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cookieshoes

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  1. 1970/09/04 for the great atmosphere and lengthy spoken introduction to Bron-Yr-Aur. 1971/09/28 for the super long intro to Going to California, and the Beatles teases. 1972/06/14 for the great performance. 1972/06/19 for the debut of Black Country Woman. All six of the LA 77 acoustic sets for being pretty badass across the board, every single night.
  2. I'd say the more likely source is Jason Bonham. You have to remember that Jason lost his father very early, and so he has a much different interest in preserving all of those live Zep moments. That's his dad on those tapes. Watch the recent Charlie Rose interview, and the surviving members even make special mention that during the O2 rehearsals that Jason kept trying to get them all to do specific improvisations on songs like he had heard on various live tapes, and that none of them really had any idea what he was talking about because to them it was just a memory from a very very long time ago. That should tell you right there who actually cares about the tapes. I know that it's very easy to assume that it's Page doing the learking since's he's the one who has historically had all of this mystery going on, but he's going to be 70 years old in another year. Really think about that. That's great-grandfather age. Feeding bootleg labels tapes on the sly can't really be the thing on his mind these days. Read the interviews with Kevin Shirley from 10 years ago regarding compiling the Zeppelin live DVD and he makes it clear that Page wasn't too concerned with the preservation of the live tapes even back then, and that he was more interested in getting the job done quickly so that he could go visit his son while he was in the states. We can only hope that Page's been sitting on the soundboards to things like Boston 69, Bath 70, Osaka 71, etc specifically for pairing with the remastered Zep releases. I hope so, but we'll have to wait and see.
  3. The EV and WT 9/23 titles use similar sources, but according to Bootledz, the EV patched more of the cuts. Wendy's Osaka 9/28 boot has a patch of Stairway to Heaven from the next night, 9/29, which is kind of weird. And it apparently has some noise-reduction noise on disc 3.
  4. I think it's possible that these things happened, but also suspect since they came from Richard Cole's recollections. As for Bonham punching Plant, they were childhood friends after all. Lots of friendships have those moments. Also, what unfortunately tends to get glossed over is that Bonham wasn't always a particularly nice person. It gets dramatized/romanticized as him turning into "the beast", or just being some rowdy kid who liked fast cars, but the reality is that he was drunk/drugged out a lot of the time in the later years, cheating on his wife regularly, and getting into physical confrontations with all sorts of people. Remember that story about Bonham nearly assaulting a flight attendant? Rock and roll lifestyle, road fever...I guess. If we're talking about things like this actually happening, sure why not. Kind of a bizarre topic to think about in any case. They were just people, after all. Plenty of people get in fights. As for why nobody beat up Page, it's pretty simple, ain't it? He was their boss back then. Including Grant's. He was the star, he put the band together, he signed the band's record contract, it was his publishing company, he paid for the first album, he produced all of the material. He was the band's bread and butter, and you don't mess with that. Ever wonder why he had the sole spotlight onstage, front and center, during the 75 and 77 tours? Funny that out of all of the people involved, it's actually Grant who was supposedly much nicer than his advertised persona would lead people to believe. Oakland 1977 aside, of course.
  5. Can't speak for 1972, but for 1971 I like the following: Sept. 23rd 1971 - Tokyo: Reflection from a Dream - TDOLZ, King of the Monsters - Fan Remaster, Flying Rock Carnival - No Label, and First Attack of the Rising of the Sun - Empress Valley Sept. 24th 1971 - Tokyo: Light and Shade - TDOLZ, Balloon Boys Rock Carnival in Tokyo - Empress Valley Sept. 27th 1971 - Hiroshima: Love & Peace Hiroshima - Bumble Bee Sept. 28th 1971 - Osaka: Osaka Woman - No Label Sept. 29th 1971 - Osaka: Fatally Wanderer Definitive Edition - Wendy (the original has too much noise-reduction), Cellarful of Noise - Noise Generator (vinyl source - incomplete but great sound)
  6. True, but I think when it comes to live recordings, we often obsess about what we don't have, when we already have most (if not all) of the known legendary performances by the band available already in some form. We always want more, and sometimes we don't really know why. So things like "soundboards" and "videos" of already circulating shows get obsessed over, even when we already have a document of the performance, and we know that it wasn't really one of the truly great shows the band did.
  7. Unfortunately, I think even if Houston 77 was ever released, there would be a very high likelihood that most people would watch it once and then continue on to waiting for the next big thing. Happens to so many shows, including all of those 75 soundboards. We already have the soundboard for Houston, and we have a rough audio from Pontiac. Both shows have video out there, but because neither show is regarded as being particularly legendary (Bonham's drumming at Houston, and the attendance record at Pontiac aside), I think that that video would quickly go the way of Seattle 77. People had been waiting decades for Seattle, sharing all of those brief song segments in varying quality, and then it finally got released and all people could talk about was how bad the performance was. Even for the more common videos out there, how often does the average person really watch Earls Court or Knebworth?
  8. I think of all of the various medleys, the number one of all time has to be "How Many More Times" from Memphis in 1970/04/17. All of the Japan 1971 medleys are great, and monsters as well. But the Memphis 70 version is completely unscripted and unexpected. HMMT from Bath 1970 has a decent one, but it honestly isn't as good as the HMMT from Memphis. The Long Tall Sally encore at Bath is a great version though. San Francisco 1969/04/27 is a legendary show, and both the As Long As I Have You and How Many More Times medleys are amazing. Blueberry Hill 1970/09/04 has a medley in both Whole Lotta Love and Communication Breakdown which are both stunners. 1972 has a great medley in Whole Lotta Love at Seattle 1972/06/19. 1973 was a more structured medley, but the ones from Europe from March are all great. Vienna 3/16, Munich 3/17, Berlin 3/19, Hamburg 3/21, Essen 3/22. For 1975, the last year of anything resembling a medley, I'd go with Whole Lotta Love from Long Beach 1975/03/12.
  9. So, to wrap it up....Jimmy in the 1970s was the equivalent of Tom Cruise in the 2000s. Both spent lots of money and time aligning themselves with a controversial (dare one say cultish) religion founded by guys who had created their form of spirituality by writing their own books and selling them. The books usually dealt with how to tap into one's inner power, so that you can get what you really want in life (how novel), and leaned on a supposed history of the world (which nobody but them knew about of course), which usually included heavy use of symbols, language, and rituals that were created/invented by using the surface aspects and aesthetics found in the culture of another people, and usually taken completely out of context and made to mean something else entirely. The culture that does get credited as being the "source" of the divinity or power of the religion tended to just so happen to be among a shortlist of topics which were currently popular in the author's home country at the time. In the case of Crowley, the translation of the Rosetta Stone and all of the English explorers digging in Egypt and bringing back all of those artifacts had put the topic into many households in the UK. No coincidence that Egypt "magic" and rituals were even showing up as plot devices in things like Sherlock Holmes stories. In the case of Hubbard, Science Fiction was all the rage in post WWII. Add in Roswell, alien sightings, UFOs, etc. Ultimately, Jimmy saying that his use of Talismans and Magick "worked" for him isn't any different from Tom Cruise crediting his success as an actor to Scientology, or Tim Tebow or Lionel Messi doing their gestures and thanking their version of "God" when they score for their sports teams. And yet, all of these successful, talented people who keep attributing their success to their version of God or their spirituality never seem to notice that there is usually someone just as successful as they are, who is usually thanking a completely different God. Hmmmm..... So Jimmy put silly symbols from the zodiac and random books on his pants and his amp and swore that they were the source of his great power. I wonder why then they didn't help the band get good reviews in the press? Was there a rule in the Crowley literature that said "The user who puts this symbol on their album cover will get great sales, amass vast wealth, and will be adored by millions. But as far as favorable press coverage goes...sorry." or was it more like "Do what thou wilt...or whom thou wilt...including 13 year olds".
  10. Complete 1969 Texas Pop. Large chunks of this exist, and circulate. If the complete film is out there, that would be great to see given that this was a great show and has a soundboard already available. Complete available footage for 1st night (7/27) at Madison Square Garden 1973. This was the best performance of the three, imo, and it's the only one we haven't really heard in its entirety from any collection of audio sources. It would be nice to have it alone, without being patched with the other nights, as in TSRTS and the DVD release. Bath 1970. I'm really only marginally interested in this film. The performance is good, and it's a historic event, but in all likelihood the footage is probably mediocre, and not even the complete show. The "Bath film" is waaaaay too overhyped. I'd much rather have the soundboard, if it's available in any good quality. Even the soundboard is way overhyped. Memphis 1970 a few months before, and especially Blueberry Hill and New York evening performance are all better than Bath. Montreux 1970 or 1971. If the venue did film the band in 1971, that would be a huge piece of history given the shape of Plant's vocals at the time. Not at all interested in anything else from 1975 or 1977, unless it's more footage from the 1977 LA run. If there is more from 6/23/77 that would be great. Pontiac or Houston proshot videos don't really interest me at all. Yes, the performances are both better than the Seattle vid we have, but not THAT much better, and the reality is that most people would watch it once and be done with it.
  11. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboy + http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial
  12. Include "everyone else" for what reason? This is a Zep forum, and the thread is about Page and Black Mountain/Waterside. How much broader does it need to be? Besides, in any case, I did include them, both those that did/didn't steal, by pointing out that what made many of those people different from Page was that they A ) Cleared themselves by crediting things properly, or B ) Didn't commit lifts which were note-for-note copies of the work of others. There is a difference between being inspired by a piece or genre of music, and copying the work of others. Play in a "rock" style using 4/4 time or specific instrumentation (i.e. guitar/drums/bass) vs lifting bars upon bars of someone else's lyrics or melodies and calling it your own. It's still backwards to use the "everyone was doing it" argument, because that just wasn't the case. Collectively the Beatles/Stones/Zep did not make "everyone". It seems that the only thing the passage of time has done in that regard is that it has made a lot of people complacent with the thieving habits of the 60's-70's. Your example of classical music actually reinforces this. Bach was a true original who had developed his own style over years and years of composition and refining his own technique. Mozart may have been inspired by Bach's music, but he never lifted a passage from one of Bach's works. He instead wrote some pieces of his own in a counterpoint style, which anyone who heard them could hear was "Bach-like". And he did this in the same way that many other composers wrote works "in the style of" or as a "variation of". If Beethoven directly lifted passages from Mozart, well then, guess who was the thief there? Stravinsky openly admitted how he took from others. Doesn't mean you can lump Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Stravinsky into one category and say that they were "all" thieves. Because some of them were, some of them weren't. There is a difference in being "inspired" by another artist, and lifting passages from their music.
  13. But, I think you are actually proving that they were in fact all thieves. And just because they all were doesn't excuse Page or Lennon/Hendrix/Clapton/Beck/Richards/Jagger and all the rest. It merely sums up that all of those famous artists were thieves in one way or another and that they shared a perception that since many of the bluesmen and rock and rollers before them were thieves that it somehow allowed them to be thieves as well. They were wrong in that regard, for the simple fact that many artists did not steal, before or after them. You can connect a dotted line to pretty much all of the influences between all of the British Blues revival groups in the 60's. For the most part, not an original idea in the whole lot. A bunch of British and American white kids imitating African Americans from the Delta, or the Rock and Rollers in the South. Singing with the dialect and the accents, and copying the subject matter. Somehow the shock value of the silliness of that kind of cultural appropriation has gotten completely lost in the decades since. Nevertheless, it's what those groups all managed to evolve into that began their own paths to developing a truly unique style for themselves. But straight across the board, for most of those groups, their origins were still as kids who unabashedly stole the music of the people they were imitating. Doesn't excuse any of them for the simple fact that their habits of thievery were actually unique to their generation, or that many of their peers were also stealing. Other groups weren't taking as liberally from each other as those groups were. And those that did cover other songs at least had sense and integrity enough to credit their sources. Yes, there is such a thing as original evolution of music. It just seems to have been eclipsed by that generation in the 60's and the 70's who were so complacent in copying their peers and those that came before them. But, it's not hard to see how that same spirit of copying bluesmen wouldn't also extend to copying others, such as Page's actions with Jansch and Graham. Because, if it's okay to copy the work of bluesmen, why not folkmen and instrumentalists too?
  14. Reputation? Geez, now comes the drama. No thanks, I'll pass this round. The OP's already gotten his answer in the form of plenty of examples I've posted. That you don't see it means nothing. And, exaggerated claims? Not a one. Running away when challenged? I don't even know what that even means. If anything, I'm responding to too many of your distracting posts. The examples and explanations are there. Any way you want to cut it, in the end you're either tonedeaf or you really do know very little about the pieces of music involved beyond being blinded by fanyboydom. Either way, it don't matter. Cue another round of meaningless hairsplitting.
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