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Not disagreeing with anyone. I'm putting it in the perspective of a thirteen year old being an ignorant fan. Nothing really substantial was ever written about "the history" of Zeppelin, before Hammer of the Gods. A not very good history at that.

If I gave the impression that Zeppelin needed rumors or mystories TO sell albums then I apologize. I have tried to say that the music has always spoke for itself.

Outside of Cream Magazine, Hit Parade, there was only an occasional article on them when I was ten years old. I was too young to see them, and by highschool they were done. So, I am trying to put it in perspective of a young ignorant fan. What else can you be at ten? That is how I started. Was it the castle rumor? Nope, it was Black Dog (at the time). The castle just made Jimmy cooler, more popular....more merchandise bought. That is why I say that Zeppelin capitalized on it. At the time, I do not know of a source where they dispelled the rumors. If you don't want a "general opinion" then please show me the fact.

You all said that the backmasking rumors really got going in 1981, I just started high school then. That is why I say you have to put it in the perspective of when you bought your first Album. (not cd)(not in 2009).

I learn alot from you all, and I do not mind being corrected.

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You're right, you do have to remind yourself of your first album - and mine had zero to do with mystery. It had everything to do with Trampled Underfoot, however.

As much as you want to argue for it, the only people who buy into the whole mystery/intrigue hoo-hah are the clueless fans who let themselves be bought into it. You believed it was Robert's daughter on HOTH, you believed Jimmy lived in a castle, etc. You let something like that dictate your decision to buy an album, yet none of it is true. All the rumours that circulated during their time were complete hearsay, imo, the rest (and worst) of them came after John died. You can either let yourself be bought into them, or you can decide which is more important - your theories of good marketing, or their music. I know which I prefer. And believe.

They were so fed up they didn't put their name on it. Did you miss the Jimmy quote? They didn't want all the hype surrounding them because they knew they were better than that.

And, it's only their 'best' album in hindsight - how are you supposed to know how good something is when you have no knowledge of it? It's not 'pure genius', because there was every chance the album would've flopped. From a sales standpoint it's risky as shit - they were leaving everything to chance and we got to decide.

I'll admit, that argument pretty much torpedoes my theory. Good Post.

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  • 2 weeks later...
So. Brings us down to the probable point of no return...



What got Jimmy started on all the Aleister Crowley stuff? SteveAJones, where art thou?

I don't think even Steve can give you an exact answer about this.

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I don't think even Steve can give you an exact answer about this.

It's probably a combination of culture and taste. It seemed a very 'in' thing to be interested in in the '60's. But it also appears that Jimmy was rather into it before that time, as well. He mentions reading a Crowley book (I think) twice to understand it when he was about 11. That's a pretty young age for such a heavy topic.

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I know it was a stupid question, thats why I edited it.

No, in fact it was a "million dollar" question :huh: One of his choices, maybe?... I really like the concept of "Variables" being packed and presented so neatly in one of the recent "Lost" epi.

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I understand that a changed Robert Plant who has taken to reading Nietzsche

on plane journeys has emerged since the accident. I know that you were ill

for about nine months prior to joining the Yardbirds and I've heard you're

supposed to have spent much of that time reading. Was that when your

interest in the occult began?

(Fifteen second pause) "My interest in the occult started when I was about


Do you agree that whereas Western society tends to see occult matters as a

very dark - a very black - thing it is, in fact, a very light and

enlightening thing?"

"Well, there has been a major revival, a spiritual revival, throughout the

world and it reflects all over the place. Not just within the West.

"And there's a great interest in the Celtic mysteries and the Dark Ages and

the areas where a lot of these truths were just erased for the sake of the

Church, you know. But I'm quite fascinated by these things."

So obviously the folkie Traditional English side of Zeppelin all emanates

from one logical area of interest, no?

"Yeah. Well, a man's a product of his environment. It depends how much he

wants to educate himself in that framework. You know, in relationship to his

craft. There should be no boundaries, so just carry on as far as you can and

do it."

Page, of course, is an ardent aficionado of occultist and magician, Aleister

Crowley (1875-1947). Indeed, the guitarist owns Equinox, an occult bookshop

situated off London's Kensington High Street, which has a large section

devoted to Crowley's works as well as having his birth chart pinned to one

wall. And, as already mentioned, Page spends most of his time on British

shores at the home that Crowley once owned, Boleskin House.

Not unexpectedly, such matters are beginning to arouse the interests of the

more sensational end of the British press. In fact, only a few weeks ago a

National Enquirer-like weekly magazine featured an aerial photograph of the

house on its cover along with details of collapsing staircases and the

appropriate 'Dark Man Of Pop' blurb about Page.

"Well," says the guitarist, "They should have gone into the history of the

house and Crowley would've come out like a shinning angel compared with what

else went on.

"I mean, it's had a history of suicides and con tricks. Plus the site of the

house is on the site of a church and a graveyard, and the church was burnt

down by an arsonist with the whole congregation in it. So the actual

foundations of the house are built on hallowed ground.

"But I'm not really interested in going on about Crowley in so much as, say,

Pete Townshend does about Meher Baba. I'm not interested in trying to turn

anybody on in any way whatsoever. You know, there are a thousand paths and

they can choose their own.

"All I know is that it's a system that works. (laughs) Although, of course,

there's not much point in following a system that doesn't work."

But what about the hassles you've had with Kenneth Anger? (Page wrote the

score for film-maker occultist, and author of Hollywood Babylon, Kenneth

Anger's imminent film, Lucifer Rising, but was turned down by Anger towards

the end of last year and replaced by none other than Mansonite Bobby

Beausoleil. Since then Anger has denounced Page on every possible occasion.)

"I think it's more the problems he's had with himself. All I know is that at

the end of the film I promised him - as I had before - the loan of a three

speed projector which makes the editing so much easier. I said to him 'well,

it's just going to be your own time invested'. And I also told him that he

must put the music on after he put the footage together so I was just

waiting for him to contact me, really. He had other music that I'd done

instead of the stuff that I'd delivered which he said he wanted to use.

Nevertheless, I still needed to hear from him. And I never heard anything."

Didn't he come down here and stick things onto the door of this record


"Oh, that was his curse. That was pathetic. His curse amounted to sending

letters to people. Silly letters saying 'Bugger off, Page' and this sort of


"How can you take that sort of thing seriously? (Sounds quite deeply disappo

inted). A man you had thought to be a genuine occultist and it turns out to

be just. theatre. It's a shame, really."

Although it's quite acceptable these days, do you wish your occult interests

weren't known about?

"I just don't want it rammed down people's throats as though I'm saying it's

the be-all and end-all and the only way you'll be able to put things

together. I'm not saying that at all. You might go off and study the

Gurdjieff system and be equally.

"But what I can relate to is Crowley's system of self-liberation. In which

repression is the greatest work of sin. It's like being in a job when you

want to be doing something else. That's the area where the true will should

come forward. And when you've discovered your true will you should just

forge ahead like a steam train. If you put all your energies into it there's

no doubt you'll succeed. Because that's your true will. It may take a little

while to work out what that is, but when you discover it, it's all there.

"You know, when you realize what it is you're supposed to be here for. I

mean, everyone's got a talent for something. Not necessarily artistic but

whatever you care to say. And it's just a process of self-liberation. I

mean, I just find his writings to be twentieth century. As a lot of the

others weren't.

"And there's really nothing more to say than that. I find him quite a

curious, highly enigmatic character. Consequently I enjoy my researches into

him. But it doesn't want to be blown out of all proportion, though, because

that would be. silly, you know. I'm just another artist, too."

Yeah, it's an interest in all things occult and, as you said, all things

English or, rather, of Albion. And that's just one area, right?


The Gig Interview: Jimmy Page

Chris Salewicz, GIG, May 1977

Read more: "LED ZEPPELIN :: ACHILLES LAST STAND" - http://www.led-zeppelin.org/reference/inde...0EqVtPsIG&A

this is a part of an interview that i wish that it could helps heartvreaker girl

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I would say that's avid interest rather than obsession IMO.


read the part that i put now of an interview in 1977 and it will be clearer

it is a part of a biggest fascination in albion and celtic stuff and spiritual issues in common

as jimmy said that there was a spiritual awake in the 70s all over the world

and i think this was a response to the non religious /non spiritual thinking of the 50s-60s..it was all about science ... only science

it was like a religion by then

read this also:

You live in Aleister Crowley's home. Crowley was a poet and magician at the turn of the century and was notorious for his Black Magic rites-Ed.l

PAGE: Yes, it was owned by Aleister Crowley. But there were two or three owners before Crowley moved into it. It was also a church that was burned to the ground with the congregation in it. And that's the site of the house. Strange: things have happened in that house that had nothing to do with Crowley. The bad vibes were already there. A man was beheaded there and sometimes you can hear his head rolling down. I haven't actually heard it, but a friend of mine, who is extremely straight and doesn't know anything about anything like that at all, heard it. He thought it was the cats bungling about. I wasn't there at the time, but he told the help, "Why don't you let the cats out at night? They make a terrible racket, rolling about in the halls." And they said, 'The cats are locked in a room every night." Then they told him the story of the house. So that sort of thing was there before Crowley got there. Of course, after Crowley there have been suicides, people carted off to mental hospitals...

And you have no contacts with any of the spirits?

PAGE: I didn't say that. I just said I didn't hear the head roll.

What's your attraction to the place?

PAGE: The unknown. I'm attracted by the unknown, but I take precautions. I don't go walking into things blind.

Do you feel safe in the house?

PAGE: Yeah. Well, all my houses are isolated. Many is the time I just stay home alone. I spend a lot of time near water. Crowley's house is in Loch Ness, Scotland. I have another house in Sussex, where I spend most of my time. It's quite near London. It's moated and terraces off into lakes. I mean, I could tell you things, but it might give people ideas. A few things have happened that would freak some people out, but I was surprised actually at how composed I was. I don't really want to go on about my personal beliefs or my involvement in magic. I'm not trying to do a Harrison or a Townshend. I'm not interested in turning anybody on to anybody that I'm turned on to .. . if people want to find things, they find them themselves. I'm a firm believer in that.

You talk of this "race against time," Jimmy. Where do you think you'll be at 40?

PAGE: I don't know whether I'll reach 40. I don't know whether I'll reach 35. I can't be sure about that. I'm bloody serious. I am very serious I didn't think I'd make 30.

Why not ?

PAGE: I just had this fear. Not fear of dying, but just... wait a minute, let's get this right. I just felt that. .. I wouldn't reach 30. That's all there was to it. It was something in me, something inbred. I'm over 30 now, but I didn't expect to be here. I wasn't having nightmares about it, but . . . I'm not afraid of death. That is the greatest mystery of all. That'll be it, that one. But it's all a race against time. You never know what can happen. Like breaking my finger. I could have broken my whole hand and been out of action for two years.

Read more: "LED ZEPPELIN :: ACHILLES LAST STAND" - http://www.led-zeppelin.org/reference/inde...0EqdAiTP0&A

i hope that my participation at this topic helped somewhat


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A little help Zoso Man ?

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." "Although I don't agree with everything he said he was a visionary. I don't particularly want to go into it because it's a personal thing and isn't in relation to anything I do as a musician. Apart from that I've employed his system in my day to day life. ~ Jimmy Page

Nevertheless, both B.P. Fallon and Pamela Des Barres both believe Page was sincere in his interests. "I think Jimmy really believed the Crowley stuff," says Des Barre. "He gleaned a lot from it. It helped create his aura and the mystique . Sure there was an element of play-acting, flapping around those big halls in Crowley's cape. But you don't buy someone's Castle [sic] if you're just fucking around. Besides, he's a notorious tight wad, he had to be totally into something to pay for it !"

"A lot of the mystical stuff was a pose," says Pamela Des Barres. "The myth was self created to make themselves look intriguing." It certainly worked. Perhaps, though, it's best to defer to Robert Plant for the final word. As the singer told Q magazine : "It's all crap that devil stuff, but the less you said to people the more they would speculate. And we never said fuck-all to anybody.

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