jmorton
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Posts posted by jmorton
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If Gorman is to be believed (and as someone pointed out above Steve goes into GREAT detail about his meeting with Page) then he and Page have a good relationship and I would figure he'd ask Page about the incident before putting it in the book.
Gorman has been talking about the Page thing with friends for awhile now. Apparently he told Dean Delray about it on his podcast (off the record) in 2014 and Delray asked Rich about the Page stuff when he had Rich on his podcast in 2016. So this wasn't just for the book and it was clearly something that bothered Gorman for a long time.
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21 hours ago, SteveAJones said:
From the onset of back injury to postponement/cancellation of the tour was two days. They did fulfill their commitment to perform on 'The Tonight Show with Jay Leno' on the afternoon of Mon, Aug 14, 2000 in the meantime. The whole partnership was a marriage of convenience. Jimmy may have gotten seduced by how well it worked on stage such that he thought they could take it another level, and that's reasonable, but it just wasn't meant to be. Timing is everything they say, and if that particular conversation did coincide closely with the INJURY I can see how it prompts him walk away. Once that occurred, and it became an insurance settlement case, it would no longer be possible to save the UK & Japan dates planned for that Nov/Dec even if anyone had wanted to make the attempt.
The conversation was spurred on by Pete Angelus who was in discussions with Curbishly and Page about continuing the partnership. Apparently the band was aware (according to Gorman) that there was this next step but no one in the band other than Rich was aware the conversation took place until Jimmy told Gorman in 2002. Page approached Rich who basically brushed him off and then things came to a sudden end. In fact Gorman's description of the Tonight Show performance was fascinating because of how different Page was as opposed to the day before when he was happy, jovial, and wanting to continue the tour thanks to Angelus' doctor friend. Page had back surgery shortly after arriving back in England.
Also, I think we can thank Pete Angelus and his doctor friend who worked on Page's back for Jimmy quitting drinking permanently. At least that is what I can infer from Gorman's book. It's a fascinating section that I think all Zep fans should read considering it was Jimmy's last ever tour.
Edit: Additionally Pete Angelus kind of sprung the recording of the Greek Theater concerts on Page at the last moment and Gorman goes into great detail about how uneasy that made Jimmy and how reluctant he was to record it.
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6 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:
Well that depends. If Page was truly suffering with back pain and what kept him going on tour was the perceived camaraderie and shared vision, only to find out the two main guys in the band did not share that vision. Well, maybe Jimmy figured the pain is too great to force himself out there for two guys who really did not care one way or the other. However, if Chris Robinson simply wanted to finish the tour and then reevaluate, then yes, Jimmy would come off as rather insincere. Through everything which has been reported about the Robinson Bros. I would have to go with the former, rather than the latter excuse but at this point it is all conjecture.
It was a conversation with Rich apparently. Also I suggest everyone read the book. Theres about 4 chapters on the Page/Crowes tour alone and they are really fascinating. A great insight into how the tours came together and how Pete Angelus really helped Page mend his back in LA. A great anecdote about Jimmy standing poolside drinking Evian that Gorman has.
I'd recommend the book anyway. It is full of amazing stuff about Robert Plant as well and it's clear Gorman has a big admiration for BOTH men. Fancy that.
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2 hours ago, bluecongo said:
Yep it’s a bombshell folks need to check it out
I suspected there was more to Page leaving the Page/Crowes tour in 2000 but if what Gorman says is true I suppose Jimmy really wanted to make music with the Crowes and when Rich Robinson rejected the idea of making an album he decided that he wouldn't fight through the back pain to finish the tour.
Also it didn't take long for Chris Robinson to start griping about the tour in 2000. (the book REALLY levels Chris Robinson in a way that few biographies have done to other artists. It's a sight to behold)
Gorman also flew into a rage when he found out (from Jimmy) what Rich had said and the next few pages are filled with more swear words than I've ever read in one place. Like I said the whole chapter is a sight to behold. Actually Jimmy comes across REALLY well. Genuinely excited and happy to be with the Crowes and even made jackets for everyone. He said that when he saw Jimmy again in 2002, by then, Jimmy had stopped drinking and "looked younger" than he did when he was touring with the Crowes two years before.
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Not sure if anyone has got a chance to read Steve Gorman's book that just came out but the chapter on Jimmy Page is pretty amazing. Aside from Gorman describing Page as a great guy who he even took a nap next to there is a fairly explosive revelation that Rich Robinson told Page "We have enough songs" when he offered to work with them during the 2000 tour. Gorman alleges that Jimmy treated his back enough to continue with the tour, even though he was in pain, but "lost heart" after that conversation with Rich Robinson and Gorman seems to think that was a big reason Page abandoned the 2000 tour.
It's a fascinating passage that I don't want to spoil for everyone. Gives insight into what was going on during 99-00 aka: the last time Jimmy Page toured.
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Allison Krauss will feature on a track called “Lost Boy” on the new Magpie album:
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Wasn't sure where to put this, but here is the brand new Magpie Salute single "In Here" Very Stones-y (what's new right?). Extremely catchy song
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On 8/4/2019 at 7:21 AM, SteveAJones said:
I know I have addressed this privately from time to time, but if I haven't posted it here...
Jimmy injured his back on the day off in Los Angeles after Albuquerque. He pressed on with their television performance in Burbank the following afternoon and then the decision was made to postpone and ultimately cancel all remaining dates. The reason why they didn't "just reschedule" is two fold. First, they would no longer have had the touring arrangement they had in place with The Who. Secondly, one of the conditions of the insurance underwriter's settlement of the claim was that Jimmy Page could not perform in public for at least six months. In point of fact, when he and his wife went to Fort Lauderdale at the end of the year he was still receiving physical therapy for his injured back. Consequently, all of the European dates for Nov/Dec were also cancelled.
That's the long and short of it. They had just come out of a mid-tour break of several weeks. If there was any fighting or what not the break would have been the time to pull the plug, not after traveling all the way from England to the west coast.
Will be interesting to see what Gorman says in his book. He said on Dean Delray's podcast a few years ago that Page offered to produce the next Crowes album but Rich Robinson declined. Then they ended up with Don Was. It's intriguing considering how Page-influenced their album "Lions" is. Particularly Cypress Tree which you can hear Rich playing in the soundcheck video on youtube.
You could tell Gorman loved playing with Page. He definitely is a Page-type drummer.
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Steve Gorman has his book about the Crowes coming out in September. One of the things he always drops hints about in interviews is the "whole story" about the Page and Crowes 2000 tour. I know Gorman holds Page in extremely high regard and you can argue that (considering the short amount of time they played together) Gorman clicked with Page better than most drummers post Bonzo. I'd be interested to hear what happened from Gorman's perspective.
Jimmy injured his back in Albuquerque or Phoenix or something, I believe, but it always perplexed me why they didn't just reschedule. I'm sure the tour was a moneymaker considering how they were touring with The Who and saved money on equipment/stage set up and whatnot. It will be interesting to read. I'm going to assume it would be "Page drinking and Robinson brothers fighting" or something like that. lol. Who knows.
Also check out The Magpie Salute (featuring Rich Robinson and Marc Ford) and Trigger hippy (Steve Gorman's band). Both are releasing great music.
https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Handle-Death-Crowes-Memoir-ebook/dp/B07MLRFLBC
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3 hours ago, SteveAJones said:
David Coverdale discusses Jimmy Page and Coverdale/Page during an interview in Los Angeles on April 15th 2019.
See 14:25 below.
I think this album could do with a remix and I'd love to see a boxed set because their writing sessions were fully documented by Coverdale on video. Also the 4-5 leftover songs and the ideas for the follow up would make a pretty wonderful boxed set methinks.
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I'm 90% certain the "tension" between Page and Clapton was addiction related. It was kind of dismaying to hear Page a couple years ago downplay/deny his drug addictions in an interview (the one with Chuck Klosterman maybe?) when it was obvious to everyone.
That being said his post cocaine addiction; his Firm tours were pretty good albeit a bit safe, the solo Outrider tour was less safe but consistent, the CP Japan tour was again very consistent, the Page/Plant 95-96 tour was up and down (drinking I assume), the 98 tour was possibly his best post 1975, the Black Crowes tour was also great (although I think his drinking was beginning to play havoc again ... maybe providing the impetus for him to give up drinking entirely).I've always felt that Page's nerves and the lack of addictive crutch has contributed to his unwillingness to tour solo since 2000. Some of those Black Crowes 2000 tour dates were great. Particularly the first handful.
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Interesting tid bit from Coverdale regarding one of the songs on the upcoming Whitesnake album
"The riff-heavy Flesh & Blood includes one track, "Gonna Be Alright," built from a riff written for what was supposed to be a second Coverdale-Page album with Jimmy Page that never transpired. "It's been sitting gathering dust for 20-odd years 'til destiny proved (Hoekstra) was the one to finish it off for me," Coverdale notes."
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You can tell the album was filled with good ideas but they really didn't have "songs". They went with the underproduced, minimal overdubs approach. I think Shining in the Light is the closest they came on the album to an actual completed thought but even that kind of goes on too long. Sons of Freedom bugs me as a song for a short (ish) uptempo song in rambles so much.
It was a good album but not much more than that. Blue Train could have been an epic and whenever I listen to the album I come away slightly disappointed it wasn't...just, MORE than it was. And yeah, it was very much sounding like Jimmy Page as the guitarist in Robert's band.
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Here is a direct link to the Coverdale Page discussion between DC and Trunk
It's been amazing to me how Jimmy and Coverdale have remained friends after all this time all things considered.
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I never believed that other bands were "jealous" of Zeppelin. The Stones, most of all, had zero reason to be jealous particularly in the 1970's.
I believe the dismissive comments all tend to center around Plant and Bonham. Bonham because he was seen as a "basher" of the drums (loud, unsubtle). We all know that is wrong and was a stereotype of Zeppelin's music. Plant I think made his own bed at times, as he tended to be a bit braggadocios and would throw shade at other acts. That's just who he was at the time and remained that way for some time. Whereas established acts in England all knew who Page and Jones were ... at least to some extent because of their studio time and (for Page) the Yardbirds stint. Bonham and Plant were newcomers. I can't speak to the North/South divide in England but that could play a factor as well.
I do know that Blackmore speaks highly of Page as a songwriter and said that he and Jimmy lived in the same Village
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This is an interesting subject. Coverdale is much more straightforward than Plant. Always has been. His quote about his lyrics is "well...I ain't Billy Shakespeare, mate". He's aware of what he writes and doesn't try to force himself out of it. He did it in Deep Purple on the songs Burn and Stormbringer to mixed results. Whereas some of his best lyric writing has been on straight up blues songs such as Mistreated, Crying in the Rain and even Don't Leave Me this Way. Everyone here knows about Robert and what he writes.
Coverdale Page was the most successful post Zeppelin solo original album after Now and Zen (excluding No Quarter/Unledded). As someone pointed out, it succeeded despite no North American tour, no European tour and merely a 7 date run in Japan in December of 1993. On the flip side it's quite fascinating how Walking into Clarksdale failed commercially as much as it did. I remember feeling that it should have done better, and THAT had a major tour (saw them at Red Rocks that go round). I feel by the late 90's the Zeppelin nostalgia train had dried up outside of tours and, quite frankly WIC was under-produced and maybe too minimal in it's construction. Who knows.
Coverdale went back to Whitesnake and never looked back. The myth is that DC has been pining away for Jimmy when in reality Coverdale left the project and has shown little to no desire to revisit outside of remastering the original album (which it badly needs). The latest Whitesnake 1987 box set is something I would love to see them do with the CP album. There's a CD in that box set called "Evolutions" where songs are constructed from demo to final form and it's extremely fascinating to listen to. I don't care for the album itself, but it is magnificent quality for money.
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As I remember, the US was in the midst of a fairly large recession in 1993 and all acts besides the mega-popular current acts (Metallica/Guns and Roses tour) were suffering with tickets and album sales. As a result the music business in general didn't pick up until mid 1994. Even Robert's Fate of Nations tour was fairly modest venue-wise in the US. Unwillingness to downsize was a fairly stubborn decision that contributed to the project's demise.
However, considering there was no US tour to support the album it sold remarkably well. If it was released in late 1991 it may have sold even more.
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Coverdale has been talking about the idea of doing a remix re-issue of Coverdale Page. I'd welcome that to be honest. I thought the production was very 90's and it could benefit from a fresh eye and approach. Lots and lots of video from the CP tour has emerged on youtube. Many of the live versions are superior, particularly Take Me for a Little While, Absolution Blues and Don't Leave Me This Way (sans drum solo).
The interesting to me is DC claiming they started on new material before Peter Mensch (who I THINK was Jimmy's manager at the time) put an end to it. This isn't the first time he's said that. I'm curious about the timeline because I always thought they shook hands after the Japanese tour and parted ways. When did Jimmy get a commitment from Robert on the MTV thing? Did they start on new material in the mid-year period between the release of Coverdale Page and the Japanese Tour in December? I'd be curious to find out.
Also, I believe Coverdale initiated legal proceedings against Geffen in the late 90's and early 00's that resulted in him reacquiring publishing rights to all of "his" material under Geffen. (Slide it In, Whitesnake, Slip of the Tongue, Coverdale Page). Thus dealing exclusively with EMI on any future release for Coverdale Page.
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Coverdale has been saying of late he would like to remaster the CP album. As it is 20 years since the album came out, I wonder if that would be a good enough excuse to remaster.
I believe, if I'm not mistaken, Coverdale took legal action against Geffen around publishing control of the Slidie it In, Whitesnake (1987) album, Slip of the Tongue and the Coverdale Page album. Since he has recently remastered the Slide it In, Whitesnake and Slip albums I would think that he also retains publishing right's to the CP album. DC made reference at one point to the extra tracks from CP (which are anywhere between 4 and 6) that was involved in the suit. So if there was to be a Coverdale Page remastered package one would assume these tracks would be included.
And yes, there was deep animosity toward Brian Goode from DC's camp. However, Page and Coverdale have remained friends in the years since ... so I guess from a personal level it worked out.
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Wow! I just read the interview and I really can't remember someone contradicting themselves more than Coverdale.
One of the standout contradictions is: "I was going to approach Vai about playing the guitar. I'd had glitter in my eye about working with him since I saw the movie Crossroads, because of the guitar work he'd performed in the film. Only later did I find out the music I heard on the guitar was really all Ry Cooder's doing. He told Vai exactly what to play and how to play it. Being the consummate technician that he is with the guitar, Vai played the music you hear in that movie according to what he was instructed to play, not from his own gut feelings."
And in the same article: "As you very well know, I do my homework on the people I'm interested in associating myself with".
Really? Hey Dave, I could have told you back in '86 that Vai was a shredder, not a blues player, but you knew that,
you just didn't like his attitude.
Lets keep it real. Why didn't you call Ry Cooter?...cause he didn't look like Steve Vai, plain and simple.
And, if it was Page's 'ex' manager that 'suggested' he shouldn't be working with Coverdale, then all I can say is,
that is a man who knew what he was talking about.
I remember when the Coverdale Page record came out, it was a huge dissapointment to me and all my friends mainly due to Coverdale's overwrought vocals and the hideous production value. Sure, Page put some nice stuff down, but lets be honest, the sound they were going for was already dated by a few years,
see the Seattle explosion in 1991.
And, oh yeah Mr. Coverdale, everybody's big in Japan!
While most fans of DC consider Slip of the Tongue to be awful (me included) I'm not seeing where DC contradicted himself. Vandenberg was injured and DC got himself a shredder in Steve Vai... interestingly enough David Lee Roth has said similar things about Vai in regards to the Skyscraper album which he said Vai went all "widdley widdley" on him. Which is the truth. Vai is an awesome musician who lacks soul but likes to overdecorate his music. Didn't work for Whitesnake. In fact the record sold 2 million compared to the (now) 14 million worldwide that the previous Whitesnake record sold.
As for the Robert and DC thing....It's my personal opinion that Plant went quite over the top with his comments about Coverdale. Robert lost credibility (to me) with his statements when he denied knowing Coverdale, when anyone who did the simplest amount of research would know that they did, in fact, know each other since the 70's. Whether you agree that Robert's criticisms were valid or not, in my mind he lost his way when it went from media poking to downright cruel and vindictive. I blame an extremely lazy American media who didn't bother to remember that Coverdale was in Deep Purple (several media outlets at the time called Whitesnake a "new" band).
I'm not sure you have to be a fan of DC to understand that it was over the top.
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Keep mind however with no tour, the album never found legs - that was in a time when a successful tour could actually help an album sell.
This interview with Coverdale just came out. In it he talks about his time with Jimmy, his dislike for Jimmy's manager, and his relationship with Plant. The interview is a bit too long to post on here, great stuff though. The interviewer is quite aggressive with DC and get's him to admit things that have never been revealed before about the CP project.
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There's been momentum for a 20 year anniversary thing for the CP album for years. DC himself gained control of the "intellectual property" of the CP album after he took legal action against Geffen records in the mid 90's. Geffen refused to release the CP songs after David left Geffen in 1994. Years of legal fighting resolved itself in 1999 when DC was rewarded the "property".
Funny thing is...Page and Coverdale have remained quite close over the last 17 years and while another CP album will probably NEVER happen (that's my own speculation derived from quotes DC has made over the years) there are in the neighborhood of 5 to 7 unreleased tracks....video of the recording sessions and writing process...and countless bootlegs of the 7 shows they did in Japan. Enough to make an expanded and remastered edition quite attractive.
Jeff
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My theory has always been that Sixes and Sevens is a clear peak into what was going on in Robert's head at the time....and it's about as clear as Robert get's with his lyrics.
We have to remember that this is by far the most confused Robert had been about how to move forward in his career. He made an album where he forced Robbie Blunt to use the Roland Synth guitar and they clashed repeatedly during the album's making and quite frankly IMO he was never completely convinced that this was the course he should be taking considering (once again in my own opinion) that this album was an attempt to be of the 80's and relevant.
In hindsight I think the album is a bit incoherent for a Plant solo album. In fact it goes from quasi-goth in "Little by Little" to the almost Police sounding "Sixes and Sevens" to much the rest of the album sounding like a combination of Human League and ABC....with the exception of Easily Lead which sounded better on the subsequent tour.
Therefore...I think Sixes and Sevens is a standout track. Really emotional and you get to see a window into the confusion that surrounded making that album.
Jeff
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Can anyone explain to me why Purple isn't in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? It baffles me. It's my position that if Zep and Sabbath are in there you MUST have DP in there...it's just right.
Jeff
Why did Robert Plant hate David Covedale?
in Pre / Post-Zeppelin Forum
Posted · Edited by jmorton
"Hate" is a strong word. I don't think Robert ever hated David Coverdale. In fact the two were friendly if not quite friends from the 70's to about the mid 80's.
After all these years, and nearly 30 without even a hint of controversy between them I think it's fair to look back on the period and call it a bit silly. I always thought Robert went far too much over the top in his criticism. I think Coverdale responded nearly as harshly (as I recall DC said something like "You can say there's no love lost between Robert and myself. I wouldn't send him cat food if he was starving.") I can't look into Robert's mind but Coverdale having this massive late-career spike in popularity after dying his hair blonde probably set him off. In some ways I can't blame him at all ... in others I wonder how Robert was able to keep up such sustained public disdain for somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 years (only to end up singing Shake My Tree on the 1995 Page/Plant tour which ... was surreal).
If you talk to both men privately I'm nearly certain they would both say it was silly. Coverdale extended an olive branch to Robert about 10 years ago. Not sure it was accepted. Page and Coverdale have remained on quite good terms in the years since the Coverdale/Page project.
In retrospect it was neither Robert not Coverdale's best moments.