the corresponding album while reading each chapter. And he did have a great take on the media's response to LZ. However, there were a few comments that did not need to be part of the book.
My next read is When Giants Walked The Earth by Mick Wall.
If you get a chance, read Steve Sauer's review of Cross' book. He found it riddled with factual errors.
Meg
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Ok i have been reading different speculations about this for a long time and im not saying anyone is right or wrong (because the only person who really knows is jimmy himself) but i would like to hear everyones opinion. What do you think Zoso means?
If you do a search of the forums you can find plenty of discussions about this. What is "ZoSo"? To me it's a sigil representing Jimmy's astrological sun sign of Capricorn, ruled by the planet Saturn.
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Elsewhere on this forum there's a thread discussing Tim Rose, and it lists 3 tourdates in July 1968 which perfectly match these 3 dates in May (i.e., Grimsby 7/19, Beckenham 7/20, Nottingham 7/21).
I think it's safe to say that those "July" dates are incorrect. Now we just need to figure out if Bonzo was touring with Tim Rose in May!
The July dates are correct. My understanding of those May dates were that they were cancelled and rescheduled for July. Before Tim Rose died, on his official site there used to be a forum with many posts from fans recollecting seeing Tim during the 1968 tours. Sadly the forum was removed but I do recall some posts about Visa problems and a dispute with the promoter over monies.
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Given Bill's recollection, and we have a Woolpack date of the 27th July, I would venture to guess that Plant was in Pangbourne sometime between the 22nd and the 26th. Plant returning to Walsall on the 27th to tell members of Obs-Tweedle he has signed up with Jimmy's band, and the offer made to Bill to join Terry Reid's band.
Band of Joy split in March 1968. Tim Rose didn't return to the UK until June 1968. There is a 3 month gap there. It is quite likely Bonham must have been playing for some band between Band of Joy and Tim Rose.
Meg
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I'm assuming the "lamentable" publicity stunts refers to the "King of the Midlands Flower People" demonstration outside the court, but as it says "stunts," plural, was he involved in anything else?
YMMV on this but Robert one time was also offering the services of the Band of Joy to play for world peace for free anywhere on the planet. There exists a photograph of Robert outside the Charge d'Affaires of the Republic of China, holding a letter, dated 15 November 1967.
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Meg,
The first time I read this I thought the same thing. But when I looked closer, it appears that Bonzo intended to play with "Uncle Joseph" AFTER he concluded his tour with Tim Rose. Needless to say, those intentions changed after Page saw Bonzo play with Rose at the Country Club on 7/31/68 and subsequently convinced him to join the band.
The report says "and is now with Uncle Joseph", and the date of the report is the 18th, so I'm inclined to believe he was "de facto" with the band, given Tim Rose's bass player was also with Uncle Joseph. In a previous, different thread, we established that Tim Rose used another drummer on his BBC recording session in London. It's quite possible that when John wasn't drumming with Tim, he was performing with Uncle Joseph, although I'd like to see some advertised gigs for this. There is also gaps between when the Band of Joy broke up and Tim Rose's early dates.
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Not sure if this might be of interest-
Thanks Chris, so John also played in Uncle Joe, interesting. And a report Tim Rose's bass player was John Hill.
Meg
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For your consideration..I don't think I've put these on here before-
Going over what Bill told me, he states that Obs-Tweedle finally folded after a gig at the Woolpack. Robert turned up to offer Bill the keyboard position with Terry Reid, as a gesture of goodwill after leaving Obs-Tweedle. Terry had previously asked Robert if he knew any keyboard players, he was auditioning for his tour and debut recording.
Meg
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Some Alexis Korner dates from Melody Maker, incomplete list.
Saturday 8 March 1968
Middle Earth Club, London
with Fleetwood Mac, Bruno's Blues Band, DJ Jeff Dexter
Thursday 24 March 1968
Frankfurt Jazz Festival, Frankfurt, Germany
Sunday 13 April 1968
Roundhouse, Chalk Farm
with P.P. Arnold, and C.A.S.T.
Friday 19 April 1968
Korner's 40th Birthday Party, Queensway
with John Mayall's Bluesbreakers
April-May
Recording sessions at Sound Techniques Studios, London
Friday 3 May 1968
Rutherford College, Kent
with The Pentangle, Moe, and Dorris Henderson
Thursday 9 May 1968
Audimax Pop Festival, Star Club, Hamburg, Germany
Friday 17 May 1968
Middle Earth Club, London
with Pink Floyd, Free, DJ Jeff Dexter, and Chakra
Sunday 19 May 1968
The Civic Centre, Swiss Cottage NW3
"Alexis Korner presents the Submerged Seven Eighths of the Blues with actor Alexis Kanner"
Sunday 26 May 1968
OZ Benefit, Middle Earth Club, London
with The Pretty Things, Social Deviants, Blonde On Blonde, Pink Floyd, Miss Kelly, The Flamingoes, Buzby Lloyd, John Peel, Jeff Dexter and The Transcendental Aurora Light Show
Monday 27 May 1968
Folk at the Garter, Star and Garter, Bromley
with Pete Brown's Poetry Band, King Ida's Watch Chain, Mike Hawkins, Mike Horovitz, Brian Patten, Priests of the Raven
Friday 21 June 1968
New Universities Festival, Bradford University Union, Bradford
with Champion Jack Dupree, 'Midsummer Night's Dream' with Fleetwood Mac, Hedgehoppers Anon., Blossom Toes & Amboy Dukes.
Wednesday 26 June 1968
Hampstead Country Club, Hampstead
Saturday 6 July 1968
Woburn Music Festival, Bedfordshire
with Jimi Hendrix, Pentangle, Donovan, Fleetwood Mac, John Mayall, The Taste, Geno Washington, Tyrannosaurus Rex, Roy Harper, Al Stewart
Tuesday 9 July 1968
The Blues Roll On, BBC Radio 3
Tuesday 16 July 1968
The Blues Roll On, BBC Radio 3
Tuesday 23 July 1968
The Blues Roll On, BBC Radio 3
Sunday 11 August 1968
8th national Jazz, Pop, Ballads & Blues Festival, Sunbury, Berkshire
Host
Monday 12 August 1968
London Jazz Centre, 100 Oxford Street
with Chris McGregor and Sandy Brown
Thursday 26 September 1968
International Essen Song Day, Grugahalle, Essen, Germany
Thursday 17 October 1968
Porchester Hall, Queensway
with Roy Harper, Pete Brown, Deviants, and The Action
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Another entry... The Origin of the Species, page 189
"Alexis Korner poked his head into the bandroom [at the Speakeasy] afterwards. He and Robert began talking blues, partly because they both remembered Plant as a Crawling King Snake once volunteering, nay, insisting, on blowing harmonica druing Korner's second set at Kidderminster's Cannon Hill Arts Centre a while back.
Had Robert ever enjoyed a more interesting conversation? The feeling seemed to be reciprocal, and it wasn't long before Plant and Korner started working together, on and off, as a duo of the same kidney as those with whom Robert had performed in the folk clubs. With pianist Steve Miller, they also attempted to tape an album that was aborted after two weeks. 'Operator' and 'Steal Away', a fragment of which was to be quoted in Led Zeppelin's 'How Many More Times'.
Thus the middle-aged Korner became the despairing young minstrel's career advisor, father confessor and a major catalyst in the recovery of his artistic confidence, 'Alexis absorbed me into his larger family of musicians and friends in London,' beamed Plant, 'He aided my schooling for what was about to come, and is still coming.'"
Meg
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Interesting follow up... in The Origin of the Species book by Adam Clayson, he states on page 73 that John Paul Jones used to play organ for Herbie Goin's and the Night Timers, to let off steam after his studio sessions. I wonder...
Doing an archive search, I've uncovered another Robert Plant & The Band of Joy gig, much later than their last mid-March 1968 gig in Birmingham.
In Melody Maker, the gig is advertised for Saturday 30 March 1968: "Ewell Technical College Students Union presents Herbie Goin's and the Night Timers plus Robert Plant and the Band of Joy. Reigate Road, Ewell, Surrey."
Like the other reported art college gig, this could be Obs-Tweedle performing under the name Band of Joy, given Obs-Tweedle had already performed a few gigs by then.
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An account of Alexis Korner jamming with Robert at the Midland Arts Centre:
Motor city music - Birmingham-style
Birmingham Post, 9 March 2000
"[Chris] Phipps has ramped up a 35-year career in the music industry. Based in the United Kingdom, he has worked in the United States, Japan, Africa, Israel, Holland and throughout Europe.
His passion and enthusiasm for music remains as ebullient as it was in the mid-1970’s when, as a college disc jockey, he began promoting local bands.
He has worked with the best, from Bob Marley to Sting, the Pet Shop Boys and Dire Straits and as a television producer and interviewer, he has put many more bands and musicians on the world’s screens, including Joan Armatrading, Ozzy Osbourne, UB40, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Steel Pulse and the Fine Young Cannibals.
Born in Northfield, he attended King Edwards School, Camp Hill, and studied teacher training at West Midlands College of Education. Phipps was already steeped in vinyl and music, booking local bands such as Carl Wayne and the Vikings (later The Move), The Idle Race with Jeff Lynne, who was later to form the Electric Light Orchestra and Jon Lord (later to form Deep Purple).
Phipps recalls: “Sixth form was great – Steve Winwood was playing in local jazz bands before the dawn of the Spencer Davis Group, Robert Plant was getting up to sing with Alexis Korner at the Midland Arts Centre, Gene Vincent was at St Francis Hall, Bournville, the Four Tops played the Odeon.
“At college, I booked Robert Plant’s Band of Joy, got sacked from the Ents Committee for booking Cream for £360 and then reinstated myself by getting The Scaffold to perform in the Common Room; I booked Paul Simon for £6 for the Christian Club, Black Sabbath, the original Fleetwood Mac, Joe Cocker, Jethro Tull ...”
Meg
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Doing an archive search, I've uncovered another Robert Plant & The Band of Joy gig, much later than their last mid-March 1968 gig in Birmingham.
In Melody Maker, the gig is advertised for Saturday 30 March 1968: "Ewell Technical College Students Union presents Herbie Goin's and the Night Timers plus Robert Plant and the Band of Joy. Reigate Road, Ewell, Surrey."
Like the other reported art college gig, this could be Obs-Tweedle performing under the name Band of Joy, given Obs-Tweedle had already performed a few gigs by then.
Also there is an interview with Alexis Korner in Beat Instrumental magazine dated December 1970. In that interview, Korner says he discovered Plant after seeing him perform with the Band of Joy at London's Speakeasy. He could not fathom why his talent had been better known. A quick check of gigs indicates Robert Plant and the band of Joy performed on 19 February 1968 at that venue. If what Korner is saying is correct, the long association between Plant and Korner started after that date.
Meg
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This doesn't entirely make sense, in that Paul Rodgers must have known that Jimmy was with the Yardbirds, not a "big session guy".
Also given Plant's previous comments of having actually stayed in London with Korner, it does seem rather an odd thing for Plant to say to Rodgers that he didn't know what London was like. Maybe Rodgers memory is playing up? Or was it just throw away small talk by Plant?
Meg
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From When Giants Walked the Earth, page 27:
"Paul Rodgers, then fronting Free, recalls seeing Plant perform in the summer of 1968. 'It was just before he joined Zeppelin,' he says. 'Free played up in Birmingham with Alexis Korner at the Railway Tavern, a blues club and Robert got up to jam with Alexis and he was the Robert Plant that we know and love today – full-on hair
and tight jeans and everything, doing that "Hey babe!" [imitates Plant's trademark vocal]. Full on everything, you know? He was giving it large with Alexis who was playing an acoustic guitar, and people didn't quite get it. He really needed Bonham and Page behind him. We were staying at some hotel and afterwards he came back for a cup of tea. He said: "You know, I’m thinking of going down to London. What's it like down there?" I said, "Oh, it’s pretty cool, you know, it's good." He said, "I've had a call from this guy called Jimmy Page, have you heard of him?" I said, "Oh yeah, everyone's talking about him, he's a big session guy down there." He said, "Well, he wants to form a band with me. They've offered me either thirty quid or a percentage." I said, "Take the percentage." Next thing I knew it was Led Zeppelin, right?' Thirteen days after the final Yardbirds show in Luton, Plant packed an overnight bag and bought the cheapest train ticket available that would take him from Birmingham to Reading, and then onto the local stopping service to Pangbourne."
Meg
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From Q magazine interview, May 1990:
"Robert became a regular at The Diskery in Birmingham, delving deep into the seam that ran from the Delta to Chicago. "I got a series of French RCA EPs with Jazz Gillum, the original Sonny Boy Williamson with sleevenotes by Alexis Korner. I worked with Alexis Korner just pre-Zep. I used to sleep at his place in Queensway [Westminster, London]. Goodnight, Robert, he'd say; you'll have to sleep on the couch tonight — oh, by the way, it is the same couch that Muddy used to sleep on when he stayed here. And I don't know if we’ve changed the toilet bowl since Buddy Guy was here… This was fabulous – I'm only from Wolverhampton, you know!"
Meg
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From Rolling Stone magazine interview, 8 July 1971:
"... “We kept the trio going out of the band. Danny Thompson and Terry Cox and myself used to play a lot of gigs up and down the country.”
It was around this time that Korner, using his broadcasting experience, started to sing as well as play guitar. He cut his first singing album, New Generation of Blues in 1968. The band once more became a cult and musicians would arrive at gigs for occasional sessions. One was a Birmingham singer, Robert Plant. He toured with Korner around the club and university circuit before being picked up by Jimmy Page to join Led Zeppelin in California [i think RS meant Scandinavia here not Cali]. He didn’t get to finish an album he was cutting with Korner and Steve Miller, though some of the completed tracks will be included in an anthology to be released later this year [1971] which will also contain songs with Charlie Watts, Ginger Baker and Jack Bruce. For a while Korner led another trio, called Free At Last."
Meg
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Alexis Korner was recording in March-April 1968, at Sound Techniques Studios, in London. It could be possible Plant recorded uncredited with Korner during the sessions there. I have to follow this up by looking into further database searches. Prior to the 1970s, Korner's gig career is poorly documented in many of the publications I've come across.
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I haven't been looking for "Answer" gigs but I'm aware of their part in the story and to be honest I can't remember seeing any gigs advertised them in 1968..again this doesn't mean anything..I might have missed them,they might have only done a few gigs in the Wolverhampton area or they might have been in another part of the country or abroad.If someone can give me target dates to look for I'll add them to the list.
The Alexis Korner thing is intriguing..in what way did RP "tour" with AK..as a sideman?..as a support act?
Without meaning to upset anyone but a lot of RPs early career seems to be based on hearsay and the origin of Obstweedle seems to either be based on BBs memory or ...to be honest I don't know what the other version is based on..I could do with a clear explantion
As I mentioned off-list. I am of the belief that The Answer had folded in 1967 and what BB has said is based on memory, which sadly cannot be trusted. If a search reveals the lack of any Answer gigs January-March 1968, this is probably the case. BB never kept a diary or receipts.
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Given the BOJ had split by March 1968, and the gig where Page and co. saw them perform did not happen until July, that's a fair few weeks between what the students lobbied for and who actually played, given that Obs-Tweedle was in existance during that entire time. I'd like to see a bit more confirmation on the above venues.
Meg
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I think I've put some March gigs on here for Obstweedle..I've not found any BOJ/Obs crossover gigs in Wolvo..BOJ disappear and Obs appear..this means nothing of course..they may have been in Birmingham..but the 1st Obs gigs in March are at the Boat which makes a lot of sense to me.
Yes, that would be most obvious if the band were named there by Bill's dad.
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Sorry for being dense Meg but I read Bill's story as The Answer doing the Europe gigs and after they returned Obstweedle came into existence with RP..you know who could probably answer all this
Which is why gig ads around February-March 1968 would be helpful
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Dates added to list..check your PMs.
I'm still very confused about RPs association with Obstweedle..Bill Bonham has told me a couple of times the group didn't exist until RP joined..he repeats the story here..
http://www.brumbeat.net/letters1.htm
So whats the truth?
Bill somewhat contradicted his story above by telling me Robert did not go to Hamburg with the band, as he had not joined at that stage. One possibility is that Robert decided to join Obs-Tweedle after the Band of Joy folded in February 1968, but had been previously booked to record with Alexis Korner, in March 1968, and thus didn't "officially" join until after they returned from Hamburg.
Robert Plant - Pre-Zep History
in Pre / Post-Zeppelin Forum
Posted
Thanks Chris,
Neil Daniels? That was the biography on Robert Plant which was panned for its inaccuracy. He didn't do any thorough research, eg still calls the band Hoobstweedle.