marolyn Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 In case you had any doubts.... http://freep.com/article/20090412/NEWS07/9...+rescue+hostage Obama twice approved force to rescue hostage By JENNIFER LOVEN and PHILIP ELLIOTT • Associated Press Writers • April 12, 2009 WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama twice authorized the military to rescue a U.S. captain held by Somali pirates and whose life appeared to be at risk, administration official said hours after today’s rescue. The Defense Department twice asked Obama for permission to use military force to rescue Capt. Richard Phillips from a lifeboat off the Somali coast, most recently late Friday evening. On Saturday morning, Obama signed off on the Pentagon’s request, as he had a day earlier, said officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. ...what i wonder is "why twice?"...isn't once good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bong-Man Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 ...what i wonder is "why twice?"...isn't once good enough? A senior administration official said the president’s order authorized force for a group of military assets that arrived at the scene late last week. When more resources arrived, Obama added them to a roster of military personnel allowed to engage militarily with the Somali pirates. A change of plans based on additional resources arriving at the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 ...what i wonder is "why twice?"...isn't once good enough? My ex wife used to tell me that all the time...then she just abandoned ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bong-Man Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 My ex wife used to tell me that all the time...then she just abandoned ship ...and you've been the captain of the ship ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 ...and you've been the captain of the ship ever since. But unfortunately under siege by swashbuckling lawyers ever since Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hartman Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 But unfortunately under siege by swashbuckling lawyers ever since Walk the plank wench...arrrggggg. You deserve someone better DZL.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrum Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 "We have to be perfect in our execution." Payback for the Blackhawk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Somali pirate suspect arrives in New York City Sole survivor of hostage-taking could face first U.S. piracy trial in a century msnbc.msn.com/id/30313755 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmie ray Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Yeah, giving someone from a starving and brutal area good meals, shelter, education, and fame is really going to deter the rest of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrum Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Yeah, giving someone from a starving and brutal area good meals, shelter, education, and fame is really going to deter the rest of them... 'Somali-Dog Millionaire' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Ron Kuby, a New York-based civil rights lawyer, said he has been in discussions about forming a legal team to represent the Somali suspect. "I think in this particular case, there's a grave question as to whether America was in violation of principles of truce in warfare on the high seas," said Kuby. "This man seemed to come onto the Bainbridge under a flag of truce to negotiate. He was then captured. There is a question whether he is lawfully in American custody and serious questions as to whether he can be prosecuted because of his age." Hi All, I hope all the flagwavers will remember this, it seems that they, the Americia Government and Armed forces has learnt nothing since the days of their negotiations with the Red Indians. Four men, three exexuted and one captured while all under a flag of truce, only difference is that unlike Red Indians these undesirables can and will bite back. I hope all you flag wavers show the same excitement and joy when future hostages or American Miliatry Personel are treated in the same way, just as they have been in Iraq, killed, tortured and multilated. "What you sow, so shall you reap" Regards, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I was under the impression that in this case the Americans acted in self-defense and reasonable defense of others. Did I miss something? I would not call this an execution. I understand it was a kill or be killed situation. Were the Americans expected to simply allow those pirates armed with AK-47s to kill Captain Phillips? Americans learned something from the Blackhawk incident. You cannot afford to mess around in Somalia. I am not impressed by blind hatred and prejudice against Americans. If John Paul Jones, Jimmy Page or Robert Plant had been on that ship and captured by pirates, I wonder if people would have reacted with the same prejudice as they do toward Americans. It is really a shame that people use the official Led Zeppelin site to make unnecessarily inflammatory statements about Americans. Somali pirate arrives in New York Court World's Navies Hit Back At Somali Pirates U.S. forces moved to rescue Phillips after seeing him in imminent danger on the lifeboat, Gortney said. A fourth pirate was negotiating Phillips' fate aboard the nearby USS Bainbridge. "While working through the negotiations process tonight, the on-scene commander from the Bainbridge made the decision that the captain's life was in immediate danger, and the three pirates were killed," Gortney said. "The pirate who surrendered earlier today is being treated humanely; his counterparts who continued to fight paid with their lives." The three pirates, who were armed with AK-47 rifles, were killed by shooters who were aboard the Bainbridge, Gortney said. cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/12/somalia.pirates/ Phillips was believed to be trying to swim to the USS Bainbridge, which is in communication with the four gunmen holding Phillips in the 28-foot boat off Somalia's coast, the official said. Some of the kidnappers jumped into the water, recaptured Phillips, and returned him to the lifeboat, according to the official. Watch what happened when captain tried to escape » The pirates fired shots, the military official said, but had no further details. A Defense Department official told CNN that Phillips appeared to be tied up by the pirates after the escape attempt. cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/10/somalia.u.s.ship/#cnnSTCText Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchzep27 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 water canons, or massive sonic waves.... or a quick phone call to the navy. ahh the old days, where you would have to defend yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Payback for the Blackhawk! I would not consider it payback. It's common sense to fight for your life in a situation like that. Those people could have been you or me. Mera Piya Ghar Aaya - Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Ron Kuby, a New York-based civil rights lawyer, said Well I read this far and then anything rational went out the window sorry big d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchzep27 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 i want to know who pays the kind hearted ssouls who help big boats off sand bars....is that not the way of the water, to help each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmie ray Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I think in this particular case, there's a grave question as to whether America was in violation of principles of truce in warfare on the high seas Many of the ships being attacked are carrying relief supplies for this area, and are unarmed (neither of which I endorse). The so-called pirates are nothing more than desperate henchmen, so none of these elements seem to reflect a situation where proper warfare protocol takes place. Maybe any lawyers that supposedly want to help these people should be brought over there, to sit with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Well I read this far and then anything rational went out the window sorry big d Hi 'Dzldoc' No need to be sorry, my skins thicker than most, i just wanted to point out a few facts to those who cant see things out of the "Box" so to speak. Because its The Americian Military that have behaved in such a way, i dont think that many Americans are able to see this for what it is, "Assaination". You cant in this day and age go around "Gun Ho" and treat people as you did before TV and the Internet, now the rest of the world have seen how your Goverment have behaved and will react in their own way. This "Assaination" will probably only help to make matters worse, resulting in more Piracy and more hostage taking, you seem to have won a minor battle in a much bigger war. While i am totally with your Government in stopping Piracy, it needs to be done within International Law, and for many years now your country has flouted International Law, to such an extent that to almost everyone else in the world you appear as "The Evil Empire" rather than "The Rebel Alliance". Your Government needs a new stratergy, its acts like a world Police force, and like a Police force it gets Policeing wrong sometimes, this is such a time, and in the end by bad Policeing you will only provoke more people to take the law in to their own hands and dish out their own justice. I hope i have cleared up any missunderstanding you may have had and you are now able to view my post more objectionably. Regards, Danny PS. Keep waving the flag, if its the right one that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Many of the ships being attacked are carrying relief supplies for this area, and are unarmed (neither of which I endorse). The so-called pirates are nothing more than desperate henchmen, so none of these elements seem to reflect a situation where proper warfare protocol takes place. Maybe any lawyers that supposedly want to help these people should be brought over there, to sit with them? Hi 'jimmie ray' I agree with you 99%, but you dont kill people under a flag of truce, thats what the bad side do, you will loose all credability in the world by acting like that, showing people you cant be trusted. If you dont obey "proper warfare protocol" then why should the other side? I know that they probably wont, but thats no need for you to behave in a dispicable way as well. Try seeing it fron the other side for once, you might surprise yourself, Pirates were mostly better people that the Countries that they were at war with, "Luke Sykwalker" was a Pirate as far as the "Evil Empire" was concerned. Regards, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 It's not assassination, it is reasonable defense of others. They went there to rescue the captain because he was in danger for his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 It's not assassination, it is reasonable defense of others. They went there to rescue the captain because he was in danger for his life. Hi 'eternal light' While i dont defend Piracy, i also dont defend assassination either, and as the Pirates were under a flag of truce then they were killed illegaly, what ever way you try to cut it, it was murder. Whats the problem with that, thats the way the world sees it, when the talking is over then you act, but not while your still talking. Regards, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 This "Assaination" will probably only help to make matters worse, resulting in more Piracy and more hostage taking, you seem to have won a minor battle in a much bigger war. You're mistaking piracy for terrorism. People become terrorists (in the Middle East and Africa anyways) because they believe in hurting the West and nothing will stop. People become pirates because it can be a lucrative business. In other words, if pirating stops making them money, there is no need to be a pirate anymore. They may still be criminals on the street, but they'll stop pirating. See, you can't really destroy terrorism as more and mroe people will join it for every terrorist you kill. Pirates are completely different. You take enough out, no ones going to be a pirate anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Hi 'eternal light' While i dont defend Piracy, i also dont defend assassination either, and as the Pirates were under a flag of truce then they were killed illegaly, what ever way you try to cut it, it was murder. Whats the problem with that, thats the way the world sees it, when the talking is over then you act, but not while your still talking. Regards, Danny So then maybe the US Navy should have just let the pirates kill the captain, who was at the time considered to be in imminent danger for his own life, and be done with it because you perhaps mistakenly think they were under a flag of truce. Shots had been fired by the pirates at the time the captain escaped into the water, and the pirates dragged him out of the water and tied him up. Your idea of truce I guess. In other words, the Navy thought the pirates were going to kill the captain if they did not rescue him quickly. The world was not there to rescue the captain from captivity, the U.S. Navy was. Thankfully, they did their job. Maybe if the pirates would stop kidnapping people and abide by the law in the first place this type of situation would not occur. Americans are not the only ones who must abide by the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 You're mistaking piracy for terrorism. People become terrorists (in the Middle East and Africa anyways) because they believe in hurting the West and nothing will stop. People become pirates because it can be a lucrative business. In other words, if pirating stops making them money, there is no need to be a pirate anymore. They may still be criminals on the street, but they'll stop pirating. See, you can't really destroy terrorism as more and mroe people will join it for every terrorist you kill. Pirates are completely different. You take enough out, no ones going to be a pirate anymore. Hi wannabe, nice to see you, People are not paying enough attention to my post, my concern is the way the Pirates were taken out, under a flag of truce, not a good way to go about business in my opinion. The rest, i agree with. Buy the way, did you read the link at the beginning about why these people are turning piracy in the first place, i did and now i take a completely different stance on it, how about you. Regards, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I suppose that from some points of view it would have been better to just let the captain suffer and die in Somalia like the Blackhawk victims, but fortunately the U.S. Navy saw it differently. We are not going to abandon our people on the African coast and we will find a way to establish law where there is none, so it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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