Jump to content

widget

Members
  • Posts

    615
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by widget

  1. Is there no evidence to suggest Pegg played bass on this tour, aside from a brief

    mention in A Thunder of Drums?

    Steve, It's quite possible Dave may have played early on, but there is no review I know which mentions his name apart from being name dropped in Chris Welch's biography. Mick Bonham's book only talks about Steve Dolan.

  2. Unconfirmed Tim Rose tour dates:

    Bristol, Colston Hall

    Birmingham, Mothers

    Klooks Kleek

    Rasputins

    The Temple

    London, Hatchett's

    Just checking through Brum Beat magazine again, it appears most of the above dates are in August 1968 with Les Marshall on drums, with the exception of the Hatchett's appearance, which means we probably have most of the possible Bonham dates listed.

  3. Also from the book, John Bonham the Powerhouse Behind Led Zeppelin, John's brother Mick writes......John toured the UK with Tim Rose. He joined the band in June 1968.

    He doesn't go into any further detail about the exact date in June 68 that Bonzo joined up.

    That's correct, but no-one has been able to say when in June. I'd love to see further details on specific dates. And in that book Mick Bonham claims the bass player was Steve Dolan as opposed to Chris Welch's book which says it was Dave Pegg.

    Meg

  4. Thanks meg. So, can we say that these are all dates with Rose?? And if I'm right, he just played with him in July 1968???

    He may have played with Rose in June, but the BBC session seems to be an oddity. Maybe Bonham just wasn't available on that particular date. While papers advertise the gig they don't show who is in the band. That's something we're going to have to do more detective work over. I'm fairly certain the latter July dates are definitely Bonham. The funny thing is not even many Tim Rose fans have any ideas on those 68 dates.

    Meg

  5. Steve, I found this correspondence from Bill Bonham in the letters column of the December 2007 issue of Brum Beat:

    "I'm so happy to have found your page. I now live in Anaheim, California but was raised as a kid at the "Three Men In A Boat" pub in Walsall where I remember all these great bands. I played with Robert Plant in a band called "Obs-Tweedle" and Ace Kefford in another "Ace Kefford Stand" as well as in a band called Spread Eagle. I also played for "Sight And Sound" in the early 70s as well as the Terry Reid Band. I was and still am a keyboard player.

    It has been such a long time, but Obs-Tweedle actually started when Tommy Burton left. Mac Bailey and the bass player at that time formed a group with another drummer called "The Answer" I also joined. We actually played in Casablanca and Germany where we changed guitarist to a guy from Scotland. I know we changed personnel a few times and when Robert Plant joined, my father who ran the Three Men In A Boat Pub in Walsall suggested "Obs-Tweedle". That was the band that Jimmy Page and Peter Grant came to see at Walsall College and Robert went to what was then "The Yardbirds" and I joined Terry Reid. When I left Reid, Ace Kefford had just abandoned "The Stand" though Ace and myself did play as the Ace Kefford Stand. Also as Kefford-Bonham and when we got a drummer, we changed our name to "Spread Eagle". We broke up around 1970.

    Thank You - Bill Bonham."

    So we've established so far it wasn't Robert's band and it was Bill Bonham's father who came up with the name, not any of the band members. Note the spelling though. It's with a hyphen not an apostrophe. So what does Obs-Tweedle mean? Obs is sometimes used as a standard dictionary shortening of "obscure". I've found one dictionary mention of tweedle:

    –verb (used without object)

    to produce high-pitched, modulated sounds, as a singer, bird, or musical instrument.

    –verb (used with object)

    to lure by or as by music: The Pied Piper tweedled the children into following him.

    Maybe Obs-Tweedle thus means "Obscure sound"?

    Meg

    I suspect that could well be his intent and I don't want to take it too far and assume he was asserting a particular spelling as well. It just seemed awkward the manner in which he abruptly corrected the foreign interviewer. Regardless, assuming "Obs'tweedle" is

    correct it could be traditional spelling was altered to ensure proper pronounciation...just as "Lead Zeppelin" was changed to "Led Zeppelin". :beer:

  6. Additions to the list:

    July 1 1968 (Mon) Radio session - BBC1 "Top Gear" with John Peel (songs recorded include "Roanoke", "Foggy Mountain Breakdown (On Rye With Mustard)", "I Guess It's Over", "Long Haired Boy"), later broadcast on August 11.

    In order of performance: 1) Intro by Tim Rose 2) "I Guess It's Over" 3) "Long Haired Boy" 4) "Roanoke" 5) "Foggy Mountain Breakdown (On Rye With Mustard)". The recording was first broadcast in full on July 7 and as part of a highlights show on August 11. Producer was Bernie Andrews and the recording took place at 201 Piccadilly, Studio 1. Lineup: Tim Rose (Acoustic Guitar, Vocals), Roger Coulam (Organ), Alan Weighall (Bass), Dougie Wright (Drums). The Kinks were also recorded for the show, on July 1st.

    July 7 1968 (Sun 7pm) Woburn Abbey Pop Festival

    Due to the number of artists appearing on the evening bill Rose's slot at this festival was brief. Two songs he is known to have performed include:

    "I Got a Loneliness"

    "Long Time Man"

    The performance was believed to have been professionally filmed although no tapes have as yet surfaced since.

    August 3 1968 edition of Melody Maker reports Tim Rose has postponed his American tour from August to now November.

    In September 1968, Tim Rose is asked to contribute songs to an album of recited poetry for John Peel. Nothing came of the project.

    Additional date:

    September 29 1968 (Sat) Manchester, The Magic Village

    More information to follow when I get through the pile of old newspapers.

    Meg

  7. The BBC website says that the drummer on this session was Dougie Wright. However, I found another database that lists another BBC session in July 1968, consisting of "Dim Light", "I Got A Loneliness" and "Long Haired Boy". Rose also made an appearance on Germany's "Beat Club" TV program, but I think that was after Bonham left the band.

    Yes you are correct. My list was a compliation of all known Tim Rose dates on his UK tour with or without Bonham. As far as I'ev seen the sources, Bonham didn't join until the 4th. He had rehearsals with Rose on the 3rd. The Beat club appearance is listed as being on August 31st. I've read somewhere that he showed in Germany on the 30th and that the show on the 31st was in fact pre-recorded. John Bonham wasn't on drums for that. Les Marshall had long replaced him after the 31st July.

  8. The manager for Tim Rose was a guy called Jack Beale and his booking agent was Terry King. During his tour in the UK Tim Rose was based in a serviced apartment at Eaton Place.

    Steve here are more dates which can be confirmed with NME and Melody Maker reports:

    May 4 1968 (Sat) Boston Tea Party

    June 1968: Rose returns to the UK after earlier Feb-March 68 tour.

    June 29 1968 (Sat) Sheffield, Students Union

    July 1 1968 (Mon) Radio session - BBC1 "Top Gear" with John Peel (songs recorded include "Roanoke", "Foggy Mountain Breakdown (On Rye With Mustard)", "I Guess It's Over", "Long Haired Boy"), later broadcast on August 11.

    July 2 1968 (Tue) Bournemouth, Ritz Ballroom

    July 4 1968 (Thu) London, Royal Festival Hall

    July 5 1968 (Fri) Hemel Hampstead, The Pavilion

    July 6 1968 (Sat) Ramsey, Gaiety Ballroom

    July 7 1968 (Sun 7pm) Woburn Abbey Pop Festival

    July 8 - 13 1968: Proposed short tour to Yugoslavia is cancelled.

    July 15 1968 (Mon) Wolverhampton - venue unconfirmed

    July 18 1968 (Thu) Liverpool - venue unconfirmed

    July 19 1968 (Fri) Grimsby, Grimsby Jazz Club

    July 20 1968 (Sat afternoon show) Beckenham, Mistral Club

    July 20 1968 (Sat evening show) London, Middle Earth

    July 21 1968 (Sun) Nottingham, Union Club

    July 23 1968 (Tue) Spain, Majorca (cancelled)

    A few days after Bonham left Tim Rose on the 31st, Rose postponed his tour until he could audition another drummer, this turned out to be a Brummie called Les Marshall. Marshall had heard there was going to be a vacancy for the drumming spot after visiting music store Drumland in Birmingham and being tipped off by store manager Mike Evans, who had previosuly chatted with Bonham. Incidently, Drumland sold Bonham his first Ludwig kit.

    After the 31st, returns:

    August 11 1968 (Sun) Sunbury, 8th National Jazz and Blues Festival.

    August 16 1968 (Fri) London, Marquee (Tim Rose's final tour show).

    Returns to the US.

    August 23 1968 (Fri) "The New York Rock Festival", Singer Bowl, Flushing Meadows Park, Queens. Playing at this festival Jimi Hendrix dedicated "Hey Joe" to Tim Rose.

    August 31 1968 (Sat) TV appearance - Germany, Beat Club performance "Long Haired Boy"

    Unconfirmed Tim Rose tour dates:

    Bristol, Colston Hall

    Birmingham, Mothers

    Klooks Kleek

    Rasputins

    The Temple

    London, Hatchett's

    At the 8th National Jazz and Blues Festival staged in Sunbury, Middlesex (9th-11th August), Joe Cocker was scheduled to appear. I have yet to confirm if Bonham played with Cocker on this date.

    Also after joining Led Zeppelin, Bonham was scheduled to appear with Chris Farlowe at the Droitwich, Worcester-Bank Holiday Bluesology Festival, on the 1st-2nd September. Grant got on the phone to the promoter and put a stop to Bonham's appearance.

    Meg

    In May 1968, Robert Plant disbanded The Band of Joy so John Bonham teamed up with bassist Dave Pegg to back Tim Rose on a full UK Tour for 40 pounds a week wages. I

    show the following dates, cities and venues confirmed but undoubtedly there are others:

    June 28 1966 Hastings, England (Venue unconfirmed)

    July 14 1968 (Sun) London, England Blaises

    July 16 1968 (Tue) London, England Marquee

    July 30 1968 (Tue) Wood Green, London, England Fishmongers Arms 287 High Road

    July 31 1968 (Wed) Hampstead, London, England Country Club 210-A Haverstock Hill

    On Robert Plant's advice, Page, Peter Grant, and bassist Chris Dreja met with John at the Country Club in Hampstead and watched him perform. John went on to tour briefly with Chris Farlowe before joining Robert in The New Yardbirds.

  9. Pop Proms at the Royal Albert Hall, Sunday June 29, 1969. Members of Blodwyn Pig and the Liverpool Scene join Led Zeppelin on stage for the encore of "Long Tall Sally". The objects on the stage floor are flowers that were thrown there by members of the audience.

    Meg

    Does anyone know where and when this concert was and what and who is on the stage?

    LZ69concert.jpg

  10. Thanks--yes I know, but what I mean is that there's a difference in being a founding member and it being HIS band. Just wondered.

    Edit: OK, you answered my first question while I was typing. So he was the guy in charge, as it were.

    Plant wasn't the first singer for the group. Their first singer for a short period was a guy called Robert Berry. So you can gather from that it wasn't Plant's band.

    "I had nowhere to live," Robert recalls of those scuffling days in the blueswailing business, "and the keyboards player's dad had a pub in Wolverhampton with a spare room. The pub was right over the road from Noddy Holder's father's window cleaning business, and Noddy used to be our roadie. We used to go to gigs with Noddy Holder's dad's buckets crashing around on top of the van! And that," he divulges with an audible sigh of relief, "is when I met Pagey..."

    "Robert Plant's Record Collection", Robert Plant's interview with Mat Snow in Q, May 1990.

    The hotel Plant was living at was the Three Men In A Boat which he shared with two cats called Tipton and Dudley. The hotel was also a favourite drinking hole for John Bonham and it was also here Plant tried to get into contact with him to join Led Zeppelin.

    According to the Slade biography by Chris Charlesworth, Robert after leaving the Band of Joy also auditioned as singer for Ambrose Slade (soon to be Slade) before joining Obbstweedle. The Three Men In A Boat pub was also used previously for rehearsals for Midlands band the In-Be-Tweens, which featured Noddy Holder on vocals and guitar.

    Side trivia: Robert with band Listen in 1966 recorded a single called "You Better Run", which was later covered by the In-Be-Tweens.

    Obbstweedle line-up:

    Bill Bonham (cousin of John Bonham): organ, piano

    Richard Brown: guitar

    Mac Bailey: drums

    Robert Plant: lead vocal

    Barry Sargeant (replaced Bailey): drums

  11. Book writers and webmasters everywhere please note Hobbstweedle is in Lord of the Rings, but Robert Plant altered the spelling for his band in '68:

    "Obstweedle" -- direct quote from Robert in response to inquiry, Toronto, July 4 1998

    1969_06_09Birmingham.jpg

    Mothers in Birmingham

    June 8 1968

    Scan courtesy of dazedjeffy

    Corrected, but newspapers shouldn't be trusted for getting names right :) Remember Led Zeppelin was billed at the (Gonzaga University) Kennedy Pavilion ad on their first US tour as "Len Zefflin".

    spokane68-ad.jpg

  12. "The Paganini of the Seventies", a feature article interview in Melody Maker by journalist Chris Welch at Page's Pangbourne house. 14th February 1970.

    Meg

    Don't know, but, does anyone have an explanation for why he has such great taste in art and such funny taste in trousers? (Well, circa this photo...) ;)

    More seriously, there are several photos that seem to be part of this shoot... maybe someone can identify or locate the interview/article they ended up in?

  13. I wonder why Plant changed the spelling? It's Hobbstweedle in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.

    Also I am having a rethink of that Reid date. Reid talks about seeing Bonham with Plant. Bonham was not in Obstweedle. He was in of course Band of Joy. Either Reid is confused or he is talking about the tour he did do with Band of Joy in March 1968. Interestingly Tim Rose headlined this tour when he saw John Bonham perform for the first time, as Band of Joy was his opening act. Hmmmmmm

    "Robert and I lost contact for two or three months..." - John Bonham

    Please note Robert Plant himself confirmed the correct spelling is Obstweedle (during interview conducted in Toronto on July 4, 1998).
  14. It was a tour which kicked off at the Albert Hall. It was one of those crazy tours where they played two sessions on every date as well as cramming in filming for Michelangelo Antonioni's film "Blow Up".

    Thanks for posting this--I was there ^^ and it was a great night! Long John Baldry was also on the bill, but always seems to get overlooked--possibly he didn't perform on the rest of the tour or something.
  15. I believe Terry was first managed by his father when he joined Peter Jay and the Jaywalkers, at the age of 15. Their last single was called "The Hand That Don't Fit the Glove" and was credited as Terry Reid and the Jaywalkers, in April 1967. In February 1968, Reid was signed up by manager/producer Mickie Most, so Grant's dealings with Reid and his father must have been before this date. Grant's comments on his father can be found on page 55 of Welch's biography. I've dug up an old copy of a Jimmy Page interview in Mojo magazine:

    "We'd done a gig at Albert Hall - a great bill: us [The Yardbirds], the Stones, the Ike & Tina Tuner Revue, and this band Peter Jay and The Jaywalkers, which had Terry Reid in it. I remembered him as a really good singer, so I told Peter [Grant], that I wanted to start a group with Terry Reid, so could he get the office to find him. I had all these ideas and I wanted to get it right. So I'm back in England after the end of this Yardbirds tour, and Peter said 'Well I've located Terry, but he's just signed a solo deal.' I said 'Who with?' He said 'Mickie Most!' Now you know their two desks faced each other, right?!"

    Looking up the date in Alan Clayson's Yardbirds chronology, that Albert Hall concert was on Friday 23rd September 1966. The Jaywalkers were third on the bill.

    Reid said after his meeting with Grant and Page at the RAK office in 1968:

    "Jimmy asked me to be the singer in Led Zeppelin but I'd just done a deal to support the Stones on their first US tour in three years.”

    Looking up the date in Roy Carr's Stones chronology, this was the Rolling Stones tour was set to commence on July 7, 1969 at State University, Fort Collins CO. So the contracts for that must have been signed well in advance by Reid and Most.

    Robert Plant in an interview with Uncut magazine on Terry Reid:

    "We were good friends because we seemed to be on the same circuit...we always seemed to be playing on the same bill together. He was one of those stellar vocalists along with Steve Winwood, Jess Roden and Steve Marriott, and he got the offer from his connection with Mickie Most, who shared an office with Peter Grant...so Terry said to Peter and Jimmy, "No I've go this thing going. But you should see my mate. Go and have a look at 'the Wild Man From The Black Country.'"

    According to Terry Reid in an interview with Peter Doggett for Record Collector 1992:

    "I was doing a gig. I think it was in Buxton with the Band of Joy. I'd seen them before, and I knew Robert Plant and John Bonham. And this time, as I watched them, I thought: 'That's it!' I could hear the whole thing in my head. So the next day I phoned up Jimmy. He said, 'What does this singer look like?' I said, 'What do you mean, what does he look like? He looks like a Greek god, but what does that matter? I'm talking about how he sings. And his drummer is phenomenal. Check it out!' “

    That Reid gig (it was Hobbstweedle not BoJ) according to Melody Maker was on Saturday 13th July 1968. So the discussion to see Plant on the 20th, was made on the 14th July. Which means Page must have asked Reid sometime in the week between the 8th and 13th to join his band.

    Side trivia: Noddy Holder who would eventually find fame with Slade was Hobbstweedle's roadie.

    What I don't get is why Walter Reid was even involved in this... :blink: wasn't Terry of legal age by this time?
  16. As I understand it, Grant was manager for Reid for only a short period of time before Reid signed up with Mickie Most. I believe that Grant and Page had spotted Reid walking down Oxford Street when they caught up with him and invited him back to the RAK offices for a discussion, when Reid told them he had done a solo deal with Most. I believe Grant is on record as saying Terry's father was also extremely damanding and difficult to deal with. It sounds to me that had Reid been available and signed up with Led Zeppelin, his stay in the band wouldn't have been very long or happy one.

    In a RS interview with journalist Steve Rosen, Nicky Hopkins claims to have been asked to join Page's new band but turned it down in favour of Jeff Beck's group, whom Grant was managing at the time:

    "As it happened, it was a choice between two bands. And Jimmy Page asked me to join his new band that was just forming and it was going to be called The New Yardbirds. And at the same time, Beck asked me to join. Decision time. They were both managed by Peter Grant and Peter couldn’t sway me one way or the other. He said, “That’s up to you to make a choice, I know.” So I thought, “Well, New Yardbirds…That sounds a bit ....” So I thought, Beck has done his first tour, Page has got a new band that hasn’t been tried out. At least Beck has already done one tour, which was really popular. So I chose Beck."

    Meg

    Jimmy would have no reason to call Keith for Terry Reid's manager was Peter Grant. If any calls were to have been made getting Terry released from his commitment Peter Grant would have been the one to do so because that was his function. Allen Klein was

    managing the Stones at the time and Mick Jagger, not Keith, was emerging as their new leader as Brian Jones, the band's founding member, faded and was ultimately kicked out of his own band by the others before that 1969 North American tour began.

    I wouldn't say Jimmy "gave up", I would say he explored the possiblity and was smart

    enough to realize quite quickly Terry wasn't interested. Remember, the Scandanavian tour contracts were already signed and set for September so Jimmy didn't have time

    to waste looking for talent to complete the new lineup. Undoubtedly, this is the reason

    why he immediately took up Terry's recommendation to go see Robert Plant perform.

    He, Chris Dreja & Peter Grant went to see Plant perform on July 20, 1968. Essentially,

    within two weeks Robert was in the band and encouraging his mate John Bonham to

    join as well. A series of telegrams from Peter Grant followed.

    Steve Marriott was not considered for Led Zeppelin in '68, he was considered back in '66 and ultimately became a benchmark for what Jimmy was looking for two years later. The

    Marriott connection stems from the Page/Entwhistle/Moon lineup on Jeff Beck's 'Truth' album and the initial discussions they had about forming a new band together.

    Jimmy was asked if that band was going to be Led Zeppelin and this is what he said: "It was, yeah. Not Led Zeppelin as a name; the name came afterwards. But it was said afterwards that that's what it could have been called. Because Moony (Who drummer Keith Moon) wanted get out of the Who and so did John Entwhistle (Who bassist), but when it came down to getting a hold of a singer, it was either going to be Steve Winwood [guitarist/organist/singer with English pop group Traffic] or Steve Marriott [guitarist/vocalist with Small Faces] . Finally it came down to Marriott. He was contacted, and the reply came back from his manager's office: "How would you like to have a group with no fingers, boys?" Or words to that effect. So the group was dropped because of Marriott's commitment to Small Faces. But I think it would have been the first of all those bands sort of like the Cream and everything. Instead, it didn't happen -- apart from the "Bolero." That's the closest it got. John Paul [Jones] is on that too; so is Nicky Hopkins [studio keyboard player with various British rock groups]."

×
×
  • Create New...