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ms_zeppelin94

1977 Tour

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The Led Zeppelin "DVD" release sums it all up - no real footage of the '77 shows included.

Not for lack of film of the shows, just that Zep knew '77 was mostly crap.

Just try and watch the Seattle films....lackluster and going thru the motions.

Edited by nirvana

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The Led Zeppelin "DVD" release sums it all up - no real footage of the '77 shows included.

Not for lack of film of the shows, just that Zeo knew '77 was mostly crap.

Just try and watch the Seattle films....lackluster and going thru the motions.

I...don't think that's necessarily true, friend. More a matter of opinion. I for one enjoy what I've been able to hear/see of the '77 tour - heck, I'm wearing my tour '77 t-shirt right now! B)

Not to mention the fact that you mentioned the Seattle footage...which was near the end of an exhausting and odd tour, yet nonetheless had its moments of fire - in my opinion, that is. Watching the mayhem of "Bron-Yr-Aur Stomp" always makes me chuckle and smile...

Anywho, '77 is long past, so there's no need to get all bent out of shape over it.

Edited by Melcórë

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I...don't think that's necessarily true, friend. More a matter of opinion. I for one enjoy what I've been able to hear/see of the '77 tour - heck, I'm wearing my tour '77 t-shirt right now! B)

Not to mention the fact that you mentioned the Seattle footage...which was near the end of an exhausting and odd tour, yet nonetheless had its moments of fire - in my opinion, that is. Watching the mayhem of "Bron-Yr-Aur Stomp" always makes me chuckle and smile...

Anywho, '77 is long past, so there's no need to get all bent out of shape over it.

I'm not bent at all...really. Nothing but Love for Zep - even for the '77 tour. I guess when people (fans) love something so much they tend to close the eyes to the "not so pleasent" aspect of their desire.

Understandable.

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The Led Zeppelin "DVD" release sums it all up - no real footage of the '77 shows included.

Not for lack of film of the shows, just that Zep knew '77 was mostly crap.

Just try and watch the Seattle films....lackluster and going thru the motions.

I almost feel compelled to comment here....although there can be many professional reasons for "no real footage of the '77 shows"....this was without doubt a very very sensitive year for Robert and Jimmy, particularly Robert....I think the emotional side of '77 is also a reason for not including footage.....I certainly respect their decision likewise....

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I'm not bent at all...really. Nothing but Love for Zep - even for the '77 tour. I guess when people (fans) love something so much they tend to close the eyes to the "not so pleasent" aspect of their desire.

Understandable.

When I made that comment, I just meant in general - it was aimed at everyone, since people seem to come to blows (here figuratively) when they disagree about Zeppelin...

And don't get me wrong: Zeppelin had some very terrible moments during the '77 tour. But they also had (in my opinion) terrible moments during everyone of their tours. That doesn't stop me from enjoying it, all the same, and from enjoying Led Zeppelin at their worst more than any other artist/band, ever.

No disrespect, fellow fan. :)

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A more serious mood had set in during 1977, much different from the more light-hearted moments in earlier years, although John Bonham still had his sense of humor when I saw him in Los Angeles in 1977.

Robert Plant had engaged in a lengthy conversation with the audience letting everyone know that he would be back very soon, while Bonzo was dragging him off the stage still holding on to the microphone stand.

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When I made that comment, I just meant in general - it was aimed at everyone, since people seem to come to blows (here figuratively) when they disagree about Zeppelin...

And don't get me wrong: Zeppelin had some very terrible moments during the '77 tour. But they also had (in my opinion) terrible moments during everyone of their tours. That doesn't stop me from enjoying it, all the same, and from enjoying Led Zeppelin at their worst more than any other artist/band, ever.

No disrespect, fellow fan. :)

None taken. :rolleyes:

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For the most part it's fantasy? Really Kneb? As a very knowledgeable Zep fan I'm surprised to hear that from you.

Was the Tampa '77 riot due to t-storms and cancellation of the concert not fact?

The famous Boston riots to get tickets - windows smashed, people hurt, cars lit on fire...fantasy?

Jimmy almost losing his fingers due to a firecracker thrown and bouncing off Bonzo's kit - not real?

Jimmy passing out in Chicago during the show- imaginary?

Bonzo and Grant helping to bash a Bill Ghram bodyguard's face to jello - fake?

Cocaine, pain-killers, smack, Lori Maddox - etc - all made up I guess.

Yeah I totally stand by what I said. There is this crazy idea that they were being followed by some kind of spirtual black cloud and the whole tour was full of doom and gloom - nonsense. All the incidents that you mention happened, but they're all seperate and explainable - that is, unless you subscribe to the theory that the band were travelling under a veil of bad karma which culminated in Karac's death, as your previous post seems to suggest .

I don't. I find the idea sick and abhorrent, and as someone looking at the whole tour without that to cloud things, it can be seen for what it was- unfortunate events and all.

You don't think there were equal amounts of fun, happiness and excited fans on that tour? You don't think previous tours had involved "Cocaine, pain-killers, smack, Lori Maddox - etc"? Yet somehow this "curse of the 1977 Tour" idea is left to seep into the consciousness of fans as if the band were all spiralling to their doom. It's nonsense.

The 1977 tour was a tour, not some karmic round-a-bout.

And as to the idea that Robert was half-hearted about Zeppelin in later days - this was a bloke who had had to re-assess and re-value his life from the bottom up. He went from this

rp77b.jpg

to this

pk668.jpg

and back to this again

chest.jpg

- he made a CONSCIOUS decision to be that Rock God again when he had considered walking away. He had very, VERY good reasons to just say to Bonzo - 'Come on mate, lets you and me go off and do something else', to never see Jimmy or Jonesy again - but in the end it was HIM jollying Bonzo on through his occasional fears and worries, hell he even agreed to tour the US again - to this man, life was more precious than it had ever been and he had to justify every SECOND he spent away from his family to himself and to them. There is no way he would have been just pottering along in something that didn't matter to him - and all those like myself who watched him crying at Knebworth will be as incredulous as me to read someone say that at that point he had "Zero interest" in that band. Bullshit.

Edited by Knebby

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Drug abuse, pure and simple.

Anybody whos had any experience with drugs that has gone past the realms of 'fun' or 'recreational' will know how terribly destructive they are, not only to the individual, but to relationships too.

Seattle is a prime example, look at the state of Jimmy for the first few songs, he can barely stand let alone play well.

Im no expert on 77 like many on here but have been listening to the MSG shows and they are STUNNING, up there with LA imo. It just goes to prove that when Zep wanted to do it in 77 they could.

The set list and substance abuse point to over indulgence, no doubt, but i defy anyone to listen to No quarter from any of those New York shows and not be blown way.

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That's absolutely untrue. I don't know where you get that idea.

Oh I've just got that idea for the multitude of books, interviews, and magazines I've read over the years that have stated that after Karac died Robert, among other things:

-was upset no one other than Bonzo and Cole were with him at Karac's funeral

-they had to talk him into doing another album (ITTOD)

-they had to talk him into doing shows again (Kneb and then the 1980 tour)

-he refused to sing Stariway right up until they got onstage in 1979 and then wanted to do a reggae version of it because he was so fucking sick of singing it (and this is significant as this was their anthem)

While maybe I went over the top saying he had zero interest, I laugh at your claim that things were "healthy" in the Zeppelin camp in 1979-80...

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A more serious mood had set in during 1977, much different from the more light-hearted moments in earlier years, although John Bonham still had his sense of humor when I saw him in Los Angeles in 1977.

Robert Plant had engaged in a lengthy conversation with the audience letting everyone know that he would be back very soon, while Bonzo was dragging him off the stage still holding on to the microphone stand.

I agree with this, I've said it before, this tour just did not seem FUN. Even 1975 seemed fun...this one seemed so dark and serious and just HEAVY on the vibes-side...

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While maybe I went over the top saying he had zero interest, I laugh at your claim that things were "healthy" in the Zeppelin camp in 1979-80...

Where did Knebby claim things were all clean and healthy? She said Zeppelin was on fire in Knebworth and tight prior Bonzo's death. I personally love the performances from Knebworth and I think they wouldn't have planned the US tour if they were badly out of form. No denying there were pains and messy situations, but they kept trying to get back on the musical path.

And I think it's unfair to say Robert had zero interest, Knebby has summed things up very well in her post above.

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Oh I've just got that idea for the multitude of books, interviews, and magazines I've read over the years that have stated that after Karac died Robert, among other things:

-was upset no one other than Bonzo and Cole were with him at Karac's funeral

-they had to talk him into doing another album (ITTOD)

-they had to talk him into doing shows again (Kneb and then the 1980 tour)

-he refused to sing Stariway right up until they got onstage in 1979 and then wanted to do a reggae version of it because he was so fucking sick of singing it (and this is significant as this was their anthem)

NONE of these things support your claim that Robert had ZERO interest in Led Zeppelin in 1979-1980. They don't even come anywhere near it - in fact they support the idea that if he had all these reasons to be so pissed off with the band - WHY WOULD HE STILL BE WITH THEM IF HE DIDN'T CARE? That idea is simply ABSURD.

While maybe I went over the top saying he had zero interest, I laugh at your claim that things were "healthy" in the Zeppelin camp in 1979-80...

Having personally had a two hour+ conversation with John Bonham in March 1980, and countless subsequent conversations with surviving members, I 100% stand by my statement that prior to Bonzo's death things in the Zeppelin camp were *just about* as positive as they had ever been.

So I "laugh" in your general direction. B)

Edited by Knebby

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Ok fine, I'm wrong...1977-1980 Zep was the band at their absolute tip-top peak...my bad!

As I said, I love EVERY era of Zeppelin's career, but there is no denying this was the weakest and worst (as far as internal dynamics go) portion of it!

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Ok fine, I'm wrong...1977-1980 Zep was the band at their absolute tip-top peak...my bad!

I never ever said that. But have a nice weekend. :beer:

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I agree with this, I've said it before, this tour just did not seem FUN. Even 1975 seemed fun...this one seemed so dark and serious and just HEAVY on the vibes-side...

And the party atmosphere at the Hyatt had ended. The hallways were quiet and deserted. Everyone was gone.

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And the party atmosphere at the Hyatt had ended. The hallways were quiet and deserted. Everyone was gone.

Well, I can't speak for the Hyatt and I can't speak for the band but I THINK many of us long time fans had begun to move on after the 75 tour. There could be a thousand reasons why but for me personally, it was just a case of expanding musical tastes. Still loved Zeppelin but the mystique was gone. Probably due to a serious case of overkill of which I was totally responsible for :D Maybe if I'd been at the LA shows instead of that monstrositry called the Kingdome, my opinion of the 77 tour would have been different. Unfortunately, the show in Seattle was a huge disappointment for anyone who had seen the band previously and it was so sad to see Jimmy in the shape he was in. For anyone seeing the band for the first time,they may not have even noticed Jimmy's decline and it may have been the show of a lifetime for them, who knows ????. No doubt, the debate will continue.

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NONE of these things support your claim that Robert had ZERO interest in Led Zeppelin in 1979-1980. They don't even come anywhere near it - in fact they support the idea that if he had all these reasons to be so pissed off with the band - WHY WOULD HE STILL BE WITH THEM IF HE DIDN'T CARE? That idea is simply ABSURD.

Having personally had a two hour+ conversation with John Bonham in March 1980, and countless subsequent conversations with surviving members, I 100% stand by my statement that prior to Bonzo's death things in the Zeppelin camp were *just about* as positive as they had ever been.

So I "laugh" in your general direction. B)

Best not argue with some one who talked to bonzo in 1980

Some people are just fools. I think the only darkish 77 show was 7-24-77. It seems to me like they were having fun most of the tour..

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Best not argue with some one who talked to bonzo in 1980

I'm not trying to be a complete smart arse here, and I appreciate the support, but yes, DO argue with me. Spending a tiny amount of time with Bonzo doesn't make me an expert or his best friend, it just gives me another perspective, and one that I am ALWAYS willing to argue. I fight my corner. I welcome those who do the same.

Thanks for the post tho. I rarely listen to any bootlegs these days but 77 doesn't offend me in general. :beer:

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I'm not trying to be a complete smart arse here, and I appreciate the support, but yes, DO argue with me. Spending a tiny amount of time with Bonzo doesn't make me an expert or his best friend, it just gives me another perspective, and one that I am ALWAYS willing to argue. I fight my corner. I welcome those who do the same.

Thanks for the post tho. I rarely listen to any bootlegs these days but 77 doesn't offend me in general. :beer:

Na I have great respect for someone that talked actually personally bonzo. Really. You're being a smart ass at all. People have different opinion obviously but its very cool to have your input. But i really wonder what happened between the fantastic 6-27-77 gig to the 3rd leg (Seattle 7-17). Comparing photos it really looks like jimmy really declined in heath in just 2 1/2 weeks..and obviously his performance.

Edited by jimmy page66

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Now that's encouraging!

If you didn't know that about me by now after all your different personnas here you haven't been paying attention.

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Well, I can't speak for the Hyatt and I can't speak for the band but I THINK many of us long time fans had begun to move on after the 75 tour. There could be a thousand reasons why but for me personally, it was just a case of expanding musical tastes. Still loved Zeppelin but the mystique was gone. Probably due to a serious case of overkill of which I was totally responsible for :D Maybe if I'd been at the LA shows instead of that monstrositry called the Kingdome, my opinion of the 77 tour would have been different. Unfortunately, the show in Seattle was a huge disappointment for anyone who had seen the band previously and it was so sad to see Jimmy in the shape he was in. For anyone seeing the band for the first time,they may not have even noticed Jimmy's decline and it may have been the show of a lifetime for them, who knows ????. No doubt, the debate will continue.

One of my teachers was fond of saying that the only constant thing in life is change.

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Well, I can't speak for the Hyatt and I can't speak for the band but I THINK many of us long time fans had begun to move on after the 75 tour. There could be a thousand reasons why but for me personally, it was just a case of expanding musical tastes. Still loved Zeppelin but the mystique was gone. Probably due to a serious case of overkill of which I was totally responsible for :D Maybe if I'd been at the LA shows instead of that monstrositry called the Kingdome, my opinion of the 77 tour would have been different. Unfortunately, the show in Seattle was a huge disappointment for anyone who had seen the band previously and it was so sad to see Jimmy in the shape he was in. For anyone seeing the band for the first time,they may not have even noticed Jimmy's decline and it may have been the show of a lifetime for them, who knows ????. No doubt, the debate will continue.

No.

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The 1977 gets criticized unfairly because of the disastrous 3rd leg (Tempe, Seattle, Oakland). During the 1st 2 legs there were far more good shows than bad ones. Of course you can point to 1 bad show in Chicago or a cancellation in Tampa, or if you're Nirvana you can make up stories about a riot in Boston that didn't happen or performances of Dazed and Confused that don't exist.

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