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How would you place Led Zeppelin into a larger context of popular music?


jhart

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Wow! Putting Led Zeppelin in one category, I'd have to say Blues and Rock and Roll (1950's) with a touch of Flower Power (60's style). Well darn, I just couldn't do it, I can't put them in just one large musical category.

If you want to only talk about the guitar progressions and the solo's, you have to say the old Country Blues styles of the 1920's and 1930's fit in well (for most of there work).

If you want to talk about the words, that's something else all together, there's way to much to relate for the words.

The drums are hard hitting shuffle beat's with some 1930's & 1940's type Jazz & 1950's Rock and Roll to boot.

The bass guitar and key's sound both dark melodic and the rock sounds of the late 1960's.

The singing style is a combo of old Country Blues and the later City Blues.

That's how I see it but tap me on the shoulder if I (and I'm sure I have) left anything out.

Indian/North African :)

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Led Zeppelin were a Hard Rock band, not a Heavy Metal band, everyone would agree with that i think. They were a huge infuence in the Heavy metal mouvement, i think everyone will agree with that too. The fact is that Heavy Metal as every form of art it's in constant evolution, and that from the very begining. You can not state a band that created everything, be cause it was a progresive process of construction. Same Thing with rock evolving from the Blues, rock&roll, etc. For me Led Zeppelin is THE group that defines better what rock should be, it's like the final piece of the main puzzle. In that sense Zep has that hard rock edge, along with the acoustic, and more bluesy feel, but is that hard rock freaking loud edge that influences and kickstart the heavy metal movement. When youn listen to Comunication Breakdown....ohhh man...that's fucking proto heavy metal....as My Generation from The Who is proto Punk Rock. The downpicking Riff from Jimmy it's a pure heavy metal riff, Bob's pitching high vocals, and bonzo's pounding bass drum kicking...it's hard, it's galloping...it's heavy. Personally i think it's the fist heavy metal song...but not made from a heavy metal group anyway.

Then you have Black Sabath, who are in fact the Biggest influence in METAL in general,but i don't consider them a metal band at all....Sabbath sound still has a Hard Rock edge, but has a huge evolution into a more dark and loud sound.

In that sense, Zep, Sabbath, Purple, AC/DC are all hard groups that are a big part in that artistic evolution, but for me the final piece in heavy metal...as Zep was for Hard Rock, is Judas Priest with the "Sad Wings Of Destiny Album", in music, lyrical content, Look, attitude...there you have the final piece in the Heavy Metal puzzle.

To finish, the Legacy of Zeppelin in modern music it's bigger than the heavy metal aspects of their music, in a strict artistic way, they touched a lot of tryles and melted in a unique way, Blues, Rock, Folk, Funk, Heavy Metal, they defined the concept of album band making more than a snigle band making, they set new standards to live performances, taking the "jam" to something never seen before and since. But in other aspects far beyond the artistic they were really influencial... they and Peter Grant set new standards for the place of the artist in the business was, winning the battle over promotors, and in the "rocker syle of life on the road" they were the main shit at that time, and still.

Sorry for mi terrible Enlish folks!

Watch Heavy; the history of metal. No one would agree with you.

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I would say yes. I think Led Zeppelin and few other bands of that time are pioneers of heavy metal. Black Sabbath are definitely creators and inventors of heavy metal, but Led Zeppelin shaped heavy metal too.

I can't say what is the first heavy metal song right now, but I think one of the first is definitely "Helter Skelter" by The Beatles.

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I would say yes. I think Led Zeppelin and few other bands of that time are pioneers of heavy metal. Black Sabbath are definitely creators and inventors of heavy metal, but Led Zeppelin shaped heavy metal too.

I can't say what is the first heavy metal song right now, but I think one of the first is definitely "Helter Skelter" by The Beatles.

I know a couple of other people have made that statement about Helter Skelter but I just don't see it as early heavy metal at all. I think it was harder sounding for the Beatles within the context of what they had created at that point but in relation to metal, I don't hear it.

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As far as playing what you feel and not to the times, that goes back to Jazz/Blues and is how Robert Plant seems to feel about playing/writing music as well. And being that Page started out playing "Skiffle" tunes as a teenager, the old saying.. "Mama Don't Allow No Guitar Playing Around Here" would have me think that he two doesn't like the everyday norm as well.

As far as popularity, all of Zeppelin's albums made the top 10 chart's here in the states and they did set some impressive numbers at the box office to.

Sabbath had 1 album in the US top ten charts but, they did do better with the reunion stuff putting 1 single in the #3 spot in 1998. Ozzy did better with a few top ten album's and singles, plus the ever popular Oz-Fest show's keep going and re-going.

The Beatles on the other hand could do no wrong on the chats, anywhere! Yellow Submarine was the only one to just crack the top 5, all the others went to #1.

Times where different in the Beatles day, if you sold out a show it was a huge thing! Not so any more or even in the few years following the Beatles that Led Zeppelin and the others came to power.

I think that the first Metal band (to make it big) was Judas Priest, they had the look (while not at first), the stage power, two guitars (that can play just as good as one another) and the sound that really echoed to the Metal world to come alive. They where not singing the Blues or calling to the hippies to change the world or doing slow, long drawn out, transitive delusive, melodic, undertones, there song's where full of fast riff driven music for the guitar. Yes "The Priest" and then later Iron Maiden started Metal but, that does not mean that bands like Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and Black Sabbath didn't have a strong impact on them before they made it to the big time.

Myself, I'm more into Led Zeppelin than Priest or Maiden (but I do listen to them both) and they are clearly very different.

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and the debate goes on and on and on and on................

who was the creator of heavy metal?

I don't think you can pinpoint an exact date. Everyone has there own take on it.

I've heard Blue Cheer, Steppenwolf, Iron Butterfly, Vanilla Fudge mentioned, and all are no doubt, early pioneers, as is Led Zeppelin, but I have to agree with the popular concensus that Black Sabbath are the real "first true heavy metal band" and are the closest to what became the accepted genre a decade later.

I would not be a true Detroiter if I didn't put in a plug for the MC5, though the punks would disagree, as one of the first heavy metalers. They certainly had the look with the leather jackets, bare chests and Fred "Sonic" Smith's (RIP) gunbelt. They were truly "bad boys" and i'm blessed for having seen them play live on stage on a number of occasions.

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I know a couple of other people have made that statement about Helter Skelter but I just don't see it as early heavy metal at all. I think it was harder sounding for the Beatles within the context of what they had created at that point but in relation to metal, I don't hear it.

It was different and harder/heavier sounding for The Beatles, but in that time it was pretty heavy. I still think that it's one of the first songs that helped to create heavy metal. Not the first one, but one of the first songs.

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I think it's specifically the riff to You Really Got Me that can be described as the first example of heavy metal or heavy riff, not necessarily the band or the whole song itself. It is a pretty loud crunching riff for the time.

I don't think one can specifically pinpoint the exact start of heavy metal though. Music was just gradually getting louder and heavier throughout the sixties with many bands contributing. I think Led Zeppelin added the final ingredient with Robert Plant's high-pitched wailing vocals and with their music having special emphasis on riffs. This helped kick-start the genre even though they were never heavy metal themselves. By 1970 Deep Purple had turned heavy due to the influence of Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath released their first album. And it is Black Sabbath that I would describe as the first fully fledged heavy metal band.

I have to agree with this.

I think "You Really Got Me" is one of the first songs with sound and elements of heavy metal. It is definitely because of the main riff. Back in those years it was so heavy and it still is. Another song by The Kinks that comes to my mind is "All Day And All Of The Night". Not so good as "You Really Got Me" but the song is very heavy. The riff is so heavy. Both are love songs but they are so mad and heavy.

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I'm not saying anything new here, but I put LZ into my "blues based rock" category.. I don't consider them Heavy Metal. I agree that their sound and/or style (along with bands such as Black Sabbath/Blue Cheer etc) spawned what would later become Heavy Metal, but they aren't in that category, at least not for me.

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Watch Heavy; the history of metal. No one would agree with you.

I have that documentary, and they didn't say that Led Zeppelin were metal. They talked a bit about how their sound came to influence what heavy metal was, the same as Black Sabbath. I don't think anyone in their right mind would call Led Zeppelin a metal group.

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Honestly, it would be unfair to pigeonhole Zep into ANY category. While they were predominately hard rock, they could - and DID play a number of styles. All done well beyond expectations. (well, except reggae. :lol: )

Metal? Shit no. Bad analogy there. Metal is generally one-dimensional plodding away at max volume while some banshee screams about being Satan, banging chicks or some silly shit like that. Zep were so far above that it boggles the mind.

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When considering their live performances, especially in the early years I think you have to consider LZ metal. When listening to those early boots and reading the reviews of those shows, they were pure power and volume. As they progressed we begin to see the other shades that separate them from what metal would become but you would be hard pressed to get anyone who witnessed them from that era to say that they weren't metal. Remember "metal" back then is certainly not what we know metal to be these days.

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When considering their live performances, especially in the early years I think you have to consider LZ metal. When listening to those early boots and reading the reviews of those shows, they were pure power and volume. As they progressed we begin to see the other shades that separate them from what metal would become but you would be hard pressed to get anyone who witnessed them from that era to say that they weren't metal. Remember "metal" back then is certainly not what we know metal to be these days.

I witnessed them in that era--they weren't metal. Nobody I knew would have placed them in that category, either, even if we'd had a name for it at the time. OK, they were loud. That doesn't mean they weren't capable even then of the kinds of subtleties metal bands sadly never dream of.

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Led Zeppelin wasn't a band about heavy metal or pure mindless brutality like Black Sabbath or Deep Purple - it was about dynamics.

Mindless brutality like this?:

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What did Led Zeppelin contribute to heavy metal? They spawned legions of mindless crap bands who had absolutely no idea what they were about.

Led Zeppelin wasn't a band about heavy metal or pure mindless brutality like Black Sabbath or Deep Purple - it was about dynamics. William Burroughs had it completely spot on when he compared LZ to the Master Musicians of Jajouka.

If you're looking into what LZ contributed to music, look towards Sufi music instead of Western drivel. You'll find more answers there.

I don't find Western music to be "drivel". I'm not snobby about what I listen to.

And sweeping away Purple and Sabbath as just "mindless brutality" proves you don't know much about what you're being snobby about.

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As far as popularity, all of Zeppelin's albums made the top 10 chart's here in the states and they did set some impressive numbers at the box office to.

The Beatles on the other hand could do no wrong on the chats, anywhere! Yellow Submarine was the only one to just crack the top 5, all the others went to #1.

I think you are doing Zeppelin a slight disservice here. While they were a band, all of Zeppelin's albums reached either number 1 or number 2 in the U.S with the exception of their debut, which still reached the top 10.

Out of their 9 albums released from '69 to '79, 6 of them went to number 1 and 2 went to number 2. Led Zep IV (which only reached number 2) was their biggest seller ever.

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I think you are doing Zeppelin a slight disservice here. While they were a band, all of Zeppelin's albums reached either number 1 or number 2 in the U.S with the exception of their debut, which still reached the top 10.

Out of their 9 albums released from '69 to '79, 6 of them went to number 1 and 2 went to number 2. Led Zep IV (which only reached number 2) was their biggest seller ever.

Not to mention where they charted isn't a measure of their talent.

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Honestly, it would be unfair to pigeonhole Zep into ANY category. While they were predominately hard rock, they could - and DID play a number of styles. All done well beyond expectations. (well, except reggae. :lol: )

Metal? Shit no. Bad analogy there. Metal is generally one-dimensional plodding away at max volume while some banshee screams about being Satan, banging chicks or some silly shit like that. Zep were so far above that it boggles the mind.

Ever heard "Fool In The Rain"? On Coda? Very much an "Island" sound. And the drums have some of that "Raggae" stop time/shuffle beat to them!

Bonzolikedrumer

I spell it like that because I like it that way.

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